Christianity

[Paradoxal]

16 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Birth control and abortion has been a disaster for society.

If anything has been a disaster for society, it would certainly be ill-informed folks being given a position that allows them to spread false information unchecked. You, for example, make a lot of heavy-handed claims while feigning humility and refusing to give any reliable sources; this is extremely dangerous, even if you mean well.

 

I don't think that abortion and birth control is a Christian issue, however, as the bible has no way to comment reliably on modern inventions. 

[Thrice Daily]

6 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

If anything has been a disaster for society, it would certainly be ill-informed folks being given a position that allows them to spread false information unchecked. You, for example, make a lot of heavy-handed claims while feigning humility and refusing to give any reliable sources; this is extremely dangerous, even if you mean well.

 

I don't think that abortion and birth control is a Christian issue, however, as the bible has no way to comment reliably on modern inventions. 

What do you want sources for. Happy to oblige. Unless they are opinions, in which case feel free to refute them.

 

but one at a time please and separate them by paragraph spacing.

 

Thankyou paradoxical, always enjoy reading your comments… 

 

my favourite paradox today by the way is “fake it till you make it” what’s yours?

[Thrice Daily]

27 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

quick question, were the first ever mirrors made of metal and not glass?, also what substance forms on a mirror if you leave it alone outside for long enough?

@Taoist Texts could you please tell us a little bit on this thread about ;

 

”THE BEINGS OF REFLECTED LIGHT”

 

Blessings 🙏 

[blue eyed snake]

sorry @Apech

there were some distractions

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

I would like to return to the actual 'truth-claims' made by Christianity - such as the virgin birth and the resurrection - and ask a) are they believable and b ) why does Christianity depend on them or emphasise them so highly.  This is the sticking point for me.  It is as if there is a guardian at the door saying 'believe these things or you cannot enter' - whereas I do not see this in any other religion (except perhaps Islam - a subject which I have feelings about which I will pass over in silence).

 

 

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

Why is Christianity such a strange religion?  

 

When you are confronted by it there are several things you are expected to accept:

 

- there is a supreme being who created the universe

 

this was the first topic i tackled, still in primary school, must have been about 10 years old. I concluded  it cannot be true as it begs the question: who created that supreme being. I hold to that conclusion, its one of the attractions Daoism holds for me, no need for creation, it just is.

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

- this being impregnated a virgin 

 

No way, to get a baby you need both a woman and a man. At least in those days, nowadays a woman and some sperm is deemed to be enough.

I guess the young lady herself believed the story, I envision some like this: this young, sexually totally naive woman gets visited by, for instance one of those Essenes, a spiritually highly developed guy, glowing with energy, nicely smelling, dressed in white flowing garments. He then seduces her, let her feel the first sexual arousal, lust and orgasm and leaves her pregnant. So yes, an angel, I wish every young woman such an angel. But he was a human man with human sperm.

No god, thus no virgin birth either.

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

- the child grew up to perform miracles and so on

 

Miracles,

I once had a discussion with someone who told me: jesus is the real stuff ( "legit") because in the bible it says that he was no wizard, that he did no wizardry. Many years later a bum pointed me to this interesting read wich, when I remember well, says that all those references to jesus not being a wizard were inserted because at the time wizardry was forbidden ( by the Romans) so he took good care not to be accused of wizardry.

https://wasjesusamagician.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

- he was crucified, died and then rose from the dead

 

those are 3 questions, I think he's not mentioned in the Roman annals, but for the sake of the discussion lets assume he was crucified.

There are many alternative stories, this is the one that sits best with me.

But did he die on the cross? unlikely, crucifixion was meant to be torture, that little piece of wood under the feet prevented a relatively quick death so on average the victims suffered for about 3 days. Jesus was a healthy guy in his prime so there was no reason at all for him to die that fast. So i guess that drink they gave him had a strong herb added that made him comatose "dead" some bribery from the side of Joseph allowed him to take that body from the cross.

