DreamBliss

Is There Any Way to Know it is Real?

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Posted (edited)

I recently found a book by Eric Robison titled, "Bending God." In it the author speaks of a guy named Eric Peppin. A psychic, with abilities and powers. I want to know if I have finally found someone who can do what is being said of them.

 

I am ashamed to admit I have been looking for a real spiritual teacher. Someone who can easily work at the energetic level and do things I would label as "outside physical abilities."

 

I read these experiences others say they have had all the time. Robert Monroe going out of body. Robert Moss and his shamanic dreaming. The guy whose name I can't spell levitating in Autobiography of a Yogi. Ramtha just taking his physical body with him.

 

I want to witness someone doing these things, directly. No tricks, no BS. I want to hit the core beliefs I have about reality so hard they shatter, just like they did when I renounced my faith and stopped being a Christian.

 

This all assuming these things are even real. Maybe none of it is. But I want to know for sure. I want to experience for myself. I no longer want generationally held hand-me-down beliefs.

 

I want to experience something so powerful that my mind won't be able to excuse it away. I want to be left changed forever by it.

 

Maybe this is a foolish desire to have. But I am at a critical time in my life. I keep finding myself disappointed by the books I have read. It's getting bad enough that I am starting to hate books!

 

I feel that everyone is either outright lying, or exaggerating. How am I to know the actual things that will bring fundamental, meaningful and substantial change right now, in this moment?

 

I do not want enlightenment and could care less about it. I have neither the energy or time to devote to some decades long practice for which the results I have to take on faith. I want to do something, today, period.

 

Is there any sort of practice I can do that is guaranteed to bring results that challenge physical reality? I am open to anything, especially anything that has been used successfully by the one suggesting it.

 

Failing that, are there any real teachers I can contact, who would be able to guide me through some sort of reality challenging experience? I sent an email to Robert Moss. He was very rude. Ram Dass has passed. Eric Peppin seems uncontactable.

 

I'm very tired, on every level. I am weary of my life and the seemingly concrete box of an experience of reality I am locked into. I want to know if the things in this book I am reading are true. I don't know how to ask that in Eric Peppin's Discord. Any advice?

 

I keep thinking that if I could just know for sure there is more to life than this, like everyone seems to be saying, if I could experience that in a fundamental, meaningful and substantial way, maybe, just maybe I could figure out what to do or where to go from that elevated perspective. Or maybe I would suddenly just know what to do next.

 

But the main thing is I would have something powerful and strong enough to fundamentally, meaningfully and substantially change my life. Something real, something I experienced for myself that left no doubt. This is not just what I want. I need this, for reasons I am not allowed to go into here.

 

I really and truly appreciate your help with this! If you could get me a 1on1 with a real teacher experienced in outside physical reality (who isn't gonna throw prices and limited time offers at me) you would be helping me to alter the trajectory of my life. This is something I desperately need right now.

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited by DreamBliss

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Hi DB .

 

In my experience, what you seek came to me after a long time , dedication and practice . And the amount of BS ego and false claims I had to wade through to get there !

 

I am sorry , I cant offer a shortcut to you .  I am also sorry that the abhorrent maze of dead ends and false spiritual paths ensnared you .Also my hard arse and critical attitude  made it tough to crack a  nut like me   - that was an effort .... however my hard critical attitude did help stop me from getting to deeply involved in falsehoods . I eventually got my 'certainty' and my proofs .

 

" I give unimaginable joys on earth: certainty, not faith, while in life, upon death; peace unutterable, rest, ecstasy; nor do I demand aught in sacrifice. "

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Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2024 at 5:59 AM, DreamBliss said:

I keep finding myself disappointed by the books I have read. It's getting bad enough that I am starting to hate books!

 

I feel that everyone is either outright lying, or exaggerating. How am I to know the actual things that will bring fundamental, meaningful and substantial change right now, in this moment?

 

 

Maybe the next evolutionary leap of humanity.

 

Will be defined in terms of people becoming disillusioned with answers in books, tv and the internet.

 

Resulting in elevated trends of them making a more determined and concentrated effort to learn to better think for themselves.

 

There isn't much growth potential at the top. Most motivated upper tier elites are already at max capacity. 

