Christianity

[manitou]

20 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

problem with that is that "God" or Source is non-evolving while souls are evolving or devolving,  DNA is also evolving or devolving.  I don't think grandiose sounding, above it all thinking overrides Dharma, karma, and ego which have to be resolved before enlightenment is at and stays at "God" being.  (which does not mean visits to same can not be made, aka as "coming and going".  Btw. I'd say some of your previous posts, those of others and mine over time which is part of the 3d world demonstrate a process of evolution that we've all been gong through.  (regardless of or because of a non-evolutionary Source)

 

 

Problem is you're a lot more intelligent than I am.  I honestly don't quite understand what you said here.

 

Posit:  God is indeed evolving.  It evolves through the DNA of humans, plants, animals.  It's all one.  Your premise is based on the idea of linear time, and linear time is an illusion, as previously discussed.

And I think you're absolutely right an the need for removal of ego concerns before enlightenment.  It's a really tough process, and very few are actually willing to go through it.  A process where you go back through your entire life and look for your f-ups, and make amends to those folks.  It's a humiliating process, no fun whatsoever.  But OMG, a very enlightening process.  God-being, as you say.

 

And, as it turns out, that is how God manifests.  Through us.  We're It.

 

 

 

Edited October 1 by manitou

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

 

Yes! Looking for what is NOT impermanent is the way to go (in Buddhism anyway). The short answer is "emptiness", which can be pointed out in any tradition. 

 

righto, in Hinduism it is the indestructible Self which is not of any compounded aggregates...

[Thrice Daily]

5 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Problem is you're a lot more intelligent than I am.  I honestly don't quite understand what you said here.

 

Posit:  God is indeed evolving.  It evolves through the DNA of humans, plants, animals.  It's all one.  Your premise is based on the idea of linear time, and linear time is an illusion, as previously discussed.

And I think you're absolutely right an the need for removal of ego concerns before enlightenment.  It's a really tough process, and very few are actually willing to go through it.  A process where you go back through your entire life and look for your f-ups, and make amends to those folks.  It's a humiliating process, no fun whatsoever.  But OMG, a very enlightening process.  God-being, as you say.

 

And, as it turns out, that is how God manifests.  Through us.  We're It.

 

 

 

Maybe, I like this idea put forward in the book, "Conversations with God" where God basically had to create everything, so there were separate bits not just one thing, that way it could get to know itself, through us knowing self, through experience...

[manitou]

2 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Maybe, I like this idea put forward in the book, "Conversations with God" where God basically had to create everything, so there were separate bits not just one thing, that way it could get to know itself, through us knowing self, through experience...

 

 

I agree, Thrice.  I think it is just an entity getting to know itself.  Why?  Eh.

[Thrice Daily]

Just now, manitou said:

 

 

I agree, Thrice.  I think it is just an entity getting to know itself.  Why?  Eh.

Manitou, If there were an easy answer, sheesh... there would be no need to be here maybe ,, gosh,

 

no music , no poetry, no forum, no Love. Personally I like the Love thing, and infinite Grace.

 

That's my favourite answer why so far, love and grace. I got a daughter I think I understand to some degree what God might be getting at.

 

I'm an optimistic at heart, go life, sort of person, are you? Sure is a trip isn't it?  

 

Like to try to be thankful of everything and say thanks each day, far less bumpy

[old3bob]

27 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Problem is you're a lot more intelligent than I am.  I honestly don't quite understand what you said here.

 

Posit:  God is indeed evolving.  It evolves through the DNA of humans, plants, animals.  It's all one.  Your premise is based on the idea of linear time, and linear time is an illusion, as previously discussed.

And I think you're absolutely right an the need for removal of ego concerns before enlightenment.  It's a really tough process, and very few are actually willing to go through it.  A process where you go back through your entire life and look for your f-ups, and make amends to those folks.  It's a humiliating process, no fun whatsoever.  But OMG, a very enlightening process.  God-being, as you say.