They brought it into the grave, the ladies believed him dead, he was rubbed in with oils and a shroud was put around him.

during that night he ran a high fever, thus making the imprint in what is now known as the shroud of Turin. Woke up and left the grave. 

He walked in his physical body as Thomas shows us by wanting to touch his wounds.

regarding the unphysical appearances, I am sure these are possible for highly spiritually and energetically developed people.

As Jesus surely was a spiritually highly developed guy at least, that is how I see it.

 

we simply cannot know

 

and then he left the world/ his homeland ...to go to heaven? or to leave his homecountry because it simply became too dangerous to stay, the next time the romans caught him he may not be as lucky. 

Its not clear to which country he left but there are many stories about that.

 

we simply cannot know, but as unlikely my story may be, IMHO it's far more likely then the " official bible story"

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

 

Now, other religions have people who perform miracles (siddhis) and so on.  And some have creator Gods also.  But if you approach these religions and ask about siddhis and so on - the usual response will be 'forget about it, its not important'.

 

yup, and jesus told his followers that they would be able to do miracles as well, removing the importance from his own person.

Look guys, it's not a big thing, you could do that to if you follow my instructions.

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

 

But with Christianity it is central that not only these things happened but you believe that they did.  You have to accept.  

 

blind faith... no practice needed, no reading, no thinking.

Just believe what we say and do what we say and you will be saved. 

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

 

These factual assertions provoke questioning.  Because they are given as facts then they require proof.  Can a virgin get pregnant without having sex with a man?  Can a man perform miracles?  Can someone rise from the dead?  It flies in the face of our normal experience.  Hence the opposing position - atheism which refutes all these things, mostly on the basis that they are outside the experience of all of us.  We have never witnessed any of these things.  So why would we believe them?

 

I've experienced many things that fly in the face of our normal experience, but I guess Christians would think these are made by the devil.

I have a devout Christian friend who is more than a bit clairvoyant but denies that vehemently as it is forbidden by the particular brand of bible she follows .  🤷‍♂️ 

 

On 16-5-2024 at 1:14 AM, Apech said:

 

You don't get anything called Abuddhism, or Adaoism ... why?  Because although there are many people who are not Buddhist or Daoist the upfront claims made by Buddhism and Daoism do not provoke refutation.  Whether or not there was a historical Buddha is actually unimportant to the dharma - as with Lao Tzu ... they do not hinge on stated historical facts in the way Christianity does.

 

?

 

also in general Daoists and Buddhist do not push their belief/philosophy on others where as my experience with Christians is they are always sure they have it right and we should just convert to their ideas. That last is really bothersome, I do not push my ideas on others. Will answer when they ask ( when I feel the question comes from genuine interest that is).

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

quick question, were the first ever mirrors made of metal and not glass?, also what substance forms on a mirror if you leave it alone outside for long enough?

That was a Rhetorical question.

 

But in other words. The longer a widespread “organisational” force (trust and faith being a requirement) is in operation the more…

 

The more long term “calm” can be created. 
 

Metal - Creates Water. This is not speculation. Just simple and proven science… IMHO

Edited October 23 by Thrice Daily

[Thrice Daily]

@blue eyed snake needlessly repeated points that didn’t address the crux of the question IMO 

 

Can you do better?

[Thrice Daily]

@Cobie what you make of this , died - descended to hell - 3rd day resurrection of the body stuff ?  
 

pretty intense isn’t it 🤩 

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, Paradoxal said:

 

 

I don't think that abortion and birth control is a Christian issue, however, as the bible has no way to comment reliably on modern inventions. 

 

Interestingly, the other 2 Abrahamic religions hold different views.

 

In the Islam it is believed that the first 4 months of pregnancy the fetus is not yet ensouled. ( were those modern cristians want us to believe a child is in the uterus 2 weeks before conception ) Although they are strict on abortion, In general they deem the life of the mother more important than that of the child to be.