 

But there is tremendous growth potential at the bottom for those who have yet to tap their own potential.

 

That is where the biggest gains can be made for society.

Edited by Sanity Check

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@DreamBliss,

 

Thank you for your passionate inquiry.  I appreciate what you've written, and I think, I can't say for sure, but I think I understand what you're feeling.  If I understand, what you've written resonates deeply with how I feel in many ways.  Based on what you've written, again, if I understand properly, there is a great deal to discuss.  In my opinion, the items below are where the discussion should begin:

 

#1:

 

On 5/24/2024 at 8:59 AM, DreamBliss said:

This is not just what I want. I need this, for reasons I am not allowed to go into here.

 

Noted.  You need this.  It is not a want.  Details are not and will not be provided here.  I won't ask.

 

On 5/24/2024 at 8:59 AM, DreamBliss said:

Is there any sort of practice I can do that is guaranteed to bring results that challenge physical reality? I am open to anything.

 

This, my friend, if it is literally true, is a very dangerous position..  Anything includes a lot. 

 

Do you really mean it?  Anything?  Literally?

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For most, reality-bending abilities, if they come, come after decades of dedicated practice.  But the good thing is that a person can start on a path and see real life-changing results way before entering the miracle zone.  Even if you´re not walking through walls in a year, you can absolutely be happier, more grounded, a better Bum in so many prosaic but meaningful ways.  No shame, by the way, for wanting to walk through walls.  I want that too!  There´s a lot of juicy low hanging fruit though -- I´d pick that first.

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Posted (edited)

I bend reality all the time, in VR.  FEAR ME oh dots and dashes of light, for I have destroyed you a 1,000 times.  

 

In the tic toc world there's a fundamental practice linked to a difficult koan I'm working on inorder to reach the first jhana which promises bliss and joy centered on inner peace of being.  The ideal is, in time to move beyond it but seems like a worthwhile step.  

 

As far as real, I find nouns (people, place and things) real.  Whereas pronouns, verbs, adverbs seem transitory. 

Also, if it doesn't drive you mad, I find there's much to gain in believing competing paradigms.   

Edited by thelerner
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12 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

Also, if it doesn't drive you mad, I find there's much to gain in believing competing paradigms.   

 

Logical consistency -- way overrated!  

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On 5/24/2024 at 11:59 AM, DreamBliss said:

I recently found a book by Eric Robison titled, "Bending God." In it the author speaks of a guy named Eric Peppin. A psychic, with abilities and powers. I want to know if I have finally found someone who can do what is being said of them.

 

I am ashamed to admit I have been looking for a real spiritual teacher. Someone who can easily work at the energetic level and do things I would label as "outside physical abilities."

 

I read these experiences others say they have had all the time. Robert Monroe going out of body. Robert Moss and his shamanic dreaming. The guy whose name I can't spell levitating in Autobiography of a Yogi. Ramtha just taking his physical body with him.

 

I want to witness someone doing these things, directly. No tricks, no BS. I want to hit the core beliefs I have about reality so hard they shatter, just like they did when I renounced my faith and stopped being a Christian.

 

This all assuming these things are even real. Maybe none of it is. But I want to know for sure. I want to experience for myself. I no longer want generationally held hand-me-down beliefs.

 

I want to experience something so powerful that my mind won't be able to excuse it away. I want to be left changed forever by it.

 

Maybe this is a foolish desire to have. But I am at a critical time in my life. I keep finding myself disappointed by the books I have read. It's getting bad enough that I am starting to hate books!

 

I feel that everyone is either outright lying, or exaggerating. How am I to know the actual things that will bring fundamental, meaningful and substantial change right now, in this moment?

 

I do not want enlightenment and could care less about it. I have neither the energy or time to devote to some decades long practice for which the results I have to take on faith. I want to do something, today, period.

 

Is there any sort of practice I can do that is guaranteed to bring results that challenge physical reality? I am open to anything, especially anything that has been used successfully by the one suggesting it.

 

Failing that, are there any real teachers I can contact, who would be able to guide me through some sort of reality challenging experience? I sent an email to Robert Moss. He was very rude. Ram Dass has passed. Eric Peppin seems uncontactable.

