Christianity

[Klinsly]

On 5/15/2024 at 8:37 PM, Taomeow said:

 

Parthenogenesis, aka asexual reproduction, aka immaculate conception, does occur in nature, although seldom in vertebrate species.    In humans (as well as other primates), it also happens on occasion, but in every single case results in a tumor rather than a god.  Theoretically it might be possible to accomplish via genetic manipulations, except the resulting organism could only be female and the exact replica of the mother at that.  If some geneticists from some "kingdom not of this earth" were to induce it in virgin Mary, the child would have been a little virgin Mary all over again.  Although if all the genetic material from a man's spermatozoon were to be implanted artificially into Mary's egg, perhaps that would also count as immaculate conception, since artificial insemination happens outside the sinful act.  In which case the baby had a 50% chance of being male.  I have long suspected some extraneous genetic shenanigans with our species -- not because of Christian stories, chiefly for other reasons, but some of those stories do start making some sense if you allow for this possibility -- and only in this case.

 

 

  

The weird part is in some Orthodox  maybe.. But certainly in the esoteric traditions of like Daskalos (Stylianos Atteshilis) a Western Bodhisattva that I'm into. Mary was a virgin birth as well as an incarnated Arch Angel making her the perfect vessel for giving birth to Divinity I suppose.  According to them as well, John the Baptist, and John the cousin of Jesus were also incarnated Arch angels through Virgin births sent in to be his servants. There is the verse about Elizabeth conceiving John the Baptist when she was old and barren this is likely referring to this after editing. Since Jesus can be the only one to christians. This is all according to the Akashic record/ this mystics abitilty to enter at-one-ment  With Jesus or could be called Theosis. Yes it's all speculative for us less evolved souls. But he seems very trustworthy there are several posts about him on here. Also From the book Joshua Immanuel the christ which is an akashic gospel he wrote through these means and his own past life as an Essene Novice at the time.

 

I'm kinda of that radical belief anything is possible so for the divine to able to just poof a woman pregnant and materialize a life within her isn't that weird to me. These beings can supposedly just manifest a body out of the Aether if they want to show up here. The better question is why would they take human births then unless it was truly significant. 

[Klinsly]

The simple answer to why it is so strange, is because it got co-opted by Rome early on and removed tons of the truth like Reincarnation the ascent of the soul to its true divine nature and more through councils so the original tradition had to go underground, but still exists today as Esoteric Christianity but even that has tons of sects/beliefs. The best I've found to the closest to the original is likely Rosicrucians.. well some of them, some are more questionable as many groups claim that title now. And the possible original inner tradition still going through Daskalos' teachings and group the Researchers of Truth, formerly the white lodge or brotherhood who supposedly regularly have 7 or so incarnated Bodhisattva masters on the earth working privately till some Racist folks in history screwed that name up for everyone. 

 

There is also the concept of two streams of Judaism through Moses, then Akhenaten  which this group says is the same soul in sequential lives.   Moses' tradition is most of the Old testament where it got conquered and corrupted by outside practices many times. The other became the Essenes and stayed for the most part pure/and non violent and healers. The books of the prophets were likely these guys constantly calling out the other group for falling. These streams reemerged as the Original Christianity thus why it's so confusing. because everything from both streams flowed into one with all the baggage and stuff it picked up along the way. The Essenes  mostly disappeared into just becoming the first Christians. Later groups like the Templars were  said to have been given the inner teachings of the symbol or tree of life by their remnants in Cyprus during the Crusades. which likely spawned our current western esoteric systems which is why they are similar but also quite different.

 

Books like The Magus of Strovolos is a good introduction to this man and system. but he also wrote several himself of teachings and practices and Daniel Joseph one of his student's The whale series also goes into depth about the teachings.

https://researchersoftruth.com/

Edited May 21 by Klinsly
spelling.

