Christianity

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

Eh ... what ... where  ? 

The contrast to how the mods deal with people compared to you know where.

[Apech]

6 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

 

I seem to remember that before the romans became christian they did conquer people but did not wipe out their gods? but instead those gods were assimilated ?

That the attitude to convert conquered people  started by one of their emperors taking on the new religion with only one god?

 ...

 

As I mentioned above they deliberately destroyed the Druid sancturies and sacred groves in Britain and elsewhere.  I think for them it was more about political authority and rival power than anything to do with the actual religion.  For instance Octavian (Augustus) subjugated Egypt but did not destroy the culture/religion.  

 

Pagan thought persisted to more or less the fall of the Western Roman Empire (eg. Proclus) - the growth and gradual supremacy of the Christian church through the 'dark ages' is quite a complicated story.  One important factor was the Frankish adoption of Catholicism over other forms of heretic Christianity (eg. Arianism) and that the Frankish Kings especially of course Charlemagne became defenders of the faith and Holy Roman Emperors because apart from anything they had success against the Caliphate spreading up through Spain.  I would say that this period Charlemagne and what happened after his death shaped European History ever since - and with it the domination of Catholicism up till the reformation (and beyond).  It's a big story and a fascinating one.

 

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

@Apech In your opinion, why was the church do hell bent on destroyign all other versions of christianity? The pnly reason I can see, is money and power.

[Nungali]

11 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

The contrast to how the mods deal with people compared to you know where.

 

The post from the 'concierge '  ?

 

Well he isnt a MOD ... he is a concierge ... the guy that opens the door for you ... relatively harmless   

 

and yes .... you can get away with just about anything here ..... take this for example  : 

 

Spoiler

I made you all look 

 

 

 

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

  Hide contents

I made you all look 

 

 

 

 

Hahah, so Edgy. How dear you.

[Thrice Daily]

11 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

@Apech In your opinion, why was the church do hell bent on destroyign all other versions of christianity? The pnly reason I can see, is money and power.

Good question and an interesting one. I’m pretty interested in learning about the earlier Christian Sects and their various beliefs and practices. It seems there were many…

[Thrice Daily]

THE RESURRECTION;

 

Being led to believe Jesus Risen from the dead was a tricky one for me. And I’m not sure how literally it should be taken, physically or otherwise. 
 

Perhaps you heard this theory on it that I’m about to outline. When I was around 15 an older guy explained it to me in the back of a car as we were heading back from a gig. He was cooked after drinking a load of wine, but I always remembered his story.

 

Here are the key points 🔑 

 

1/Judas was a good guy and sold Jesus on a specific day so he would be Crucified on Friday.

 

2/.The whole thing was planned meticulously so Jesus could be taken down on the sabbath and it was being banked on he would survive till then and those in charge would be respectful and give the body back in time to the community.

 

3/.The community Jesus lived were experts with herbs etc and added a special blend to a flannel, so when Jesus was offered the water on the cloth it was also laced with some herbal concoction to slow the heart beat and mimic death.

 

4/.Jesus (possibly had the experience of dying and descending into hell) but in the literal sense. While his body was wrapped in the shroud he was able to call on his skills and accelerate the healing process via prayer and his methods…

 

5/.The reason people reported that they seen Jesus show the holes in his hands when he was resurrected was because that was the legit flesh and blood version of Jesus. He was physically recovered to a large degree…  

[Totally think that’s possible…]

 

6/The reason he was legit risen was because his Astral body wouldn’t have had holes in the hands and feet.

 

7/.He also visited many people in his Astral body possibly even while he was in the Tomb… 

 

Love to hear peoples thoughts on these key points, or more detail on the theory?

Edited October 18 by Thrice Daily

[心神 ~]

 

@Thrice Daily

 

I've heard similar things. A surgeon once told me he believed that the slice to Jesus' side was sterile, and that when Thomas stuck his fingers in the wound for proof, the wound became infected and he [Jesus] died.

 

[Thrice Daily]

That’s such a Thomas thing to do  

[Apech]

16 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

@Apech In your opinion, why was the church do hell bent on destroyign all other versions of christianity? The pnly reason I can see, is money and power.

 

I think you could answer that question in a number of ways - I don't think there was one simple reason, either over time or at all.  

 

It is true in a Machiavellian sense that any power cannot tolerate a rival 'castle' or power structure to stand.  This is just basic power dynamics which you can see in all areas of life.  Also despite St. Paul saying 'there is no Greek or Jew ...' etc , tolerance was never really a Christian virtue - although these days they pretend that it is.  They are confused about what tolerance might mean.  But I would say this true of all religions, that behind the outer smiling face there is a belief that 'we are right and you are wrong'.