 

I'm very tired, on every level. I am weary of my life and the seemingly concrete box of an experience of reality I am locked into. I want to know if the things in this book I am reading are true. I don't know how to ask that in Eric Peppin's Discord. Any advice?

 

I keep thinking that if I could just know for sure there is more to life than this, like everyone seems to be saying, if I could experience that in a fundamental, meaningful and substantial way, maybe, just maybe I could figure out what to do or where to go from that elevated perspective. Or maybe I would suddenly just know what to do next.

 

But the main thing is I would have something powerful and strong enough to fundamentally, meaningfully and substantially change my life. Something real, something I experienced for myself that left no doubt. This is not just what I want. I need this, for reasons I am not allowed to go into here.

 

I really and truly appreciate your help with this! If you could get me a 1on1 with a real teacher experienced in outside physical reality (who isn't gonna throw prices and limited time offers at me) you would be helping me to alter the trajectory of my life. This is something I desperately need right now.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

 

 

It's healthy to be disillusioned with the spiritual community.


Everywhere as far as the eye can see is BS.


To weed out the BS, ask for evidence.


You need scientists and doctors in a controlled environment to document these abilities, and record their findings on video.


If the teachers aren't willing to provide that then most likely it's a hoax.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Another way is to turn it all on its head .  How can one do that ?   By changing one's perception !

 

I see miracles everyday in the 'normal natural world' .  Because of our conditioning, we turn a blind eye to it and slot it into our consciousness as normal, everyday, natural, understood and rational experience .

 

But that is just a way of looking at things .

 

I get wonder and excitement from finding a seed , taking it home , nurturing it,  watching it sprout, helping it grow, planting it out , watching it over the years grow into a huge hoop pine , now it  functions as the tallest 'lookout tree', that some bird has usually perched up in to warn the others of approaching eagles and other predators  and  providing nests  for birds , watch the hatchling being fed and learning to fly .

 

Watching the fire burn .... how does that even happen ?!   Looking up to the starts at night  ... wow ! 

 

Separate your self from all this , observe it from afar in 'non-existence'   now imagine if you could be involved in all that and experience it ..... there is your miracle , everything is 'magical ' .

 

You want to   "  hit the core beliefs I have about reality so hard they shatter. "

 

Indeed !   It is a 'perspective' . 

 

Spoiler
 
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower 
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand 
And Eternity in an hour
....
- William  Blake

 

Edited by Nungali
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On 5/27/2024 at 8:48 AM, Daniel said:

@DreamBliss,

 

Thank you for your passionate inquiry.  I appreciate what you've written, and I think, I can't say for sure, but I think I understand what you're feeling.  If I understand, what you've written resonates deeply with how I feel in many ways.  Based on what you've written, again, if I understand properly, there is a great deal to discuss.  In my opinion, the items below are where the discussion should begin:

 

#1:

 

 

Noted.  You need this.  It is not a want.  Details are not and will not be provided here.  I won't ask.

 

 

This, my friend, if it is literally true, is a very dangerous position..  Anything includes a lot. 

 

Do you really mean it?  Anything?  Literally?

 

I am open to anything, yes. But I won't do literally anything, no. That desperate, literally do anything mindset is very dangerous in my opinion. It may be needed in small doses in certain cases, but what use would be the knowledge I seek at the harmful expense of another? If it would harm another person, I probably wouldn't do it.

 

Hope that answers your question.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2024 at 9:09 AM, liminal_luke said:

For most, reality-bending abilities, if they come, come after decades of dedicated practice.  But the good thing is that a person can start on a path and see real life-changing results way before entering the miracle zone.  Even if you´re not walking through walls in a year, you can absolutely be happier, more grounded, a better Bum in so many prosaic but meaningful ways.  No shame, by the way, for wanting to walk through walls.  I want that too!  There´s a lot of juicy low hanging fruit though -- I´d pick that first.

 

Well so far all the low-hanging fruit I have found (some of it very delicious BTW) has turned out to not be substantial enough to feed me, like eating a watermelon, or downright rotten!

