Christianity

[blue eyed snake]

45 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

The more I work with the Holy Spirit the more I see I'm handing myself over to this lineage that was started by Jesus Christ in his ministry and his wishes. All the the people that hold up his life, death and message to the light also align with him as a teacher and master. 

 

ehm, I am not a christian, never have been and never will be in this life.

I do respect those that follow that path though, although sometimes my ego finds it troubling.

 

Also not very good with words but bear with me.

 

firstly, the holy spirit is already mentioned in several places in the old testament, so you can hardly call  that aspect of christianity as solely belonging to, or started by Jesus.

 

secondly, what Christians call the holy spirit is in fact universal, some Shamans that I know call it "the white light from above"

It is, in my understanding and experience, a very high energy  that can descend on us when we are open for it, you cannot shape it, or bend it to your will, it is there and you can let it do its thing.

 

when it touches you it will open up the heart region and teach your heart  compassion.

 

In my head resides a memorable session in the dojo were us humble Chigong practitioners were led by our teacher to experience the white light from above, the Christians under us were moved to tears as they promptly recognized it as what they were taught to call the holy spirit.

 

It's a fascinating topic, but Christians cannot and should not claim it as solely Christian.

 

 🙏 

[Thrice Daily]

2 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

It's a fascinating topic, but Christians cannot and should not claim it as solely Christian.

 

I hear what you say , I'm not convinced though about it being only Christian and I'll tell you why from my perspective. 

 

I've always shyed away from religeon, mainly because of the worship aspect. Doing Qigong and working with energies I didn't think it was needed and thought it would only cause problems

 

I've worked with Qi as part of Qigong systems. I understand there is a universal force.

 

It was not until the holy spirit was moved by active worship that it took on the quality it did. I believe this (my experience of it) is solely Christian as it is through mentally allowing Jesus to be the conduit for that energy. I believe this allows it to take on a different quality.

 

Kind of like the difference between light shining through a regular window. Or a fine stained glass window of many colours. 

 

Now I can only talk with my own experience, but the mystical union and operations of the mind/heart that activate are unlike anything else I've experienced. And very much with the quality of Jesus. 

 

Not to say that Jesus wasnt working back in his time with universal force and holy spirit that came before him, i'm sure he was. 

But through Christianity and it's various rituals I think it's safe to say you are tapping into something quite different. 

 

Or at least utilized and fine tuned in a certain way...

 

If you do Reiki you get certain quality (lots down to the creator of system and lineage), same with systems of martial arts, there's always a lineage and certain purity passed on, I think there are psychic implications too and masters of systems partially live on in their systems. 

 

Jesus apparently had the authority to cast out demons and heal the sick. But I think it was really the grand finale that sealed the deal and established his lineage [kingdom]on earth. It was a smart move and now probably the biggest movement of social qigong on the planet.

 

Monks, Nuns and regular people using the dozens of daily meditative and prayer practices everyday.

 

Not to mention the eucharist. I think by virtue of the sheer magnitude of the group co operation there is a significant quality at play with the holy spirit via the practices. 

 

Of course it still comes from the same Source,it's still made of the same stuff but it seems to take a very distinct quality to other forms of tapping energy. 

 

As said though I think it's the worship aspect and the choice people make to hold Jesus up that high in their hearts and trust he is one with God and nothing stands between them. 

 

It's like my kung fu teacher is a up there with the lineage holders of IP Man Wing Chun,( but Ip didn't invent kungfu, any more than Jesus invented Healing, ) I'd rather be taught by him than any of his students. No matter how much better they may seem , even technicaly. My teacher is closer to the source and I think his kungfu is more pure.

 

There are other functions and mechanisms that I think come into play too,,, down to the crucifixion and resurrection story when it's internalized,, and the implication of taking that on-board as a living practice. But it's for a different post maybe. Really though these are just my beliefs and opinions and I respect all others truths too...

Edited October 7 by Thrice Daily

[old3bob]

a major point is that Jesus did not pass the lineage on to another master here on earth...sure he empowered people like Peter and others to carry on,  along with leaving or inspiring lots of practices and wisdom but not a full successor that continues on to include a line of successors to replace him on earth and keep things from going nuts with thousands of various forms of Christianity!   Why I don't know? 