 

The jewish religion also puts the life of the mother above that of the child to be.

When the US went backwards and Roe versus Wade was undone, they went to seek exception because this went against their religious beliefs.

 

and then a little tidbit of info from a 100 years ago

 which 'pagan religion' would tell mums to not breastfeed because a bared tittie is sinful.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230528132442/https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/01/24/in-brabant-stierven-babys-door-taboe-op-borstvoeding-a3651624

 

 

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

@blue eyed snake “That’s not strictly true though is it, the current instantiation is there should be three exceptions as Reagan also agreed. Rape incest and harm to the mother, then should be fine”

 

Not legalised Infanticide and the sale of babies remains… 

 

these are currently the two choices, which would you say is most Christian and Least Christian?

 

Breastfeeding being frowned upon in public. Are you talking about U.K. and USA at around 1925, between  Wartimes? I think they had a lot more to worry about, but from what I understand it was a great boom period too… 

 

My little city became incredible between the world wars. But do you really want to bring the 1920’s into a discussion about Christianity?

 

id like to know more about why you think that’s helpful and what actually is it about Christianity that you are trying to illustrate as, being bad…

 

there was a lot going on in the name of Science back then, lobotomies for example.. 

 

are we going to blame a religion for that as well. It’s hard to know how to approach you BES, 

 

brilliantly trying aren’t you…

 

 

Edited October 23 by Thrice Daily

[Thrice Daily]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

I would like to return to the actual 'truth-claims' made by Christianity - such as the virgin birth and the resurrection - and ask

 

a) are they believable and

 

I don't think its required to believe them in terms of Faith, here is why. Faith is a catalyst for Experience. Again I only have my personal experience to draw from so here you are, I will share a bit. 

 

I had faith that I wanted to know Christ, but there needed to be an actual moment of genuine surrender for it to work. That happened with me, at one specific moment, I dropped my guard enough to actually let the experience in, it was unintentional and actually a reaction to fear that did it. Think this is different for different people, the bridge between faith and experience, For me it was a very stressful vision and unlike any other regular Psychic attacks that I've experienced in the past, this let to an experience with Christ and the crucifixion that even if I return to normal life. I will at the moment of death no doubt revisit it. Its too hard not too.

7 hours ago, Apech said:

b ) why does Christianity depend on them or emphasise them so highly. 

 

Again I'm sure this is more just a control measure for society, but it is an education in this story then faith that can act as a catalyst to an experience I guess, if nobody knew about it , they couldn't have an experience with God through this particular medium. Its important to really hammer home the story to keep it alive and accessible to people I'd say...

 

7 hours ago, Apech said:

This is the sticking point for me. 

 

Yes this is still a mystery to me tbh. When I had this experience of Christ there followed a few days of experience of existence like never before. (and I've played with allsorts of practices over the years). I'm talking deep insights of the universe and time collapsing and reforming from a word... I was able to use the words with conviction afterwards, "resurrection of the body and life everlasting Amen",  because of a great mystery that was revealed to me in the time that followed. 

 

It wouldn't have happened had I not had a trust in Christ, it was a gift, and maybe you could say he showed me "a neat magic trick" to get me in, but it got me in alright. Since then I had a different lens to view Christianity through. The words of the creed, "The Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, The Communion of Saints, The forgiveness Of Sins" etc... Words before that I was extremely uncomfortable saying, took on an entirely different meaning. It is almost as though the words and their meanings had come to life as a result, and sounded very different when I spoke them. 

 

I still had research to do though, so I did it, not loads but enough to know.  The Logos was familiar to me before I read about it, through this faith-experience.