I would be happy with low-hanging fruit if it did indeed, "provide life-changing results before entering the miracle zone", as you said. And did not come with a limited time offer or price tag. I don't need to walk through walls, or in my case it would be flying or teleportation. I assume we are locked into certain rules collectively in this reality.

 

But being able to sense energy as if it were a tangible thing and see things most are not aware of would be good enough for me. That would certainly short-circuit this unwanted inner tendency of mine to believe the physical world is all there which has left me unable to change my life in the big 3 ways: Fundamentally, Meaningfully and Substantially.

Edited by DreamBliss

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Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2024 at 3:13 PM, Nungali said:

Another way is to turn it all on its head .  How can one do that ?   By changing one's perception !

 

I see miracles everyday in the 'normal natural world' .  Because of our conditioning, we turn a blind eye to it and slot it into our consciousness as normal, everyday, natural, understood and rational experience .

 

But that is just a way of looking at things .

 

I get wonder and excitement from finding a seed , taking it home , nurturing it,  watching it sprout, helping it grow, planting it out , watching it over the years grow into a huge hoop pine , now it  functions as the tallest 'lookout tree', that some bird has usually perched up in to warn the others of approaching eagles and other predators  and  providing nests  for birds , watch the hatchling being fed and learning to fly .

 

Watching the fire burn .... how does that even happen ?!   Looking up to the starts at night  ... wow ! 

 

Separate your self from all this , observe it from afar in 'non-existence'   now imagine if you could be involved in all that and experience it ..... there is your miracle , everything is 'magical ' .

 

You want to   "  hit the core beliefs I have about reality so hard they shatter. "

 

Indeed !   It is a 'perspective' . 

 

  Reveal hidden contents
 
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower 
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand 
And Eternity in an hour
....
- William  Blake

 

 

I too consider these things and love them Nungali. I often look around the world in wonder, and then wonder why nobody else is looking around!

 

But the miracle of watching a seed sprout or an ant lug a huge nut to its nest doesn't in any way leave any sort of fundamental, meaningful or substantial impact on my reality.

 

The physical world is certainly wonderful - full of wonder - but that doesn't help me change the trajectory of my life. I wish it were enough though. Finding wonder in the world is something I can do effortlessly!

 

BTW, love the William Blake!

Edited by DreamBliss

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On 5/27/2024 at 11:23 AM, kakapo said:

 

 

 

It's healthy to be disillusioned with the spiritual community.


Everywhere as far as the eye can see is BS.


To weed out the BS, ask for evidence.


You need scientists and doctors in a controlled environment to document these abilities, and record their findings on video.


If the teachers aren't willing to provide that then most likely it's a hoax.

 

 

 

Some good advice here, thank you! But a little too much dependence on the religion of science (I know that phrase irks some of you, sorry.) Some things can not be measured in a lab - they have to be experienced directly. 

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Thank you, everyone, for your replies. Anyone familiar with the book I mentioned, or Eric Peppin?

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@DreamBliss,

a few thoughts

 

I find that what is available and deeply satisfying is gradual integration.  You use your own sensitivities and trying modalities of method/s to engage basic transformative dialectics:  conscious ~ unconscious, body ~ awareness, drop ~ Ocean, lofty ~ heavy.  The people that dig it and stay with it … *basically* enjoy (yikes, not that simple) have some kind of bond that that’s just part of their life and there is incremental progress over the long term.  That’s where the gratification is, the real game.  Hidden Journey.  The internal path.  All that.  *That’s* accessible, and it adds up over time.  Worth while.

 

And, yup, all kinds of exaggerations that spirituality will give you all the things that you want in your external life, fix all your character flaws, and give you super powers.  Bullshit, all bullshit.  The progress that you can make is frustratingly slow, and partial, and usually not in the proportions, areas that you might prefer.  Still, deeply worth while.

 

cheers,

Trunk

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DreamBliss said:

That would certainly short-circuit this unwanted inner tendency of mine to believe the physical world is all there which has left me unable to change my life in the big 3 ways: Fundamentally, Meaningfully and Substantially.

 

You're looking for a practice which produces fundemental, meaningful, substantial changes in an individual's life?  But, wisely, you would like hard evidence that the practice can (not will) produce these results prior to investing the time?