 

And, as it turns out, that is how God manifests.  Through us.  We're It.

 

 

I'd agree that God's manifestations as implied in many schools are evolving or devolving,  but if God or the Source was tied to or conditional to evolution (which btw can only take place in time and space, whether very subtle and far beyond human constructs of time and space or gross and more limiting constructs of time and space) then it could also devolve and we could end up SOL!  I believe that this is implied in Taoism with sayings like "The 10,000" that are manifestations of the Great unchanging Tao.  (which goes far and returns to paraphrase part of chapter 25 in the T.T.C.   (and I'd include that in a way it never really left which mind can not really wrap its head around!)

Edited October 1 by old3bob

[Thrice Daily]

Love Man

[Thrice Daily]

"Love Man"

 

The main reason I say that is, re Taoism,  I feel love is our natural state, we could almost say its what created us, i.e. Mom and Dad. Perhaps that is something to so with it... 

 

The essence of what you are saying with Evolution/Devolution can very clearly be seen as a microcosm of the whole in our own bodies. The Organs, their shapes, their positions, temperatures, all affecting and being affected by the muscles, tendons, bones. 

 

Life can make us Depressed, Fearful, Angry, Sad, Unbalanced. (this for me is a personal devolution and of course will be reflected in the internal organs)

 

So if we improve our organs and/or emotional life,, I feel we can evolve, at least that's what I think, Courage, Calmness, Kindness, Happiness, Stability. (this for me is not only evolving, but returning to a balance, to a more natural state)

 

If we are at ease internally and the organs function better and longer I think this is a good indicator we move in the right direction. 

 

Its a constant fight dark and light that of course goes way beyond and before the scope of what I'm saying here. 

 

Still what is the natural healthy state of the body? And what tends to emerge, Virtue? and same the other way around, healthy state emerges from virtue.

 

So its a good checkpoint system that we are heading in the right direction.

 

For me so far  this is what I see in Taoist texts, this is where the wisdom is, the rest is folly. Fun, Skills, Ego, all good stuff too, but Virtue Trumps it all, In My Opinion... Or in a single word, Love, I could be wrong though and would like to read contrary opinions on

evolution/devolution, towards/away from wherever it is we came from... Interesting Idea... Reminds me about about the contemplation of big bang, big crunch...

 

Its a mega slow burner.

Edited October 1 by Thrice Daily

[Thrice Daily]

10 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Yes! Looking for what is NOT impermanent is the way to go (in Buddhism anyway). The short answer is "emptiness", which can be pointed out in any tradition. 

Yeah man, I think I once read that if an atom was the size of a cathedral. An electron, (or neutron or proton can’t remember) would be about the size of a small coin whizzing around the perimeter.

 

The rest is (erm) empty space.

 

Allegedly. 
 

Incredible no? Im hoping more people wake up to the infinite potential we hold in our selves. 
 

To wake up and connect with existence/god by turning inwards.

 

So much of modern life, especially food and water is designed to do the contrary isn’t it. Even toothpaste , ‘Himalaya Toothpaste’ Brand all the way. I gotta get some more actually
 

I view this forum as a true meeting place of teachers. Whether formally teaching or not. The spirit of folk here and the minds on here mostly appear to be great guides. 

Who have no doubt paid their dues and navigated many a storm to get to where they are in their practices.

 

And for newbies too, it’s a treasure trove of do’s and don’ts, humbling stuff on here.
 

The knowledge on this forum imo is the kind of knowledge best suited to guide humanity on both the most basic, and the most advanced levels. 
 

The kind of folk I’m want on humanities side if we ever had to start over. 
 

Devolution is in many respects an actual thing isn’t it @old3bob (in a literal and very obvious sense outwardly in the world education, politics, the signs are everywhere) and with things as they are currently (1984ish) we could be looking at a lot more (devolution that is) 

 

In the darkest times though as fire has taught us. It only takes 1 of us to keep a fire lit, and be prepared to carry a torch . 
 