7 hours ago, Apech said:

It is as if there is a guardian at the door saying 'believe these things or you cannot enter'

 

I don't think so, but I think there is a great power in this word, "word" Logos.. I'm quite sure that the more we understand the words we use the more power they will have in our lives and in the world, whatever the words. With Christian words, prayers and practices, they can only really be brought to life if there is a sincerity when these words are spoken. imho

 

And for that there must be a Trust in these words, and again Faithful Experience happens. I think this deepens in prayer. (I think this applies to all religions, deep belief systems, languages over countless Aeons). 

 

Quick example, "give us this day our daily bread"

 

If I truly practice Gratitude each day sincerely which I always try to spend at least some time doing formally. It strengthens the connection to these words when I say them in Prayer,, and each time I say it it has more meaning and more effect. Thankfulness is such a big part of my practice as a Taoist, Buddhist and a Christian.

 

I am thankful for everything, why would Christ be any different?

 

Really though as I say, the experience deepened that. There is more to it than that but that's really all I can say for now.

[Nungali]

On 23/10/2024 at 6:24 AM, Thrice Daily said:

The reason o brought up the death penalty is because when considering ancient tribes compared to the modern word it’s a very very interesting topic. 
 

going off Christianity I will share something that made me smile about a South American tribe. Can’t remember which one, but if you got caught stealing from somebody else. I guess taking without asking… 

 

The punishment is you have to do the persons bidding for a bit. The person you stole from , you’d have to become their servant for a bit.. 

 

I quite liked this one, when you break it down psychologically and psycho-socially for the group. It’s pretty funny. 😂 

 

I liked this one  ;   'stealing ?   what's that ?

 

An anthropologist noted some huts in the village had  the  door  with a stick propped up against it  from the outside jamming it  closed .

he asked why and was told  " The people there are away for a while .... no one home . "

 

Anthropologist ;  " But could not someone easily pull the stick out and open the door and go in ?  "

 

The villager was confused :  " Why would anyone want to go in if no one was home ? " 

 

Punishment - spearing .   A sort of 'test by combat ' .... fate will decide ;   bad infraction - you are allowed to dance  ( moving target, you can dodge and weave ) while they throw spears at you  , serious infraction - stand still while they throw spears at you , really serious - hold your leg out in front and twisted to the outside, stand still (exposes the femoral artery ) .  

 

[ Favorite 'punishment story'    ( and it might be an insight as to how they actually felt about it and 'worked' it ).  Mid last century a show came to town - Mexican knife thrower , flashy , full out fit and  attractive assistant  (target ) .  he came out to the place ( La perouse , outside of Sydney ) where aboriginals used to demonstrate their skills with boomerang , spears and a snake show , then pass the hat around . Mexican wanted to see it , at the end he talked to them, showed them his knives, they where very impressed with them  and then he put on hos own show ( to promote his act ) .   Set the woman assistant against a wooden board and outlined her with thrown knives .  The aboriginals where totally confused about what was happening  until one of them worked it out and explained it to the others , then they all smiled and understood ;  " That must be his wife and she has been unfaithful to him, so she MUST be punished , according to Law , but we can tell he really must love her  as  its easy to see he deliberately missed every shot . "

 

In a tribe where you share all, how can you steal anything ?  But strangely enough, your most treasured possession can be stolen ! ... your wife, your children .....  your spirit  

 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Nungali

[Thrice Daily]

12 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

I liked this one  ;   'stealing ?   what's that ?

 

An anthropologist noted some huts in the village had  the  door  with a stick propped up against it  from the outside jamming it  closed .

he asked why and was told  " The people there are away for a while .... no one home . "

 

Anthropologist ;  " But could not someone easily pull the stick out and open the door and go in ?  "

 

The villager was confused :  " Why would anyone want to go in if no one was home ? " 

 

Punishment - spearing .   A sort of 'test by combat ' .... fate will decide ;   bad infraction - you are allowed to dance  ( moving target, you can dodge and weave ) while they throw spears at you  , serious infraction - stand still while they throw spears at you , really serious - hold your leg out in front and twisted to the outside, stand still (exposes the femoral artery ) .  