 

There were also, for the Church, and especially the early church some important doctrinal issues around Christology (mostly) - in other words 'who was Jesus and what was his nature'.  Was he God?  Was he human - or some other interpretation.  That's mostly what the heresies are about.  It is not really possible for a Church which regards itself to be universal and 'catholic' i.e. for everyone to accept that there are other possible interpretations than their own.  They held, they thought, the one true apostolic succession (a lineage if you like) directly from Jesus and Peter.  And so the preservation of this was (to them) necessary to the salvation of the faithful and ultimately to what would be at the end of times (which was in some periods thought to be imminent) .  As they are essentially dualists, they believe that there is a Devil as well as a God who works in the world to 'tempt' and draw people into wrong ways.  If you sincerely believe that the Devil or evil is an active force in the world and a constant danger it would not take much to convince you to take arms against it.

 

From the Dark Ages on, there was also a tension between who held true power, was it the spiritual leader, the Pope or was it the True Christian King - the Holy Roman Emperor.  Was it the spiritual or the secular power who would hold sway?  In selling Christianity to the Germanic tribes the type of Jesus as a warrior with sword in hand had been developed.  The truth being like a sharp sword distinguishing truth from lies and falsehood.  Along with this comes the Chivalric tradition of Arthurian myth and so on.

 

I think you are right that the accumulation of wealth was also a motive.  And wealth in those days was largely counted in land possession and martial power.  Things changed noticeably when we entered the mercantile era of early stage capitalism and this coincided with the rise of Protestantism and the splintering of the Church in the West into many churches.  In some ways it was this perhaps that broke the Catholic Church as much as rebellious princes (e.g. Henry VIII).

 

Some ideas I hope - if not a complete picture

 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

Will we ever know why Jesus allowed all the worldly permutations of super convoluted waring divisions and co-opting of his teachings?  Apparently not after thousands of years....(although he did note that,  "my kingdom is not of this world")

[Thrice Daily]

I’m not so sure. I’m pretty convinced the plan was real long term and he may have been hedging his bets but, he counted on people catching onto the message eventually. 
 

I'm not sure how important all the rest of Christianity is. Apart from the sheer simplicity of the message. Even a child knows what’s good in their bones instinctively .

 

Hopefully it’s reinforced with teachings like from Jesus and not conditioned out of them with hatred.

 

I think the ancient Romans purposely did this to toughen their kids up. Teaching hate from an early age.

 

Jesus message is very useful for teaching kids goodness. And that doing things in life is not all necessarily about them. Sometimes others should come first too.

 

The other things we are ‘meant to believe’ in like the immaculate conception I don’t think it’s really needed.

 

What you you guys think about this immaculate conception business??

[Cobie]

 

50 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

… What you you guys think about this immaculate conception business??

The Immaculate Conception was only declared in 1854 . I (RC) stick to what’s important to me, and let the rest be. 
 

 

Edited October 18 by Cobie

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

That’s such a Thomas thing to do  

 

So, it wasnt the Jews that killed Jesus after all !   It was Thomas !

[blue eyed snake]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

So, it wasnt the Jews that killed Jesus after all !   It was Thomas !

 

and after that he wrote the Thomas gospel to make up for that

[blue eyed snake]

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Jesus message is very useful for teaching kids goodness. And that doing things in life is not all necessarily about them. Sometimes others should come first too.

 

you do not need jesus for that, i was brought up without him and was taught that lesson with the added functionality of having been taught to think about what is morality instead of following a rulebook.

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

The other things we are ‘meant to believe’ in like the immaculate conception

 

Well, if you want to give  the central human figure of your religion a god-status it sort of adds up you want his mum to be clean of all human weaknesses aka sin.

 

[Thrice Daily]

6 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

you do not need jesus for that, i was brought up without him and was taught that lesson with the added functionality of having been taught to think about what is morality instead of following a rulebook.

Fair point. I know that too, as an adult. It’s simply a useful tool for me as I am a parent… 

 

Youre right in religious terms it’s not great, but everything seeks a balance , and it’s our job to pull it back in.