Not everybody knows ways to make their own fires out of simple tools like ours, to light the path of enlightenment.

 

Return to the in carved block…

Edited October 2 by Thrice Daily

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

Yeah man, I think I once read that if an atom was the size of a cathedral. An electron, (or neutron or proton can’t remember) would be about the size of a small coin whizzing around the perimeter.

 

The rest is (erm) empty space.

 

I was thinking primarily about this brand of emptiness:

 

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Emptiness

 

But yes, if science is to be believed, we really understand very little about anything. What a relief.

 

Quote

Devolution is in many respects an actual thing isn’t it @old3bob (in a literal and very obvious sense outwardly in the world education, politics, the signs are everywhere) and with things as they are currently (1984ish) we could be looking at a lot more (devolution that is)

 

Here are some masters of that discipline.

 

 

They can even levitate and fly!

 

The Truth About Devolution

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

 

I was thinking primarily about this brand of emptiness:

 

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Emptiness

 

“Everything Becomes Emptiness”

[stirling]

10 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

“Everything Becomes Emptiness”

 

"Everything" always already IS emptiness.

[Thrice Daily]

51 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

"Everything" always already IS emptiness.

I know I was just singing…

[Apech]

11 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

I know I was just singing…

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

11 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

I can’t remember the lyrics now. It was from the Kadampa Centre 15 years ago.

 

Can still remember some of the songs though. Quite beautiful they were.

[stirling]

See also:

 

 

[manitou]

22 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

The rest is (erm) empty space.

 

Allegedly. 

 

 

 

I was fascinated by this, I've researched it previously.  What you say is true.  The atom is composed of .00000000000001% matter, 99.999999999% space.  13 zeros, 13 nines.  It's phenomenal, when you think about it.  Were it not for the spinning motion, we would be a little pile of dust to be swept up on the floor.  It appears that motion and life are the very same thing.  The planets are in motion, creating night and day.  No motion, no time.  Wow.

[manitou]

8 hours ago, stirling said:

See also:

 

 

 

 

 

Everything, Everywhere, All at Once, with Jamie Lee Curtis.  Did you see it?

[manitou]

9 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

I can’t remember the lyrics now. It was from the Kadampa Centre 15 years ago.

 

Can still remember some of the songs though. Quite beautiful they were.

 

 

That is quite wonderful.  Everything is Everything.  I'm not sure a person could understand this without at least a layman's understanding of quantum physics (Tao of Physics,, or The Holographic Universe)

Edited October 3 by manitou

[manitou]

@ForestofHappiness,  I just popped onto the link you offered.  The very first part of it stopped me in my tracks! I'd never thought of it this way before.

 

THIS:

 

"Happily, there is a wonderful definition in Tibetan that captures its true meaning: Tib. རྟག་ཆད་དང་བྲལ་བ་, tak ché dang dralwa, which translates as: ‘free from permanence and non-existence'."

 

The idea of freedom from non-existence is a gentle way of saying freedom from death. Freedom from permanence is a little hazier.  What would that really mean?  Freedom from continual rebirth?  Or freedom in the knowledge that this is really all an illusion, seeing as we're only .00000000000001% here?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3 by manitou

[stirling]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

Everything, Everywhere, All at Once, with Jamie Lee Curtis.  Did you see it?

 

I love almost everything with Michelle Yeoh! An amazing film. 

 

Possible Research Topics: Bardos

[stirling]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

@ForestofHappiness,  I just popped onto the link you offered.  The very first part of it stopped me in my tracks! I'd never thought of it this way before.

 

THIS:

"Happily, there is a wonderful definition in Tibetan that captures its true meaning: Tib. རྟག་ཆད་དང་བྲལ་བ་, tak ché dang dralwa, which translates as: ‘free from permanence and non-existence'."