Edited October 7 by old3bob

[Thrice Daily]

9 minutes ago, old3bob said:

a major point is that Jesus did not pass the lineage on to another master here on earth...sure he empowered people like Peter and others to carry on,  along with leaving or inspiring lots of practices and wisdom but not a full successor that continues on to include a line of successors to replace him on earth and keep things from going nuts with thousands of various forms of Christianity!   Why I don't know? 

Fair comment. I was taken in quite a few directions of different versions of Christianity, when I learned the word "catholic" has the root meaning "built on Jesus" I decided to put away my dubiousness. It seems Peter was nominated as the first pope and since then they have continued to come and go haven't they, it makes sense for someone to be in charge to make decisions. It keeps the life in it (if you ask me) 

 

Not for everyone I know. If I lived in India is probably be quite different. Here in Poland 72% are Roman Catholic so there is a lot to align with... 

 

For me it's as much a collective qigong as anything else. Going to church is akin to doing Tai Chi in the park each morning if I were back in Taiwan. Community getting together, connecting. 

 

A big part of it really isn't it ❤ 

 

 

Edited October 7 by Thrice Daily

[old3bob]

ok most popes are very ethical, well educated and smart enough to survive both church and worldly politics (along with the benefits of the tons of worldly money and properties belonging to the powers in Rome) but most are not saints and if honest with themselves  know that they are also fallible humans.  They do not have the great spiritual powers of Jesus thus are not full successors in deeper meaning of the word..  Jesus  was also about penniless and had to beg or count on householders for food and lodging...(when not in the wilderness)

[forestofclarity]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

Jesus did not pass the lineage

 

Well, the lineage isn't necessarily person to person, although there is sometimes claimed a transmission by laying on the of the hands that supposedly traces back to Jesus. The transmission is via Holy Spirit. Specifically, in the Bible there are three symbolic "baptisms": 

 

1. The baptism of the flesh with water. This is the common "turning away" from the world, the flesh, and the devil that most Christians do;

 

2. The baptism of spirit and fire, with the aforementioned laying on of hands. This is when the Holy Spirit enters into a person and there may be flashy experiences and siddhi-type powers as set forth in Acts; and

 

3. The baptism of wisdom and cloud. A Christian version of the wisdom eye. 

 

If people think these are merely metaphors, well, feel free to think so. 

[old3bob]

joining in or communion through those ways is great but is still not Jesus choosing and assigning a new lineage holder on earth to replace himself;  which each master would then follow suit by choosing their successor when their time was up.

Edited October 8 by old3bob

[manitou]

11 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

 

No offense daoist, but can the term dao be used in the way westerners often use nature? I have been reading Aurelius, and I find it very intruiging how he talks about the gods, uniervsal reason, nature and fate almost synomously. 

 

 

I'm not a Daoist, but I fell in love with a book called The Wisdom of Ancient China at a yard sale, by Lin Yutang.  When I got to the DDJ I was blown away by the counter-intuitiveness of the Way - how I had gotten myself so conditioned to push, push, make it happen.  When that all came crashing down, I came out of the chute into this lovely pool of clear water.  I couldn't be more fortunate.

 

What I've found, after walking the path of sobriety for a lot of years and participating on this forum for a lot of years has tempered me, just like a rock in a tumbler.  I was heavily Christian for many years, but was never quite able to grow to my full potential as long as I was in a structure of any sort.  I've come to understand that it's all the very same thing.  The interesting thing to me is regardless of whether you're born in Australia, China, or the U.S.. we are most likely going to either go along with the religion of our youths, or even become an atheist and refuse to buy into any of it.  But there's still an 'It' that the atheist is rebelling against.  That 'It' urge seems to be built right within us, even as those who do seemingly evil things all their life often reach out to something right before their heads get shoved into a toilet bowl.

 

The Reflections of Marcus Aurelius is one of the more important works, IMO.  I do need to know a lot more about him.

 

Nature is It.  You are It.  When you enjoy Nature, it is It enjoying itself.  It just wants to be noticed once in a while, according to Castaneda.  It's all one whole big enchilada, and somehow walking our paths with love to everything and everyone around us is the key to a simple and beautiful existence.  As someone wrote on my graffiti wall, "Cultivate Uncomplicated Awareness"  When the self realization is attained, the need to see ourselves as separate from each other leaves.  Giving things away gets a lot easier, giving money gets a lot easier. 