 

[ Favorite 'punishment story'    ( and it might be an insight as to how they actually felt about it and 'worked' it ).  Mid last century a show came to town - Mexican knife thrower , flashy , full out fit and  attractive assistant  (target ) .  he came out to the place ( La perouse , outside of Sydney ) where aboriginals used to demonstrate their skills with boomerang , spears and a snake show , then pass the hat around . Mexican wanted to see it , at the end he talked to them, showed them his knives, they where very impressed with them  and then he put on hos own show ( to promote his act ) .   Set the woman assistant against a wooden board and outlined her with thrown knives .  The aboriginals where totally confused about what was happening  until one of them worked it out and explained it to the others , then they all smiled and understood ;  " That must be his wife and she has been unfaithful to him, so she MUST be punished , according to Law , but we can tell he really must love her  as  its easy to see he deliberately missed every shot . "

 

In a tribe where you share all, how can you steal anything ?  But strangely enough, your most treasured possession can be stolen ! ... your wife, your children .....  your spirit  

Cool Story; so the aboriginals punished wives for infidelity?  was that considered bad , serious or really serious?

 

Was it the same rule for the Blokes? Or was he just observing the Mexicans likely attitude?

 

Sheesh, I think we need to evolve from this infidelity thing, (but not further into sterility, still keep having kids somehow) and develop some compersion within our societal structures,  carefully. 

Edited October 23 by Thrice Daily

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Ok so why are we saying Christianity is bad again? 
 

It created those systems;

 

I heard it used to have the best education system, best healthcare system lots of free services, childcare. And over one year maternity and paternity leave so both Mom and Dad get paid to have all that time off with baby, wow that is incredible.

 

A Christian country created those conditions (most of the west to a lesser extent) 

And a Swedish public that largely respected the Law (where did western law come from mostly?)

 

The police were respected. The place flourished very well… 

 

So is Christianity bad for modern peoples. 
 

seems it’s only gone bad because people are ignoring the values, not following the laws, making the place too dangerous 

 

And taking advantage of the very charitable economic system that is set up to help those in need.

 

Labouring on the assumption that everybody of fit working age will want to be useful and of service the Swedes , they were trusted. 
 

All these Morals and Collective values were built on the back of Christianity.

 

When after all the warring and battling against in the beginning had died down. (Sorry but that’s true)

 

The true Light💡 of Christianity began to illuminate the old ways gather them and turn inwardly. To combust internally in individuals/societies that were no longer fractured and disconnected in beliefs/villages and create the institutions and infrastructure we only really have in western modernity;

 

• Great Roads
• Great Hospitals
• Schooling For All
• High Literacy Rates
• Jesus Even Clean Water
• Safe Communities 

 

When the light of Christianity shone inwardly and shaped our collective values of shared decency over time we were able to build businesses that could actually create and sustain all this infrastructure.

 

Not gangs walking the streets without gainful employment living off the senses and their carnal desires. 
 

Try going to Northern India - Kashmir and riding on a bus late at night as a Women??? 
 

The West is now going the same way in terms of these dangers. 
 

What does that tell you about values and which direction we are moving in?
 

If we believe we have this one life to live through over and over again and we cannot change what we have done once it’s done. How would we live? I can’t understand people that live without conscience? 
 

But they are everywhere, they will go out at night killing and doing worse, wake up in the morning and not even think about it.

 

This this Barbarianism, and this is learned behaviour, even taught behaviour. It’s crazy. 
 

Christianity might seem boring, might seem childish , might seem contradictory. But if you look at it carefully, and look at yourself carefully.. you will see Christianity has not done such a bad job.

 

You are reading this and you are probably a good person. I’m sorry you feel this got beaten into you and your culture.. I really am… 

 

But you’ve got to suck it up I’m afraid.. there is a lot more to be on the Good Side against , if you are a good person in your ❤️ at least in the world today.