[Mark Foote]

57 minutes ago, Apech said:

I would remind the celebrated souls of DaoBums that we have a thread on the gospel of Thomas 
 

 

 

Ignoring that remark, and having established a basis, I now move to the central question of the thread:  "why is Christianity so weird."

 

The great ones have difficulty conveying the means of their own attainment to others, that's why. 

 

Gautama reflected on the difficulty of teaching, and only decided to go forward with teaching after the appeal of a celestial one for him to do so.

Gautama at least had a companion with a photographic memory for sound, or so the story goes.  His attendant Ananda is purported to be the "I' in the "Thus have I heard" that begins many of the Pali sermons.  And Gautama is unique in teaching the four arising of mindfulness and the states of concentration, and connecting those states to a particular insight into suffering.

The teaching of Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas is as close as we have to a record of Jesus's actual practice, IMHO.  Did everybody find that passage I quoted made good sense to them?  In the Gospel of Thomas, the impression is left that Thomas was the only one of Jesus's disciples who got something of what Jesus actually had to offer, in the way of a teaching.  And Thomas apparently didn't do well at getting it across, if Dr. King's story about his death by stoning in the south of India is to be believed. 

 

Jesus did not do well at getting it across, even though people are still moved two millennia later.  Paul's perverse version of Jesus's teaching has perhaps provided more people with a vehicle for selfless action in this world than Jesus's own teachings.

Gautama wound up eating a meal offering that killed him, some months after he ate it (a pig that ate a poisoned mushroom?).  In his prescient way, Gautama told everyone else at the meal that he was the only one whose karma allowed eating of that particular offering.  Gautama continued to teach for some months afterward, offering some of his most remarkable teachings in that period (no closed fist of the teacher regarding the esoteric aspects of the teaching, being a lamp to oneself regardless of any teachers and teachings).  

The difficulty is in the explanation of the teachings.  The number of meditation manuals that have been written since time immemorial testifies to that difficulty.  I believe a better one can be written, out of the materials Eastern and Western that we now have available to us.  Whether people will feel inspired to utilize such a manual without the provider of the manual demonstrating an otherworldly presence or performing miracles, that's another matter.

The cost of failing to provide a truly useful description to the folks making the offerings or to the powers that be, is clear.  On the other hand, how exactly is someone to be persuaded to let go the arms and legs, and the jaw too?   To experience something like blue, white, and red lotuses that never break the surface of the water--while suffusing each particle of the body with no particle left out with ease--and then "make an image in the place of an image"? 

Holding a bent-knee posture, on the floor or standing, for any length of time, reveals necessity placing consciousness.

 

 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

Actually, it is possible to nail down Buddha Nature. There is a teaching on precisely this point in Bön called The Twenty One Nails. Each “nail” is a teaching on one aspect of Buddha Nature intended to support realization. When we “get it” we gain a degree of irreversible certainty in our view and practice that is the basis for using the “nail” metaphor. On the dzogchen path, the most important step is to develop certainty in the view and practice, to nail it down. This is the meaning of direct introduction.

 

I don't agree  with that idea unless in the context of saying that  any Tom, Dick, Harry, Sally, Sue or yogi can just use methods, but if so then the problem would be that diabolical corruption could also use such methods and thus corrupt what then would not be true Buddha nature.

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, old3bob said:

lets see, we can't nail down the Great Tao, we can't nail down Buddha nature, we can't nail down the Self, we can't nail down mysticism,  the we can't nail down the absolute, and btw the way neither we can nail down Jesus.  (and I'm not saying they are all the same which would be a new age nail and hammer)

 

Of all of them ..... you dont think Jesus was nailed down ? 

 

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

Of all of them ..... you dont think Jesus was nailed down ? 

 

 

Do you think he has PTSD that nails would trigger?? 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

well now, as Mark might say he got up and walked away from the cross.

 

Dont start THAT ..... you know who is going to turn up   

 

(   sometimes Zen gets up and walks around . )

[Nungali]

8 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Do you think he has PTSD that nails would trigger?? 