 

But it does take a lifetime and an open mind.

 

 

Edited October 8 by manitou

[forestofclarity]

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

is still not Jesus choosing and assigning a new lineage holder

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The physical manifestation of the living Christ on earth are now the Christians. 

 

But yes, Jesus did not follow a Zen-like transmission model. 

[old3bob]

12 minutes ago, forestofclarity said:

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The physical manifestation of the living Christ on earth are now the Christians. 

 

But yes, Jesus did not follow a Zen-like transmission model. 

 

ok on that;  what I'm partly getting at that instead of there being like 10,000 forms of often conflicting Christian sects or groups that often say they have it right and others have it  wrong on this or that point or related to doctrine,  with just one known to be chosen and assigned successor that number and its accompanied quandary could be greatly reduced!

[blue eyed snake]

On 7-10-2024 at 7:37 PM, Thrice Daily said:

Of course it still comes from the same Source,it's still made of the same stuff but it seems to take a very distinct quality to other forms of tapping energy. 

 

 

well, you can believe whatever you want and if being a Christian is right for you then more power to you.

 

But that does mean you look at the world ( and all its layers) through that lens.

 

I was happily raised without any religion and was about 7 or 8 years old when i first encountered the concept of "god" so, although I grew up in a Christian society, I am relatively  free of ingrained childhood notions regarding Christianity, looking backwards, that's a gift i am grateful for.

 

going back to that memorable session in the dojo, afterwards sifu asked us what we experienced, he sometimes did that. Interesting answers, those with a christian background all told they had experienced light, "like little flames"  on the crown of the head. They all were emotionally moved as they instantly ( and involuntarily, that is what the lens does, it sorts your experiences into boxes with an assigned meaning) associated the light from above with the holy spirit from their religion.

 I think those little flames are mentioned in the bible and i know they're used in that beautiful old Christian art.

That is what I call looking through a lens, that's not bad, we all look through lenses of sorts but being aware of them helps to see more clearly.

 

Spoiler

 

The non christians had a more varied answers, like a sunbeam touched me on the crown, white light falling down on the crown, a light beam getting into my head at the crown, like that. They were all impressed and a bit subdued by the experience but none of them mentioned little flames on the head.

 

interesting bit of art where the white light is depicted as a sunbeam, in christian art 

 

Spoiler

 

Another reason for the white light from above seemingly being tied to Christianity is the simple  fact that it's Christians who try to make themselves open for this energy. Where several people are open for some kind of energy it's easier to tap into that.

So Pentecost will probably be a good day to see whether you can make yourself open to that white light. Not because it is christian, but because many people are open to it on that day.

Just as it is a whole lot easier to get your chi running in a dojo filled with senior students then alone in some other place.

 

For myself, raised with zero religion I have been aware of the white light since I can remember, decades later I was taught to tap into the energy coming up from the earth and was amazed, how could I have missed that.

 

Now the latter energy is not Chinese/ asiatic or daoist. It just is and those that who are able and/or have guidance to learn, can tap into it.

 

Later hot energy coursed through my spine and went out of the top of my head, now may only the people of the indian subcontinent claim that energy as being/ belonging to their people, their religions? course not. Although rare, its universal.

 

In the same vein the white energy cannot be claimed by christians.

 

I have no idea what those energies are, i mean, i do have ideas, humans seem to have a need to categorize and have ideas about everything.

But I keep those ideas in the box " ideas" i will not let them get into the box " truth"

 

------

here's a nice post about the  white light, the whole thread may interest you I think.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8 by blue eyed snake
several spelling issues

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

well, you can believe whatever you want and if being a Christian is right for you then more power to you.

 

But that does mean you look at the world ( and all its layers) through that lens.

 

I was happily raised without any religion and was about 7 or 8 years old when i first encountered the concept of "god" so, although I grew up in a Christian society, I am relatively  free of ingrained childhood notions regarding Christianity, looking backwards, that's a gift i am grateful for.

 

going back to that memorable session in the dojo, afterwards sifu asked us what we experienced, he sometimes did that. Interesting answers, those with a christian background all told they had experienced light, "like little flames"  on the crown of the head. They all were emotionally moved as they instantly ( and involuntarily, that is what the lens does, it sorts your experiences into boxes with an assigned meaning) associated the light from above with the holy spirit from their religion.

