In praise of ideas

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

i refer to this sense 'Spherical Awareness'.  It implies a sense of awareness of surroundings in a sphere that encompasses and extends well beyond the body in all directions.

i first encountered it consciously while trying to climb down a cliff face i had climbed up without ropes or gear and it was vertical.  There was no option for me to look where my feet needed to plant below me in order to gain stability to progress downward without falling.

 

Later in life i was introduced to it in 3rd Dan trials/tests in martial arts... being able to sense a person's intentions toward you and behind you when they occupy a spot beyond sightlines.

 

had something like that when i got into crash and my body instantly knew what to do to lesson the injury.

[Nungali]

On 6/9/2024 at 9:28 AM, Cobie said:

Surely that was Keanu Reeves. 
 

 

 

Oh no ... certainly not !   He was not allowed to smoke !   ( Nor eat proper food  , nor  this, nor that .... ) 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Speaking of tennis.  Once upon a time I went to a birthday party accompanied by someone who was good at tennis.  At some point the hostess brought in the cake but got momentarily distracted by the conversation at the table, joined in and forgot, just for a second, that she was holding a very delicate cake.  It was positioned on a flat plate and the distraction led to the plate in her hands tilting sideways and the cake abruptly slid down off it. 

 

It never hit the floor though.  Before anyone -- including the hostess -- had a chance to realize what was happening, the tennis guy, who was sitting with his back to the hostess and was completely unaware on any "ordinary"* level that the cake was in the process of falling behind the back of his chair, swerved around and extended an open palm an inch above the floor.  The cake landed in his palm, completely intact. 

 

He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and why, had to nearly dislocate his shoulder to suddenly assume the only position that could save the cake, and all of it took far less time than it would take the brain to get the input from the eyes (to say nothing of there being no eyes on the back of the guy's head), assess the situation and then issue the appropriate commands to the muscles.  The tennis guy didn't have the foggiest how he managed to do it but attributed it to tennis.   

 

*I attribute it to some antics of the "nonordinary reality."   

 

Speaking of great sporting feats being translated into saving things .

 

Warwick Kappa  renown for being able to catch a 'high mark '  by running up the back of an opponent  ( then according to the rules of 'Aussie Rules' if you then run with the ball , more than three steps , you must bounce it in front of you  and catch it as you run , or kick it between the goal posts - ruby, basketball , soccer  :   ) 

 

 

There was a fire in an apartment block and a woman came to a third floor balcony  with a baby  wrapped up in a blanket . Everyone was horrified to see the poor woman trapped  and she yelled out , as the flames approached her , " Save my baby ! " and thre it off the balcony to the  shocked people below .  Warwick Cappa was passing by  and instinctively ran towards the crowd , ran up a man's back, leaped  into the air and caught the baby in both hands , automatically, without thinking .

 

The crowd let out a cheer ,  Cappa turned, ran three steps and  then kicked the baby between two telegraph poles .

 

Spoiler

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

i refer to this sense 'Spherical Awareness'.  It implies a sense of awareness of surroundings in a sphere that encompasses and extends well beyond the body in all directions.

i first encountered it consciously while trying to climb down a cliff face i had climbed up without ropes or gear and it was vertical.  There was no option for me to look where my feet needed to plant below me in order to gain stability to progress downward without falling.

 

Later in life i was introduced to it in 3rd Dan trials/tests in martial arts... being able to sense a person's intentions toward you and behind you when they occupy a spot beyond sightlines.

 

Yeah , I developed that in Aikido during  3 (of them ) on one (me ) .

 

And ... you better have this sense developed in you plan on riding a motorcycle !  Its saved me a few times !

[forestofclarity]

On 6/8/2024 at 5:09 PM, Apech said:

Something else is happening.

 

Well, the newer theories include "predictive processing" in which the brain/mind speculates on a lot of the input:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 10 by forestofemptiness

[Nintendao]

Athletes and artists, when presented with accolades, will often unabashedly attribute a share of the glory to God. Through exemplary dedication to honing one’s own performance, there may also evolve a real sense of becoming a sort of conduit for something greater.

 

Inventors and researchers, upon making a major breakthrough, will occasionally relate an intriguing experience. For example Gordon Gould, who came up with the idea for the laser, described it as a gift that could have been given to anyone; he just happened to have been picked. It’s a different feeling than an “aha moment,” where after much accumulation and scrutinization, things finally start falling into place. It’s more akin to stumbling upon an already perfectly formed treasure, perhaps even in a dreamlike vision. Afterwards a great deal of work may be needed to unpack and codify the details, so it may be shared and developed.