 

Edit to add:  But there is a specific roadblock or roadblocks which is/are interferring with this for you?  You're thinking, maybe, you need a sort of a "jolt" to skip over the roadblock or blocks?

 

Edited by Daniel

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DreamBliss said:

But the miracle of watching a seed sprout or an ant lug a huge nut to its nest doesn't in any way leave any sort of fundamental, meaningful or substantial impact on my reality.

 

The physical world is certainly wonderful - full of wonder - but that doesn't help me change the trajectory of my life. I wish it were enough though. Finding wonder in the world is something I can do effortlessly!

Impact upon reality?

There is an old saying

Before enlightenment, chop wood carry water

After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water

 

The world doesn't change. There is no fundamental impact, ... meaningful or otherwise.

What needs to be done daily, doesn't change.

The miracle is not the seed sprouting or the ant moving the nut. It is that you can perceive it at all.

Perception that one has free will to choose one's actions

 

Three monks go into silent meditation. Bodhidharma follows. He asked what they are doing there. The monk answers that they are trying to become enlightened. To become like Buddha. Bodhidharma starts to rub a roof tile. The monks ask him what he is doing. Bodhidharma answers trying to polish this roof tile into a mirror. One can not make something into something else that it is not. One can not have any sort of fundamental , meaningful or substantial impact on reality thru watching a seed sprout or an ant lug a huge nut. It is not wonder of the worlds. It is the perception of the worlds.

 

Sorry, I have a tendency to rattle on like a snake in the desert. My hiss is worse than my bite.

Edited by Tommy

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DreamBliss said:

Anyone familiar with the book I mentioned, or Eric Peppin?

yes many are, all over the web. please understand that all miracle-makers and miracle-teachers are disgusting frauds. This one takes the cake though.

https://www.wweek.com/portland/article-10512-eric-the-enlightened.html

 

Quote

Eric Pepin is a digusting, manipulative pig. ESP and meditation have been around for centuries. Many people claim there are multiple dimensions and that astral projection exists. So what if he can do any of these things. His teachings don't just enlighten people, he believes he can take the place of psychologists for people who need SERIOUS therapy. I lost one of my best friends to this cult. She sat ALONE "meditating", recalling past childhood abuse, and crying hysterically for weekds on end. He claimed this was necessary for her healing. She wasn't actually diagnosed with bipolar disorder until years into her involvement with this cult. She is on medication and I haven't heard from her. I can only hope she has left this behind. What sickens me isn't just the people who are involved with this, but the ones who attempt to influence others. I had to be very firm in telling my friend to stop trying to teach my children Eric Pepins beliefs. She went on to attempt to suck her cousin and neice into it. Eric Pepin preys on people who are lonely or going through emotional turmoil.

https://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboroargus/2008/03/socalled_psychic_files_suit_ag.html

https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?5,33575,92547

On 5/24/2024 at 7:59 PM, DreamBliss said:

I'm very tired, on every level. I am weary of my life and the seemingly concrete box of an experience of reality I am locked into. I want to know if the things in this book I am reading are true. I don't know how to ask that in Eric Peppin's Discord. Any advice?

you need to calm down otherwise you will hurt yourself.

Edited by Taoist Texts

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14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

You're looking for a practice which produces fundemental, meaningful, substantial changes in an individual's life?  But, wisely, you would like hard evidence that the practice can (not will) produce these results prior to investing the time?

 

Edit to add:  But there is a specific roadblock or roadblocks which is/are interferring with this for you?  You're thinking, maybe, you need a sort of a "jolt" to skip over the roadblock or blocks?

 

 

More like a jolt to break through the blocks. Mainly because I spent so long working on myself I started to become self-absorbed, and nothing (and I mean nothing) I have ever done, outside of renouncing my former Christian faith, created any fundamental, meaningful and substantial change.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes many are, all over the web. please understand that all miracle-makers and miracle-teachers are disgusting frauds. This one takes the cake though.

https://www.wweek.com/portland/article-10512-eric-the-enlightened.html

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboroargus/2008/03/socalled_psychic_files_suit_ag.html

https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?5,33575,92547

 

Thank you for the information. I will verify it with what I already know. Unfortunately there are just as many people out there claiming things that never happened to them, claiming someone (usually someone famous or popular) hurt them in some way, as there are lying spiritual teachers! But these folk are at best lying, or rumor mongering, or at worse on a smear campaign.