 I think those little flames are mentioned in the bible and i know they're used in that beautiful old Christian art.

That is what I call looking through a lens, that's not bad, we all look through lenses of sorts but being aware of them helps to see more clearly.

 

  Hide contents

 

The non christians had a more varied answers, like a sunbeam touched me on the crown, white light falling down on the crown, a light beam getting into my head at the crown, like that. They were all impressed and a bit subdued by the experience but none of them mentioned little flames on the head.

 

interesting bit of art where the white light is depicted as a sunbeam, in christian art 

 

  Hide contents

 

Another reason for the white light from above seemingly being tied to Christianity is the simple  fact that it's Christians who try to make themselves open for this energy. Where several people are open for some kind of energy it's easier to tap into that.

So Pentecost will probably be a good day to see whether you can make yourself open to that white light. Not because it is christian, but because many people are open to it on that day.

Just as it is a whole lot easier to get your chi running in a dojo filled with senior students then alone in some other place.

 

For myself, raised with zero religion I have been aware of the white light since I can remember, decades later I was taught to tap into the energy coming up from the earth and was amazed, how could I have missed that.

 

Now the latter energy is not Chinese/ asiatic or daoist. It just is and those that who are able and/or have guidance to learn, can tap into it.

 

Later hot energy coursed through my spine and went out of the top of my head, now may only the people of the indian subcontinent claim that energy as being/ belonging to their people, their religions? course not. Although rare, its universal.

 

In the same vein the white energy cannot be claimed by christians.

 

I have no idea what those energies are, i mean, i do have ideas, humans seem to have a need to categorize and have ideas about everything.

But I keep those ideas in the box " ideas" i will not let them get into the box " truth"

 

------

here's a nice post about the  white light, the whole thread may interest you I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For me it was definitely a 'beam' . In the picture where it is a flame we can see , sorta, its a beam ending in a flame , or a flame with a 'trail' behind it , or just a flame / For me, no flame , and not the top of the head . smacked me dead center of forehead .

 

What I have found most significant or more important as I have processed this over the years is not the 'flame or beam' itself , but the information that passed along that beam .

 

People talk about the details of their illumined experience , that is , the light , mostly -  but few seem to talk about the 'knowledge stream' that comes with it .   That's probably understandable as it seems to get lodged / stored in the unconscious  and many may not be able to access it in there  (as they dont understand the 'communication medium ' between conscious and unconscious   )  .

[blue eyed snake]

On 9-10-2024 at 2:11 AM, Nungali said:

 

For me it was definitely a 'beam' . In the picture where it is a flame we can see , sorta, its a beam ending in a flame , or a flame with a 'trail' behind it , or just a flame / For me, no flame , and not the top of the head . smacked me dead center of forehead .

 

more christian art, beam on the forehead, no flame

 

Spoiler

 

https://necspenecmetu.tumblr.com/post/58356098895/agostino-scilla-christ-in-the-house-of-martha-and

 

no flame for me either, a beam, always on the crown. Color changing from the purest white to a deep golden. I tend to see that flame as symbolic. You're sorta lightened up like a candle. I guess when you hear that story of flames and see the christian art it will automatically pop up when you are touched by that light.

 

On 9-10-2024 at 2:11 AM, Nungali said:

 

What I have found most significant or more important as I have processed this over the years is not the 'flame or beam' itself , but the information that passed along that beam .

 

uhm, yes, but maybe that's because you are touched on the forehead, like it's the seat of seeing and knowing or ' the third eye' as it is commonly called.

I've never made that connection, for me the light from above was always about compassion, although I have some knowledge not obtained through the more usual ways too, also since childhood.

 

 

On 9-10-2024 at 2:11 AM, Nungali said:

 

People talk about the details of their illumined experience , that is , the light , mostly -  but few seem to talk about the 'knowledge stream' that comes with it .   That's probably understandable as it seems to get lodged / stored in the unconscious  and many may not be able to access it in there  (as they dont understand the 'communication medium ' between conscious and unconscious   )  .

 

also maybe being so impressed by the light itself that the information carried  does not register.