 

The rule book. It’s funny isn’t it. If you look at Catholics and Christians in general, you will find most are meat eaters and won’t give it a second thought. To add to that they know how to scale up a drinking session… 

 

The Buddhists however have a different sense of balance, typically no meat, no alcohol (I’d id say to make best use of its practicality as a system outside of a fully Buddhist society, no kids, the pacifism) 

 

[personally I’d prefer a Buddhist world, at least in theory…] 

 

Could everyone go without meat and drink as a rule though??? 
 

So yeah big rule book, but a lot of wiggle room. 
 

One night on the beer with a monk and his practice is probably finished, after the gambling and sex

 

Where do you draw the line BES?

6 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

Well, if you want to give  the central human figure of your religion a god-status it sort of adds up you want his mum to be clean of all human weaknesses aka sin.

It’s a lot to take on board isn’t it, I taught my kid the other day the real answer of “what came first, the chicken or the egg?” But I had to look it up first.

 

Information and Truth go hand in hand, it’s how you use it that I think matters most. I’d glad we now live in a time when we no longer has this kind of deception written into our coming history (well)

 

If you’d have told people in days of old we evolved from asexual organisms, I’m not sure what they would have made from that either. 
 

I think if you look at things from both directions (time wise, and creator to creation - and back again) , we are looking at a partial truth, just extremely strained.

 

how an asexual organism can split itself and then meet back up as a sperm and an egg is (for want of a better word) a miracle … But it all is really isn’t it if you delight in existence in its entirety, human failing included [to the most part at least]
 

Balance BES, I think it was for balance.

[Thrice Daily]

On 16/10/2024 at 9:02 PM, 心神 ~ said:

Which ones?

It’s been awesome reading your replies about the Essenes etc . It was fascinating. Thankyou kindly. 
 

I’ve wanted to read it for a shy while. Can I ask did you get much of it from the Essene Gospel?

 

I do have another question although not directly about the Jews, I hear it has been a talking point over time.

 

Do you know much about this Roman Soldier who the Jews believe was Jesuses biological father. 
 

I’ve only read it in passing , I’d love to know the sources and how much info there might be to;

 

back this up / refute it.

 

🎺 

[blue eyed snake]

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

It’s a lot to take on board isn’t it, I taught my kid the other day the real answer of “what came first, the chicken or the egg?” But I had to look it up first.

 

Information and Truth go hand in hand, it’s how you use it that I think matters most. I’d glad we now live in a time when we no longer has this kind of deception written into our coming history (well)

 

If you’d have told people in days of old we evolved from asexual organisms, I’m not sure what they would have made from that either. 
 

I think if you look at things from both directions (time wise, and creator to creation - and back again) , we are looking at a partial truth, just extremely strained.

 

how an asexual organism can split itself and then meet back up as a sperm and an egg is (for want of a better word) a miracle … But it all is really isn’t it if you delight in existence in its entirety, human failing included [to the most part at least]
 

Balance BES, I think it was for balance.

 

your answer surprises me as you profess to be a christian.

 

The immaculate conception says that the conception of mary, mother of jesus was immaculate. Thus she was born without sin, what in my language is called the inherited sin and i think in english is called original sin.

 

It has nothing to do with the conception of jesus whether with or without sex.

 

erhm...ah here is the wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

This is one of the details that makes me say the whole christian religion is constructed and the connection with the root is severed.

 

---

 

will answer the first part of your post later,

I totally do not agree with you but need to ponder how to answer clearly

 

[心神 ~]

 

19 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

Do you know much about this Roman Soldier who the Jews believe was Jesuses biological father. 
 

 

Well, similar things have been said since Mary first conceived. I don't know anything about specific individuals. What's the story?

 

Also, when you say "the Jews" believe... which person(s) made the claim?

 

 

19 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

I’ve wanted to read it for a shy while. Can I ask did you get much of it from the Essene Gospel?

 

 

Do you mean the information in my post, the observations of the Essene community? All of those were the written words of political leaders at the time.

 

As far as the Essene Gospel, are you referring to Edmond Bordeaux Szekely's "Essene Gospel of Peace" ? He claimed to have found an Aramaic translation of The Essene Gospel of Peace and The Essene Book of Revelation at the Vatican library, though the Vatican denies this and biblical scholars dispute his work.

 

 

13 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

What you you guys think about this immaculate conception business??

 

 

On 10/16/2024 at 8:43 AM, 心神 ~ said:

 

Some thoughts by Den Poitras on the concept of parthenogenesis.

 

His book, Parthenogenesis: Women's Long-Lost Ability to Self-Conceive.

 

 

The Gospel of the Birth of Mary

 

[Thrice Daily]

Cool 😎 @心神

 

I’ll look into that. You know I knew this Thread would have a lot more life left in it. 
 