 

I posted that link (though it could easily have been Forest) and, yes, the Tibetans truly have mastery IMHO where it comes to talking about and understanding this interesting phenomena we are aware of. Yes, I agree.... freedom! It is realization that all of the conceptual ridiculousness we think we might experience is just that. Death? Do you remember dying? I don't... or being born for that matter. 

 

Here is a relevant section of the Heart Sutra that addresses this too:

 

Quote

Shariputra, all dharmas are marked by emptiness；they neither arise nor cease, are neither defiled nor pure, neither increase nor decrease. Therefore, given emptiness, there is no form, no sensation, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no sight, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of mind; no realm of sight... no realm of mind consciousness. There is neither ignorance nor extinction of ignorance... neither old age and death, nor extinction of old age and death； no suffering, no cause, no cessation, no path；no knowledge and no attainment. - Buddha, Heart Sutra, (my italics)

 

The truth or lack of truth of death or extinction (amongst other interesting things) lack intrinsic reality. What lives and dies is not what we think it is. Awareness is not a "dharma".

 

Quote

The idea of freedom from non-existence is a gentle way of saying freedom from death. Freedom from permanence is a little hazier.  What would that really mean?  Freedom from continual rebirth?  Or freedom in the knowledge that this is really all an illusion, seeing as we're only .00000000000001% here?

 

We are 0% here in reality. It means both of those, and more, yes. Identity as a body is a delusion, one amongst many. Awareness is the fabric of reality - what we are.

[manitou]

I love you, Mr. or Ms. Stirling.  And you too, Forest of Emptiness.  And Thrice Daily. (although I think that's a bit much.  Mine is only onceth daily)

 

 

 

Edited October 3 by manitou

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

On 16.5.2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

Why is Christianity such a strange religion?  

 

When you are confronted by it there are several things you are expected to accept:

 

- there is a supreme being who created the universe

- this being impregnated a virgin 

- the child grew up to perform miracles and so on

- he was crucified, died and then rose from the dead

 

Now, other religions have people who perform miracles (siddhis) and so on.  And some have creator Gods also.  But if you approach these religions and ask about siddhis and so on - the usual response will be 'forget about it, its not important'.

 

But with Christianity it is central that not only these things happened but you believe that they did.  You have to accept.  

 

These factual assertions provoke questioning.  Because they are given as facts then they require proof.  Can a virgin get pregnant without having sex with a man?  Can a man perform miracles?  Can someone rise from the dead?  It flies in the face of our normal experience.  Hence the opposing position - atheism which refutes all these things, mostly on the basis that they are outside the experience of all of us.  We have never witnessed any of these things.  So why would we believe them?

 

You don't get anything called Abuddhism, or Adaoism ... why?  Because although there are many people who are not Buddhist or Daoist the upfront claims made by Buddhism and Daoism do not provoke refutation.  Whether or not there was a historical Buddha is actually unimportant to the dharma - as with Lao Tzu ... they do not hinge on stated historical facts in the way Christianity does.

 

?

I get the sentiment, but two quick counter points:

1. I belive you are making a little bit of a strawman here. I think the amount of people that interpet the virgin birth symbolically, as a literary tool, far out weighs the amount of people who think Yahwe put his penis inside virgin Mary.

2. We are talking a very «canonized» christianity, which, as we all know, has been strongly regulated and abused trough the centuries. I think we would see a big difference if it was allowed to grow organically, as I think most religions once did. Christianity even, in its very beginnings.

[Thrice Daily]

2 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I get the sentiment, but two quick counter points:

1. I belive you are making a little bit of a strawman here. I think the amount of people that interpet the virgin birth symbolically, as a literary tool, far out weighs the amount of people who think Yahwe put his penis inside virgin Mary.

2. We are talking a very «canonized» christianity, which, as we all know, has been strongly regulated and abused trough the centuries. I think we would see a big difference if it was allowed to grow organically, as I think most religions once did. Christianity even, in its very beginnings.

Right I’m starting a new topic in this part of the forum thanks for the inspiration 👍