 

during that session in the dojo I was not surprised by the strengthening of the beam, what did surprise me was becoming aware of a silver rope curling upwards from my body and 2 mighty white wings above me.

 

as neither the christian dove nor the concept of the silver cord were known to me at the time I've wondered about them a long time.

 

what are those wings? and do they have a counterpart in other cultures?

My association does not go further then the caduceus, you knowledge is much larger than mine, please help me out. with a bit of info.

 

Spoiler

 

[Thrice Daily]

10 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

what are those wings? and do they have a counterpart in other cultures?

My association does not go further then the caduceus, you knowledge is much larger than mine, please help me out. with a bit of info.

Could be something very specific to you. Perhaps.

 

I have lots of experiences that relate to my crown chakra that are similar to what’s being described here.

 

Some of it is universal and some highly personalised I feel.

 

It certainly seems to be a trend with Christianity that the Holy Spirit enters through the crown doesn’t it. 
 

And perhaps up there is the furthest away from our base desires and our human experience with one another.

 

So on the body maybe you say the crown is closest to God.

 

I get some experiences like this. And I’m thinking it’s maybe more of a male experience too. I can’t speak for women per say. But if you look at Saint Faustina for example, her experience with visions of connections from God was much more from the heart.

 

I don’t feel as comfortable with this, the crown seems more apt as a collection point for communicating in this way, with God directly via the Holy Spirit 

 

if indeed any of that is even really helping, convincing experiences that’s for sure  

[blue eyed snake]

20 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

And I’m thinking it’s maybe more of a male experience too.

 

use your eyes

 

 

https://louvrebible.org.uk/oeuvre/213/annexes

[Thrice Daily]

One of the reasons I say about the male experience 

 

in Christianity specifically (where I live Catholic) is because of the roles being much more traditional gender roles.

 

The idea of the patriarchy may seem out of date but it’s not really here. The men mostly guide the relationship , the women raise kids and of course do much talking amongst themselves. Traditionally speaking they tended to have more time for these things, and being much more heart led…

 

I think some of that’s still true.

 

I heard it once said quite interestingly. That in a marriage it could be a bit like chess, the man makes the decisions for each move but…

 

the women can change the rules… 

 

I think a lot like the pope being the head of the church, the priest being the head of the parish and the man being the head of the family. (Traditionally)

 

it makes sense for him to need a quicker guidance system generally than the women. Who tends to be busy with other affairs… again traditionally.

 

im not implying the reserve can’t or shouldn’t be true inside relationships. I think everything should be open to negotiation … 

 

Open communication being key…

[manitou]

On 10/8/2024 at 5:11 PM, Nungali said:

People talk about the details of their illumined experience , that is , the light , mostly -  but few seem to talk about the 'knowledge stream' that comes with it .   That's probably understandable as it seems to get lodged / stored in the unconscious  and many may not be able to access it in there  (as they dont understand the 'communication medium ' between conscious and unconscious   ) 

 

 

 

Where does your knowledge stream come from?  Is it from without, or is it opening the moon door from within?

[manitou]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

One of the reasons I say about the male experience 

 

in Christianity specifically (where I live Catholic) is because of the roles being much more traditional gender roles.

 

The idea of the patriarchy may seem out of date but it’s not really here. The men mostly guide the relationship , the women raise kids and of course do much talking amongst themselves. Traditionally speaking they tended to have more time for these things, and being much more heart led…

 

I think some of that’s still true.

 

I heard it once said quite interestingly. That in a marriage it could be a bit like chess, the man makes the decisions for each move but…

 

the women can change the rules… 

 

I think a lot like the pope being the head of the church, the priest being the head of the parish and the man being the head of the family. (Traditionally)

 

it makes sense for him to need a quicker guidance system generally than the women. Who tends to be busy with other affairs… again traditionally.

 

im not implying the reserve can’t or shouldn’t be true inside relationships. I think everything should be open to negotiation … 

 

Open communication being key…

 

 

You're a guy, right?    

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11 by manitou

[blue eyed snake]

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Could be something very specific to you. Perhaps.

 

I have lots of experiences that relate to my crown chakra that are similar to what’s being described here.

 

Some of it is universal and some highly personalised I feel.

 

It certainly seems to be a trend with Christianity that the Holy Spirit enters through the crown doesn’t it. 