 

Spoiler

 

LIGHTNING FORMATION AND EUREKA! EVENTS

 

The way in which a bolt of actual lightning forms is a powerful analogy of the Eureka! event. Electrical energy generated through cloud activity collects as an attractive aggregate in a particular cloud formation that attracts more and more energy from the surrounding clouds until a saturation point of electrical potential is reached. The laden sky charge then literally seeks out a resonant frequency from a similar saturation point on the ground, which is formed when some small electrical charge in a limited area attracts similar charges scattered throughout the surrounding terrain so that all gather until, in their meeting, they reach maximum saturation point.

 

This ground charge is always much smaller and weaker than the huge energy generating over the expanse of sky and cloud above, but nevertheless a sky charge with common resonance seeks it out. When the sky charge finds the closest connecting point, the ground charge gathers its full force to make a gesture of attraction toward the cloud charge, using any handy physical object that can conduct it upward - tree, flag pole, elevated structure, or upright human body. This then triggers the far greater sky charge into direct, responsive action. It follows the weaker signal down in a happy rumble on the ground, and in this way, the ground charge has sowed a wind that reaps a whirlwind, so to speak.

 

Formative fields of potential function roughly similarly, regardless of the nature of resonant energies involved (electromagnetic, chemical, psychological, or spiritual). In Gould's case, when that field of potential hit some kind of saturation point it manifested a new combination of the ingredients within it or perhaps even beyond it, by random chance or highly specific stochastic action. Such combination creation may well be deliberate, purposeful intelligent action over and above any field effect (or our notions of intelligence), though random chance and selectivity are likely part of the process.

 

The significant factor in Gould's case is that this field of optical physics generated the revelation of a phenomenon not in actual existence anywhere in the universe. Yet that manifestation could have taken place only through or in a properly prepared target: a mind that could attract, receive, and translate that bolt out of the blue. Whether by chance or design, through resonance between Gould's mind and that highly specialized field of mind, creation of something that had never before existed took place, bringing something new under the sun. Creative action of this sort may be a general characteristic of field effect. "Saturated" fields seeking resonant reception may be far more prevalent than the comparatively few cases brought to our awareness.

 

For instance, I read a report years ago that told of two mathematicians on either side of our globe who came up with the same new theorem at the same time. Fields are nonlocal, but they may localize in some brain or brains at each manifestation. Where those brains are located doesn't enter the equation. Further, such action clearly displays an intelligence at work. To deny that intelligence plays a part in the Eureka! process giving rise to, for instance, mathematical breakthroughs is to deny that mathematics involves intelligence.

 

The analogy of the lightning bolt carries additional weight if we can recognize that all field manifestation is of the same natural order. Biologist Gregory Bateson claimed that mind and nature are a unity, and whether a field that forms from our action is of mind matters such as mathematics or music, or from nature matters such as electromagnetic energy or lightning bolts, both categories encompass natural phenomena and function in the same way.

 

The Death of Religion and the Rebirth of Spirit: A Return to the Intelligence of the Heart: Pearce, Joseph Chilton

pp 44-46

 

Edited June 10 by Nintendao

[Nungali]

I am sure drummers ( and other musicians  artists and creators ) realize this  ;    give a share of glory to 'God'   .

 

Said to me after a good session :  " Wow, that was great ! I never knew you could drum like that ! "

 

Me :   "   Neither did I !  "

[Taomeow]

The Godfather, the novel by Mario Puzo, was written before I knew any English, and long before it was translated.  I never heard of it until much later after the fact, the Iron Curtain was fully functional at the time and didn't let through anything deemed inappropriate.  And yet when I was 14, I started writing a novel (left unfinished) with the following plot:

 

a mafioso family in the US, with a great criminal don at its head and two of his sons in the key positions;

the third son chooses to have nothing to do with mafia businesses, intends to lead a law-abiding life, dates a "good" girl;

events start unfolding that pull him into the eye of the mafia wars storm against his will, kicking and screaming first, then committed;

he has to leave the country and go into hiding abroad (in my version, not to Sicily though but to Mexico);

and so on.  When a few years later the first Soviet translation of the novel (which happened to be Ukrainian) appeared, I was racking my brain trying to figure out how Mario Puzo could possibly steal my draft and copy my plot.  