If it had more words in the title I may have thought otherwise. 
 

Doesn’t get much more pure and concentrated than a one word topic starter.

 

The Construction of the religion I could never really have much faith in.

 

I like to disseminate it mainly from a psycho/social perspective through the lense of functionalism. (especially in my local area which is 72% Catholic although it was very knocked by Communism who tried to ban the church)

 

I don’t think going to church has much to do with Christianity at all in most senses, it can but doesn’t need to.

 

I’m not bashing it as such. And I think it’s cool people go Church with family and just get together and see eachother for a bit (especially in this modern world)

Still it’s not Worship is it unless your hearts in it, so it’s not really religion unless you actively take part in worship, that’s only in the heart not the church.. if you get me.

 

Community and Charity outreach has my vote though so anything that improves that is good.

 

Do you think it’s important if Mary was sinless or not?

 

I don’t know, I feel this is more all down to

Jesus message (Way)

Jesus intentions (To Continue As Holy Spirit)

 

and whether you believe it or not… 

 

that’s what makes Christianity to me IMHO

 

Christianity

 

love talking nuts and bolts though, it’s still all very interesting to get a feel for how it was all shaped over time as a physical entity. Ie The Church/Churches 

 

Thanks for helping educate me more. I’ll dig into those articles as soon as I get chance and get back to you too BES…
 

 

 

Edited October 19 by Thrice Daily

[blue eyed snake]

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Fair point. I know that too, as an adult. It’s simply a useful tool for me as I am a parent… 

 

you regard brainwashing as "a useful tool" ?

 

will answer this one as the parent of a young child i once was. After looking around and some deliberation we put our toddler at a waldorf school. I liked the atmosphere, the being close knit to nature, the free play and natural toys and such things. But we were both worried about the christian background and how that would influence our kid. We were assured that it was only a minor thing.

Young kids are very open, being  new to the world every experience comes in much bigger than with us grownups.

Long story short, when he was six we put him on a school without religion, as the endless singing about maria and jesus plus the brainwashing that went with it went very much against the way we see things.

 

During midwinter solstice i used to take  my kid to the woodland nearby, in the dark, with a handmade lantern and told him stories how the world darkened and how this was the moment that we could expect the light to come back. About the little folk living in the woodlands et cetera.

he's now a grown man with a bushy beard and a receding hairline, when asked as to his memories connected to christmas this one jumped out. Glad for that. I offered him a knitted beanie seeing that receding hairline, ooh nice mum. Can you make one with my name in runes, well done my boy,  back to our roots.

-------------

then about the brainwashing, as a kid i found out that my most beloved aunt had an extramarital relation with a man I regarded as uncle. Whew,  that was a hard one and has put our relation far backwards. As I grew up in the mostly christian society you seem to prefer, I measured behavior by the christian 'rules' and extramarital relations are forbidden by the rulebook...

 

But why, nobody was hurt in any way.

My uncle knew about this relation and had no problems with it. My aunt simple loved 2 men and has balanced that in her life. Nobody was harmed by it. But my relation with my aunt was damaged by that stupid 'rulebook'.

Happily I was able to sort things out and made good with her, but that took more than a decade.

 

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

Youre right in religious terms it’s not great, but everything seeks a balance , and it’s our job to pull it back in.

 

you pull me in with something you regard as your job, i will have no part of it.

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

The rule book. It’s funny isn’t it. If you look at Catholics and Christians in general, you will find most are meat eaters and won’t give it a second thought. To add to that they know how to scale up a drinking session… 

 

Nothing wrong with eating meat or drinking alcohol as long as it in appropriate amounts, animal protein is needed for keeping a healthy body, the teeth and the gut clearly point in that direction. For me no animal protein is unbalanced. On the other hand the way livestock is kept, moved and slaughtered is criminal. With horrifying consequences for those that eat it.

this for instance ( open at own risk)

 

Spoiler

 

these pigs are moved in a truck and the temperature is 34 degrees Celcius. They are sick , overheated and very scared. When you eat that meat you will digest their fear ( and the other side of that coin, anger) I for one am sure that fear will somehow settle in the bodymind of the people that eat it.

 

I regard this as criminal behavior, all condoned by our oh so christian political parties, the farmers need their income, yeah...

 

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

The Buddhists however have a different sense of balance, typically no meat, no alcohol (I’d id say to make best use of its practicality as a system outside of a fully Buddhist society, no kids, the pacifism) 

 

for those seeking and walking a spiritual path the balance is different and as long as you're not pregnant or ill you can go a while without animal proteins, it does something to the inner balance. But I would not keep it up for a long time as you need those nutrients in the long run.