 

no idea about trends in christianity, no interest either

 

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

And perhaps up there is the furthest away from our base desires and our human experience with one another.

 

ah, base desires

they reside in the thoughts, and play out between the legs

no brain, no lust

 

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

So on the body maybe you say the crown is closest to God.

 

I get some experiences like this. And I’m thinking it’s maybe more of a male experience too. I can’t speak for women per say. But if you look at Saint Faustina for example, her experience with visions of connections from God was much more from the heart.

 

I don’t feel as comfortable with this, the crown seems more apt as a collection point for communicating in this way, with God directly via the Holy Spirit 

 

if indeed any of that is even really helping, convincing experiences that’s for sure  

 

again, use your eyes, the female figure in the middle  should be Mary, mom of jesus, seeing the colors she's wearing, she's the only one who is able to bear the brunt of the power that's descending, next to her looks like a young woman, probably mary magdalene, standing up too and bearing up well.

 

the rest of the tableau is made up of men who are hardly able to stand up to this light stream. There are a bit more than twelve so will be the apostles plus some extra.

 

oh, and this piece of art originally was much higher, the top part was cut off to make it fit some space...in the top-part a dove was visible.

 

again, I am not a christian but a dedicated heathen, but i do have eyes to see what is staring me in the face.

[Thrice Daily]

10 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

You're a guy, right?    

 

 

 

 

Yes thanks for that, I’ll take it as a compliment. I think…

[blue eyed snake]

On 16-5-2024 at 3:33 PM, Taomeow said:

On 16-5-2024 at 10:32 AM, Taoist Texts said:

 

 

I seem to recall that many versions of the Christian doctrine were based on the assumption that "heathen" and "barbarians" don't have a soul, and that they get a chance to acquire one if they accept Jesus as their savior.  Some went farther -- I'm not someone who has all the references on hand for all occasions (to my chagrin), but I read a medieval treatise titled "Is Woman Human?" with my own eyes, and it proved with multiple biblical quotes that she isn't, and therefore, while "all humans" have a soul, this only implies all male humans.

 

thank you for this snippet of knowledge, it does not surprise me in the least.

 

[blue eyed snake]

On 3-10-2024 at 5:07 AM, manitou said:

 

 

 

I was fascinated by this, I've researched it previously.  What you say is true.  The atom is composed of .00000000000001% matter, 99.999999999% space.  13 zeros, 13 nines.  It's phenomenal, when you think about it.  Were it not for the spinning motion, we would be a little pile of dust to be swept up on the floor.  It appears that motion and life are the very same thing.  The planets are in motion, creating night and day.  No motion, no time.  Wow.

 

and that is the most 'solid' part of a human being, our thoughts, emotions et cetera are a lot less dense

[Nungali]

On 10/12/2024 at 7:48 AM, blue eyed snake said:

 

more christian art, beam on the forehead, no flame

 

  Hide contents

 

https://necspenecmetu.tumblr.com/post/58356098895/agostino-scilla-christ-in-the-house-of-martha-and

 

no flame for me either, a beam, always on the crown. Color changing from the purest white to a deep golden. I tend to see that flame as symbolic. You're sorta lightened up like a candle. I guess when you hear that story of flames and see the christian art it will automatically pop up when you are touched by that light.

 

 

uhm, yes, but maybe that's because you are touched on the forehead, like it's the seat of seeing and knowing or ' the third eye' as it is commonly called.

I've never made that connection, for me the light from above was always about compassion, although I have some knowledge not obtained through the more usual ways too, also since childhood.

 

 

 

also maybe being so impressed by the light itself that the information carried  does not register.

 

during that session in the dojo I was not surprised by the strengthening of the beam, what did surprise me was becoming aware of a silver rope curling upwards from my body and 2 mighty white wings above me.

 

as neither the christian dove nor the concept of the silver cord were known to me at the time I've wondered about them a long time.

 

what are those wings? and do they have a counterpart in other cultures?

My association does not go further then the caduceus, you knowledge is much larger than mine, please help me out. with a bit of info.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When something has a cross cultural existence  I think its safe to assume it has archetypal significance ; that is , it is something everyone associates with a similar meaning .