To this day the Corleone family is the Rinaldi family to me (from my version), Don Vito is Don Silvio, and so on.     

Edited June 10 by Taomeow

[liminal_luke]

9 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

The Godfather, the novel by Mario Puzo, was written before I knew any English, and long before it was translated.  I never heard of it until much later after the fact, the Iron Curtain was fully functional at the time and didn't let through anything deemed inappropriate.  And yet when I was 14, I started writing a novel (left unfinished) with the following plot:

 

a mafioso family in the US, with a great criminal don at its head and two of his sons in the key positions;

the third son chooses to have nothing to do with mafia businesses, intends to lead a law-abiding life, dates a "good" girl;

events start unfolding that pull him into the eye of the mafia wars storm against his will, kicking and screaming first, then committed;

he has to leave the country and go into hiding abroad (in my version, not to Sicily though but to Mexico);

and so on.  When a few years later the first Soviet translation of the novel (which happened to be Ukrainian) appeared, I was wracking my brain trying to figure out how Mario Puzo could possibly steal my draft and copy my plot.  

To this day the Corleone family is the Rinaldi family to me (from my version), Don Vito is Don Silvio, and so on.     

 

I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert who said that the ideas for books exist out there in the ether and can be picked up by multiple people.  I tried to find the quote in her book Big Magic and the closest I got was...

 

“ideas are alive, that ideas do seek the most available human collaborator, that ideas do have a conscious will, that ideas do move from soul to soul, that ideas will always try to seek the swiftest and most efficient conduit to the earth (just as lightning does).”

-- Elizabeth Gilbert

 

-

[Taomeow]

12 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert who said that the ideas for books exist out there in the ether and can be picked up by multiple people.  I tried to find the quote in her book Big Magic and the closest I got was...

 

“ideas are alive, that ideas do seek the most available human collaborator, that ideas do have a conscious will, that ideas do move from soul to soul, that ideas will always try to seek the swiftest and most efficient conduit to the earth (just as lightning does).”

-- Elizabeth Gilbert

 

-

 

Ah, that explains it -- at the time Mario Puzo was a much more efficient conduit than me, hands down...  But shouldn't ideas be taken out of circulation once they've found their conduit and materialized?  He already wrote the novel by the time the idea struck me (even though I had no knowledge of it).  It's as though the same lightning struck the earth in a different place at a different time.  A doppelganger idea?..  Or maybe some of those lightnings are not only of this earth?  Some transcend space and time and maybe get through from some parallel universes?  And the one that came to me was not from this one, but from the one where Mario Puzo didn't exist?  ???  

Edited June 10 by Taomeow

[liminal_luke]

In a related vein, isn´t it true that scientific discoveries tend to emerge more or less simultaneously among researchers who don´t know of each other´s work?  (Can´t think of an example offhand but I read this somewhere and it seems plausible to me.)  

Edited June 10 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

35 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

The Godfather, the novel by Mario Puzo, was written before I knew any English, and long before it was translated.  I never heard of it until much later after the fact, the Iron Curtain was fully functional at the time and didn't let through anything deemed inappropriate.  And yet when I was 14, I started writing a novel (left unfinished) with the following plot:

 

a mafioso family in the US, with a great criminal don at its head and two of his sons in the key positions;

the third son chooses to have nothing to do with mafia businesses, intends to lead a law-abiding life, dates a "good" girl;

events start unfolding that pull him into the eye of the mafia wars storm against his will, kicking and screaming first, then committed;

he has to leave the country and go into hiding abroad (in my version, not to Sicily though but to Mexico);

and so on.  When a few years later the first Soviet translation of the novel (which happened to be Ukrainian) appeared, I was racking my brain trying to figure out how Mario Puzo could possibly steal my draft and copy my plot.  

To this day the Corleone family is the Rinaldi family to me (from my version), Don Vito is Don Silvio, and so on.     

Did it have the line ‘alla my life I gave you nothing and still you ask for more’ ?

 

 

[liminal_luke]

12 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Ah, that explains it -- at the time Mario Puzo was a much more efficient conduit than me, hands down...  But shouldn't ideas be taken out of circulation once they've found their conduit and materialized?  He already wrote the novel by the time the idea struck me (even though I had no knowledge of it).  It's as though the same lightning struck the earth in a different place at a different time.  A doppelganger?..  Or maybe some of those lightnings are not only of this earth?  Some transcend space and time and maybe get through from some parallel universes?  And the one that came to me was not from this one, but from the one where Mario Puzo didn't exist?  ???  