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

[personally I’d prefer a Buddhist world, at least in theory…] 

 

Could everyone go without meat and drink as a rule though??? 
 

So yeah big rule book, but a lot of wiggle room. 

 

Spoiler

so these are the main rules and the small print and escape clause are up to us ...?

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

One night on the beer with a monk and his practice is probably finished, after the gambling and sex

 

Where do you draw the line BES?

 

 

I do not draw any lines for anybody, just for myself and those have changed through the decades.

It's one of the things that irritates me, christians do draw lines for others and most of them seem to think that is their godgiven right.

 

nope, if you feel obliged not to have extramarital relations because of your religion, fine

but do not push those rules on me and  judge me for it because  your rulebook simply does not apply to me.

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

@blue eyed snake ♥️ this reply. I’m so glad you kept to the topic of pregnancy so closely too.

 

I will reply in depth soon. Thankyou it really was heart felt as I was reading it. Being a Dad an all, it got me. Speak soon 💧 

[Thrice Daily]

On 17/10/2024 at 1:15 AM, Nungali said:

There was a lot in there , what do you want me to address first ?

From a Hermetic Kabbalists perspective, what kind of magical operations do you think Jesus Got up to in order to suffuse with human history the way he did? 
 

Okay sometimes questions answer themselves in a way, so here goes. I shall add… The number 1 thing that I think Jesus Got up to was expressed at the last supper. That really was it, sealing his covenant with God like in the old way but symbolically with the wine. I think it’s will this simple act that he suffused all of his human yearning as a Son of Man. I’m quite sure this is how he lives on through the ceremony each day at mass.  

He was obviously very much in touch with his Will, and Love being at the forefront, What kind of depth of insight do you think he had on the outcomes judging by his words? 

 

John 16:7: "But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you."

 

Matthew 28:19-20: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

 

Matthew 24:30-31: "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

 

Again it was with this Last Supper that Jesus really did most of his work IMHO in really taking every fibre of his concentration and placing it into the hearts and minds of his disciples via this “Bread and Wine method”. Sometimes the most simple is the most effective and can draw the most direct line from source to manifest creation. I believe this is what Jesus built on, and the faithfulness of Peter (Mostly) brought it to life and lit the flames that have been burning ever since in the presence of this offering of the “Bread and Wine method”

 

I'm suggesting intentions and words have power, of course as per the info you are immersed in you know this, to the very deepest effects is true... It is possible for free will and fate to both exist even though a paradox.. We can change what cannot be changed, in essence.

 

Now if one Adept, can effect changes that can permeate the pattern of our reality so that it undergoes real magical change through sheer intention and unwavering belief (skills and strategies additional) 

I’m predicting that all the people that have a deep faith and belief, all the way back to Jesus create a foundation that does have true and tremendous power for change “within life’s earthly patterns I.e. Miracles” [Magickal Outcomes]. 
 

I think it is by sheer force of the adherents of this code should think harm upon others, that it became so successful, widespread and is so potent and capable of carrying a current of strength to confer results. Both seen and unseen,

in the world 🌎

and in the ❤️ 

 

What if a Son of Man cashed in his very life for the purpose of unifying humanity in Love, forgiveness and humility, by being the change he wanted to see and dying for it meticulously and purposely, harnessing the power of sacrifice in himself by himself (and god and holyspirit if you like) 

And, in his magical imaginings and literally, willing it into existence (with God knows what kind of mental operations going on from what he learned on travels, speculate if you can). Could it stand the test of time? in the whole world. 

 

From your perspective?  

 

lve a nice answer for this, it’s going to take me a while to organise it in my head though so it will likely come in another comment later. It’s a deep point in and of itself and I think most Christians have this skewed when they talk about it and it simply puts a lot of people off when they hear it, I’ll have to think about it though, it’s a tricky on to condense without losing peoples attention. I’ll work on it…

 

I'm thinking of it as making the impossible possible. Like the first fish out of water, that not only managed to survive a little longer on the shore but in it's iteration was the star that managed to start growing legs...

 

Anything is possible ⭐️ 

Edited October 20 by Thrice Daily

[Thrice Daily]

Does anybody know if this is legit?

 

and more about it?

 

Having seen it a long while ago I’ve wondered about it, and it just popped up again on my YouTube .

 

 

Thanks Guy