 

I just call them 'angel wings '  .   Psychologically, its a symbol of 'lifting up' ,  consciousness or spirit .  And 'transmigration' .  On the caduceus it represents the 'higher world' or empyrean

 

The Divine Comedy's Empyrean, illustrated by Gustave Doré

 

(  Its a staff of Mercury , but Mercury had winged feet ... the only God  IMM  { in my Menory } that has 'shoullder wings' is Psyche ... the Goddess of our soul . )

 

 

yet here it seems apt as mercury is also God of communication  -  DNA code is a good example of stored knowledge  - communication .

 

We all know what birds are , so the image and symbol 'transfixes' all .

 

Another explanation is given in the Urantia Book *  - whose mission seems to be presenting the  western religious stream in the context of explainable 'science' . It talks about the 'transportation' of ' postmortem identity '  ( soul, spirit - I cant remember the term they prefer )  in one of the host of spiritual beings it describes ... a sort of 'transporting angel '  / 'pod'   ... the wings are the open 'shielding' of the 'pod' .

 

Personally, I prefer the wings   over 'science fiction ' .  The Daena , who meets us after death and helps us 'cross' is sometimes depicted in billowing robes . These fold about us and protect us , as she does during our transition and 'rebirth' into another world .  She can be seen as a type of 'midwife and nurse' that helps us into and  to  grow in the next world  ( and to help process and learn from past trauma )

 

Think of 'womb'  and after that  ' swaddling' 

 

" The swaddling clothes of medieval Madonna and Child paintings are now replaced with cotton receiving blankets, cotton muslin wraps, or specialised "winged" baby swaddles."

 

Daena :

 

'spirit reception'  - in a more abstract mode ;

 

 

 

'Spirit ' descends , 'Man' rises , they 'interlock' .....   and off we go  ...

 

 

*    https://archive.urantiabook.org/archive/studyaid/grd_angl.htm

Edited Saturday at 11:21 PM by Nungali

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

 

Where does your knowledge stream come from?  Is it from without, or is it opening the moon door from within?

 

    Where does the 'knowledge' to 'drum like a demon' come from .... while you are doing it, yet at the same time realizing you actually arent doing it ... 'it' is 'coming through' you .

 

Thats the big one .  Ego wants to own everything .

 

I would say it is both ... it is from without ... a 'non local' awareness / consciousness .  and it is a type of 'unconscious opening ' from within - by that I mean its caused and regulated (timed ) by some internal clock that knows when you have developed enough to deal with it  ... like puberty ... we dont consciously create that change .

 

But I go more towards the outer source ... I had no idea it was coming ... hit me 'outa the blue ' ... grabbed me , shook me , got it forever now, and  there was nothing I could do about it .

 

regarding the other  view , its just as valid .   If I never open my eyes , I never see the wonder of creation .... I open them (consciously or by genetic program  after birth ) , yet it has always exited 'out there ' .

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

no idea about trends in christianity, no interest either

 

 

ah, base desires

they reside in the thoughts, and play out between the legs

no brain, no lust

 

 

again, use your eyes, the female figure in the middle  should be Mary, mom of jesus, seeing the colors she's wearing, she's the only one who is able to bear the brunt of the power that's descending, next to her looks like a young woman, probably mary magdalene, standing up too and bearing up well.

 

the rest of the tableau is made up of men who are hardly able to stand up to this light stream. There are a bit more than twelve so will be the apostles plus some extra.

 

oh, and this piece of art originally was much higher, the top part was cut off to make it fit some space...in the top-part a dove was visible.

 

again, I am not a christian but a dedicated heathen, but i do have eyes to see what is staring me in the face.

 

 

 

 

Yes, going with and beyond that .... what makes me special ?  I am a dedicated hetro guy .  I have looked into this and discovering more about my make up I have strong  'female' internal  side ... and I associate that with 'receptive' .

 

My astrological makeup is strongly Cancerian and Neptunian , symbols of the feminine  and the mystical , also associated with Luna ; the occult, mystical, unconscious, etc .  That can easily go out of balance but fortunately I have a well placed Mercurial regulator  ( again 'androgynous' energy with Mercury  but from the male 'form' .

 

Actually, in that painting I see the flames and rays as  strongly Mercurial energy .

 

Some have no reception whatsoever for the energy , some get 'fried' by it , some seem entirely insulated , and some let it pass through them, but accept the change its 'flow' brings .