 

Who can say what an Idea thinks?  Sure, Mario Puzo was an adult, likely had better connections to the publishing biz, blah, blah, blah.  By human standards, The Godfather was a smashing success.  Everybody has read the book, watched the movie, or at least heard about it.  But maybe the Idea wasn´t satisfied.  Maybe the Idea didn´t think Mario got it quite right.  Maybe the idea thought  "let´s give it to this quick Russian (Ukrainian?) girl, see what she can do with it."

Edited June 10 by liminal_luke

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

Did it have the line ‘alla my life I gave you nothing and still you ask for more’ ?

 

 

 

I doubt it, it's a fun line but neither me nor even google know where it's from.  Where is it from?  

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

In a related vein, isn´t it true that scientific discoveries tend to emerge more or less simultaneously among researchers who don´t know of each other´s work?  (Can´t think of an example offhand but I read this somewhere and it seems plausible to me.)  

 

I've reaId about it too, but can't think of examples either.  However, I can offer a taoist explanation.  From the get-go, taoism made inroads into Time as a subject of scrutiny, study, contemplation, and ultimately comprehension.  So, in this system, every period of Time has its own distinct characteristics, and these are conductive to certain specific kinds of events that have a higher chance of occurring when this type of Time arrives.  Taoist Time is a kind of climate --  when spring (e.g.) comes, everything is affected all at once and responds in a way characteristic of spring rather than, say, autumn or winter.  Ideas are somewhere there too among things stimulated, and the emergence of certain types of ideas when particular kinds of Time arrive is probabilistically higher.  

[Cobie]

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

… scientific discoveries tend to emerge more or less simultaneously among researchers who don´t know of each other´s work?  (Can´t think of an example …

it brings to my mind ‘evolution theory’ by Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace 

 

 

Edited June 11 by Cobie

[Nungali]

On 11/06/2024 at 11:23 AM, Taomeow said:

 

I doubt it, it's a fun line but neither me nor even google know where it's from.  Where is it from?  

 

 

[Apech]

On 11/06/2024 at 2:23 AM, Taomeow said:

 

I doubt it, it's a fun line but neither me nor even google know where it's from.  Where is it from?  

https://artblart.com/tag/gilbert-george-all-my-life-i-give-you-nothing-and-still-you-ask-for-more/

 

[S:C]

8 hours ago, Apech said:

https://artblart.com/tag/gilbert-george-all-my-life-i-give-you-nothing-and-still-you-ask-for-more/

 

You think the double meaning was intended?

Edited June 13 by S:C

[Apech]

2 hours ago, S:C said:

You think the double meaning was intended?

 

Yep

[Apech]

Just to get back on topic.  I think we have established through the variety of examples that perception is not the dull thing that is usually presented.  But then whay exactly - and I mean exactly, precisely is an idea?

 

Can anyone give me a definition?

[Taomeow]

58 minutes ago, Apech said:

Just to get back on topic.  I think we have established through the variety of examples that perception is not the dull thing that is usually presented.  But then whay exactly - and I mean exactly, precisely is an idea?

 

Can anyone give me a definition?

 

A closed gestalt.  

[Apech]

20 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

A closed gestalt.  

could you expand this slightly enigmatic answer please

[Taomeow]

Briefly.  According to gestalt theory, the brain, presented with complex input of multiple elements, incomplete pictures, fragments, parts, etc., will attempt to simplify it by subconsciously organizing the parts into a structured system that creates a whole.  The brain is always busy seeking structure and patterns -- that's how we learn to navigate any complex environment.  An open gestalt is one where this hasn't been accomplished, and it's a kind of constant irritant to the mind, whether conscious or unconscious.  The idea of how to complete the pattern is germinating, but there's no guarantee it will emerge.  If the brain, presented with the right amount of information, manages to establish the right connections ("right" for the task of organizing the elements into a coherent structure, not in the sense "right" vs. "wrong"), it connects the parts that are present, fills in the missing parts, cuts off the unnecessary elements, and creates a unified whole.  This reduces complexity, carves out a finite thing of meaning from an infinite pool of noise, and closes the gestalt.   

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

Just to get back on topic.  I think we have established through the variety of examples that perception is not the dull thing that is usually presented.  But then whay exactly - and I mean exactly, precisely is an idea?

 

Can anyone give me a definition?

 

A drop of condensed unconscious meditation .