 

Nails , crosses, whips,  ummmm ...... crown made of thorns  .... < thinking >     maybe the hammer that drove the nails in ? 

 

Not sure . but definitely the cross, scourge. nails and thorns ..... all images on the glass panels of a friend's  double front doors , they got them from an old  catholic nun's convent  .... all items for 'spiritual contemplation '   .

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Dont start THAT ..... you know who is going to turn up   

 

(   sometimes Zen gets up and walks around . )

 

does a  walk-about down under get up and walk around?

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

I don't agree  with that idea unless in the context of saying that  any Tom, Dick, Harry, Sally, Sue or yogi can just use methods, but if so then the problem would be that diabolical corruption could also use such methods and thus corrupt what then would not be true Buddha nature.

 

Well the point of dzogchen is that it is the method of no-method. You already are the essential nature of all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Many people have disagreed with the idea historically but fortunately awakening doesn’t depend on anyone’s agreement.

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Do you think he has PTSD that nails would trigger?? 

 

That would suck.  Makes it hard to find work as a carpenter.  Then again, I imagine that many people who come back from the dead are looking to start a second career anyway.

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

Well the point of dzogchen is that it is the method of no-method. You already are the essential nature of all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Many people have disagreed with the idea historically but fortunately awakening doesn’t depend on anyone’s agreement.

 

ok with the essential nature already being inherent,  as in not made, not compounded, etc...but many would say that the idea of only man made methods is fine but not enough,  like good works only is not enough

Edited May 22 by old3bob

[old3bob]

some knew/remember the inner love hippie from the 60's & 70's    (beats a lot of what is going on nowadays)

 

 

[Daniel]

On 5/21/2024 at 4:43 AM, Apech said:

 

So the original prophesy refers to a young woman but the Gospel writers thought this meant a virgin 'intacto' and so they made up the story that Mary was a virgin when she conceived Christ?  Because presumably they wanted to show that Jesus fulfilled prophesy and was indeed the messiah who was foretold.

 

That's not what I have in mind.  Is that in the article?

 

Quote

 

That's quite interesting because there is quite a lot a vagueness about the Jesus family - for instance I don't think we get told what happened to Joseph, while Mary remains quite prominent.  Also Jesus is supposed to have brothers James and Judas (not Iscariot another one) - and also there is some suggestion that because Thomas means twin and he was called Thomas Didymus (also means twin) that he was also a (possibly even twin) brother of Christ also.  In the Gospel of John Jesus tells him (John) to look after Mary as his own mother.  

 

I agree.  

 

Quote

Given there was a Jesus family, and possibly quite a lot of them, (although James is martyred ) what happened to the others and where did they go?  I think most of the apostles are crucified except John who presumably whisked Mary away to safety.  Which brings us to the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail idea that there is a hidden bloodline of Jesus somewhere in Europe.  I find this idea very appealing but one wonders what they have been up to for 2000 years.

 

Why would they be hidden?  If they're alive, are they in danger?  If they were to become public, would they be believed?   

 

Quote

I am also quite keen on the mystery Jesus which actually picks up on some ancient myths concerning the sacrificed/wounded king - and pop up again in the High Middle ages in Arthurian myth (the Fisher King). 

 

Yes, the gospel story includes several elements which are considered by biblical critical scholars as common mythology motifs.

 

Quote

Historically true or not there's no doubt that the Jesus story taps in to some deep narrative themes which underpin European culture.  The same narratives which Tolkien tried to revive in his works LOTR etc.

 

I think it goes further than that. The Christian bible is tapping into cross cultural, universal themes because its intended audience is not geo-specific.  If so, this explains why elements of the story and the lessons taught are found elsewhere and underpin the human experience. 

  

Edited May 22 by Daniel

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

That's not what I have in mind.  Is that in the article?

 

I actually can't remember if it is in the article or if I just extrapolated it as a conclusion.

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

I agree.  

 

 

Why would they be hidden?  If they're alive, are they in danger?  If they were to become public, would they be believed?   