 

A lot of evil and viciousness. Are you for that or against that. It’s really quite that simple, culturally speaking… 

 

Here and Now, not 2000 years ago… It’s still the same story, what YOU going to do about it?

 

(Civilised or Uncivilised , what’s are these to words, what do they mean anyway?? Another topic starter perhaps) 

 

 

Ummmm ...  lot of the things you attribute to Christianity , actually come from the modern enlightenment  movement AWAY from rule by church and royal genetic lineage .   You know, Freemasonry , the French Revolution, the founding of the USA  ?

 

As in Freemasonry , within the  founders of  the USA  there were Christians among them  – no deists – but the key Founders who were most responsible for the founding documents (Declaration of Independence and Constitution) and who had the most influence were 'theistic rationalists'. 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Nope I’m not suggesting anything to do with that..

 

what I have suggested is I think contraception and abortion has led to disaster in society.

 

your former tribes certainly did not have those problems..

 

Indeed they didnt   AND they had  contraception and abortion ... so what is your point ?

 

Or did you assume that 'former tribes' never did this , didnt have modern problems ,  ergo , Christianity - good socially  (based on wrong knowledge ) 

 

or what ????

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

these problems are very modern and very unchristian too/ who are much more aligned with your tribes people of old.

 

RIGHT THAT SHOULD CLEAR THINGS UP. any more please ask, but please don’t repeat previous points unless you require further clarification 

 

as seen above you got me a bit wrong, I wasn’t suggesting what you thought,,, AT ALL

 

but I’m glad you brought it up, clarifying was helpful so I’ll say again, thankyou

 

[Thrice Daily]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Ummmm ...  lot of the things you attribute to Christianity , actually come from the modern enlightenment  movement AWAY from rule by church and royal genetic lineage .   You know, Freemasonry , the French Revolution, the founding of the USA  ?

 

As in Freemasonry , within the  founders of  the USA  there were Christians among them  – no deists – but the key Founders who were most responsible for the founding documents (Declaration of Independence and Constitution) and who had the most influence were 'theistic rationalists'. 

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly... Too much?

 

Fair comment though, that really helps at the moment, and colours my understanding, thankyou for the introspect. 

 

I was caught up on middle america, should have rewound to pen. In God We Trust etc

[Thrice Daily]

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Indeed they didnt   AND they had  contraception and abortion ... so what is your point ?

 

Or did you assume that 'former tribes' never did this , didnt have modern problems ,  ergo , Christianity - good socially  (based on wrong knowledge ) 

 

or what ????

 

 

 

 

need more depth on what you're saying for clarity? Do you think the modern debates on abortion are a smoke screen for something else? 

 

You'd have to define what you mean by modern problems, modern as in our modern or? Abortion in the past is totally different to now, I cant disregard the seriousness of child birth back then either (its was like 50/50 chance of death for mother no?), we are almost polar opposite today quick c section and women are home, ,

 

The impacts abortions have produced that I am pointing towards in modern day are impossible to see without assessing modernity as it is, so multifaceted, and so far from nature (Tamasic if you will). 

 

I consider this a disaster, I could go into detail only I wanted to refrain in case it got too personal for people...

Edited October 23 by Thrice Daily

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

@Cobie what you make of this , died - descended to hell - 3rd day resurrection of the body stuff ?  
 

pretty intense isn’t it 🤩 

 

From late friday to sometime before Sunday morning  is NOT   3 days .

 

I might try to get away with that on my work  time sheet but my boss would be right onto it .

[Nungali]

15 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly... Too much?

 

Fair comment though, that really helps at the moment, and colours my understanding, thankyou for the introspect. 

 

I was caught up on middle america, should have rewound to pen. In God We Trust etc

 

One can trust in God without being a Christian .