 

I see over and over again countless attacks on spirituality and spiritual practices, as well as spiritual teachers. I live not far from where Osho was kicked out. I have been told Carlos Casteneda was a liar and a murderer. I have been told the lady channeling Ramtha in running a cult. I have been told Teal Swan is running a cult. Heck the folks claiming these things would defame the Buddha or Jesus Christ if they could get away with it!

 

I don't like to waste my time and energy on liars and naysayers who serve only one purpose, to preserve the status quo. To keep things locked into physical reality so the great capitalist machine can keep churning. If we could effortlessly experience things "outside physical reality" and the information on how to do it was readily available, society would likely cease to function as it currently does. The whole damn system works because everyone thinks that all there is is getting up, going to work, rinse and repeat.

 

I know there is more to reality than what my senses tell me. I know there must be authentic teachers out there who can do things most can't. But wading through all this BS is exhausting...

Edited by DreamBliss

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7 minutes ago, DreamBliss said:

 

Thank you for the information. I will verify it with what I already know. Unfortunately there are just as many people out there claiming things that never happened to them, claiming someone (usually someone famous or popular) hurt them in some way, as there are lying spiritual teachers! But these folk are at best lying, or rumor mongering, or at worse on a smear campaign.

 

I see over and over again countless attacks on spirituality and spiritual practices, as well as spiritual teachers. I live not far from where Osho was kicked out. I have been told Carlos Casteneda was a liar and a murderer. I have been told the lady channeling Ramtha in running a cult. I have been told Teal Swan is running a cult. Heck the folks claiming these things would defame the Buddha or Jesus Christ if they could get away with it!

 

I don't like to waste my time and energy on liars and naysayers who serve only one purpose, to preserve the status quo. To keep things locked into physical reality so the great capitalist machine can keep churning. If we could effortlessly experience things "outside physical reality" and the information on how to do it was readily available, society would likely cease to function as it currently does. The whole damn system works because everyone thinks that all there is is getting up, going to work, rinse and repeat.

 

I know there is more to reality than what my senses tell me. I know there must be authentic teachers out there who can do things most can't. But wading through all this BS is exhausting...

 

 

The best thing you can do is go meet these masters in person and decide for yourself, not listen to what strangers on the internet tell you

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6 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

 

 

The best thing you can do is go meet these masters in person and decide for yourself, not listen to what strangers on the internet tell you

 

Would that I had the resources to do so! I agree completely.

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Posted (edited)

So I checked the links about Eric Peppin that were provided. Just the usual defamation BS. The formula is always the same: spiritual teacher becomes successful == spiritual teacher is accused of abuse or rape. And as always, the word cult is thrown around with most of the folks tossing it having not the foggiest clue what a cult actually is.

 

Main point is nothing disproved any of what Eric Peppin claimed to do or proved any wrongdoing on his part. So not a worthy resource, though I do appreciate desire and willingness to help. Thank you.

 

You know I believe and claim to be intuitive and sensitive. Every once and a while (though not for some time now) I see strange things. Nothing huge or life shattering. Just weird, and the voice in my head quickly minimizes it. Like the time I was at the theater and saw a beautiful, happy, young couple walking towards me. They were maybe 10 feet away. Then as they passed me I saw they were actually an older, but still very much in love couple. I figure I either caught a glimpse of their spirit or soul. Or maybe how they see each other. But ask me to do that again, and I can't! So just because someone claims psychic powers yet can't read your mind on command doesn't mean they aren't psychic.

 

I do see one avenue of investigation and that is to see if there are any military records for Eric Peppin. It is claimed in the book he helped the military find subs as a kid. Maybe a FOIA request would shake something loose. Not sure I can be bothered though.

 

That first link was also very harsh towards Tony Robbins, Michael Bernard Beckwith and Oprah. Oprah for cryin' out loud! Probably the closest thing to Mother Teresa outside the Catholic faith. What's next... Go after Thich Nhat Hanh or Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev? UGH!

Edited by DreamBliss

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