 

Christians were persecuted and martyred systematically - I think that perhaps only John escaped this fate - so I think they would have been in danger certainly.  Would they be believed - I don't know.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

Yes, the gospel story includes several elements which are considered by biblical critical scholars as common mythology motifs.

 

But of course this can be interpreted as Christ fulfilling the law - if you take the law to be the predictions of the ancient world.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

I think it goes further than that. The Christian bible is tapping into cross cultural, universal themes because its intended audience is not geo-specific.  If so, this explains why elements of the story and the lessons taught are found elsewhere and underpin the human experience. 

  

 

I would not exclude what you say but was specifically talking about European history and culture which was informed by the story of Christ and at the same time shaped it into a form which became the basis for it.

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

does a  walk-about down under get up and walk around?

 

That is done by Aboriginals ... not by 'Zen'  .

[liminal_luke]

Just now, kyoji said:

you guys are sick in the head.

 

 

Guilty as charged.  Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

[kyoji]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

woah calm down!  That’s not good.

how telling that most of the people of this blog gets more upset about troon ideology than they do tasteless jokes about holy people suffering beyond our capability to understand. sign of the times. Kali Yug is ramping up.

Edited May 23 by kyoji
typo

[kyoji]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Guilty as charged.  Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

you want to quote the bible after making jokes like that? perverse and sick.

[liminal_luke]

Just now, kyoji said:

you want to quote the bible after making jokes like that? perverse and sick.

 

I´m not Christian, kyoji, and don´t believe the Bible is the word of God.  Does the Bible contain mystical wisdom?  I´m guessing that it does although I haven´t studied it in any kind of in-depth way.  I do believe there´s great value in humor and that, in general, we´d make more serious progress in life if we didn´t take ourselves and our pet issues so seriously.  Still, I didn´t mean to offend.  My apologies.

[Maddie]

12 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I´m not Christian, kyoji, and don´t believe the Bible is the word of God.  Does the Bible contain mystical wisdom?  I´m guessing that it does although I haven´t studied it in any kind of in-depth way.  I do believe there´s great value in humor and that, in general, we´d make more serious progress in life if we didn´t take ourselves and our pet issues so seriously.  Still, I didn´t mean to offend.  My apologies.

 

I apologize for nothing except being hilarious lol.  Luke you did nothing wrong 

 

*this forum used to be filled with interesting people and interesting discussions. Now there are a lot of Z gen's that get triggered by farts and giggles. 

Edited May 23 by Maddie

[Apech]

18 minutes ago, kyoji said:

how telling that most of the people of this blog gets more upset about troon ideology than they do tasteless jokes about holy people suffering beyond our capability to understand. sign of the times. Kali Yug is ramping up.

It’s a DaoBums rule not to attack or demean another poster that’s all - it’s not the end of the world.

[kyoji]

8 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I apologize for nothing except being hilarious lol.  Luke you did nothing wrong 

 

*this forum used to be filled with interesting people and interesting discussions. Now there are a lot of Z gen's that get triggered by farts and giggles. 

yeah it was.... before everyone left because Sean showed up and turned this place into a big gay disco.

[liminal_luke]

7 minutes ago, kyoji said:

yeah it was.... before everyone left because Sean showed up and turned this place into a big gay disco.

 

In my (extensive!) experience, big gay discos are not often attended by nondualists or their detractors.  I would love to go to a big gay disco with a Buddhist section, lots of sweaty queer mystics reclining on orange throw cushions, reciting mantras between sips of cheap well drinks and flirting in Pali.  

Edited May 23 by liminal_luke

[Maddie]

18 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

In my (extensive!) experience, big gay discos are not often attended by nondualists or their detractors.  I would love to go to a big gay disco with a Buddhist section, lots of sweaty queer mystics reclining on orange throw cushions, reciting mantras between sips of cheap well drinks and flirting in Pali.  

 

Where can I sign up for this big gay disco? :-)