[Thrice Daily]

26 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Ummmm ...  lot of the things you attribute to Christianity , actually come from the modern enlightenment  movement AWAY from rule by church and royal genetic lineage .   You know, Freemasonry , the French Revolution, the founding of the USA  ?

 

As in Freemasonry , within the  founders of  the USA  there were Christians among them  – no deists – but the key Founders who were most responsible for the founding documents (Declaration of Independence and Constitution) and who had the most influence were ''. 

theistic rationalists - so they embraced Christian Morals and hard baked them into America...

 

I was commenting on safety so it was the Christian Morals I was referring to that shaped the West. Culturally we are all Christians to at least some degree no?

Edited October 23 by Thrice Daily

[Thrice Daily]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

One can trust in God without being a Christian .

I agree 100% 

[Nungali]

11 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

need more depth on what you're saying for clarity? Do you think the modern debates on abortion are a smoke screen for something else? 

 

Sorry but I am finding your posts increasingly confusing .   I think the debates are people expressing their views opinions and hopes . It isnt a smoke screen its rather clear who s in what camp and what for .

 

11 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

You'd have to define what you mean by modern problems, modern as in our modern or?

 

confused again as it was you that defined the modern problems .

 

 

11 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Abortion in the past is totally different to now, and the impacts it has produced that I am pointing towards in modern day. 

 

I consider this a disaster, I could go into detail only I wanted to refrain in case it got too personal for people...

 

I'll try again and go step by step and try for some clarity  ;

 

 First , do you think ancient tribal people had contraception and abortion and practised it  ?

[S:C]

11 hours ago, Apech said:

would like to return to the actual 'truth-claims' made by Christianity - such as the virgin birth and the resurrection - and ask a) are they believable and b ) why does Christianity depend on them or emphasise them so highly.

Were those about the physical form? 

A virgin birth of the Holy Spirit seems to me more revolutionary than of a physical baby who might karmically ‚inherit‘ that or ‚birth‘ it ‚himself‘. 

Also the death part, going there and returning in physical form might be an odd NDE, even the Orphics seemed to have known this one before. But returning from there also in spirit form might be more gangsta. 
 

Btw where do you meet mystical Christian’s these days? I thought those went into hiding long ago…?(while fleeing oppression and falsification of authority, power and institutions that wanted to corrupt the teachings to their advantage. Etc etc bla bla sorry.)

Edited October 23 by S:C

[Thrice Daily]

16 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 First , do you think ancient tribal people had contraception and abortion and practised it  ?

Of course yeah, it wasn't advertised though and wasn't chemical.  The natural habit supported it. See post below  

Edited October 23 by Thrice Daily

[Thrice Daily]

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Sorry but I am finding your posts increasingly confusing .   I think the debates are people expressing their views opinions and hopes . It isnt a smoke screen its rather clear who s in what camp and what for .

Ok I see where you are now. Much of the modern abortion situation in public consciousness is more political and about getting votes, particularly the USA at the moment...

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

confused again as it was you that defined the modern problems .

I'll clear it up a bit, modern problems that effect abortion and birthrate issues involve;

• Big Food and Big Pharma
• Parabens and Flouride
• Chemical and Plastics
• Lower Sperm Counts
• Rampant Gender Dysphoria 
• Maladaptive Porn Use

the list goes on. Tribalism is not proving good for our times, imho. Urban tribalism at its finest is gang culture and mostly problematic for society most agree. A lot of people are too frightened to have kids, in this world..

 

And they grow too old before they feel its important. Not all but many regret not having children. I thin its very sad , abortion many females regret having them. Role models for our future kids are increasingly cool older single people exhibiting freedom on social media. The family is broken... and crime is rampant.

[Nungali]

14 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Of course yeah, it wasn't advertised though and wasn't chemical.  Course I had a Girlfriend who grew up in India and wondered about her Papaya habit for a shy while...

 

And do you think that  abortion and contraception, 'back then' created the same problems you seem to be attributing to society now because of abortion and contraception ?