On esotericism: Why the secracy?

[NaturaNaturans]

And why tell people you have secret knowledge? Doesnt that defeat the purpose?

 

Also, I often hear it talked about as western, is that the case? And when did Egypt become western?

Edited June 25 by NaturaNaturans

[Daniel]

29 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

And why tell people you have secret knowledge? Doesnt that defeat the purpose?

 

It depends on the secret.

 

Some secrets are dangerous.

 

Some are more like riddles.  If they are explained the audience loses.  The process, in the heart and mind, which is solving the riddle is what produces the benefit.

 

Some are like magic tricks.  A magician never reveals their secrets out of respect for other magicians.

[stirling]

52 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

And why tell people you have secret knowledge? Doesnt that defeat the purpose?

 

Also, I often hear it talked about as western, is that the case? And when did Egypt become western?

 

The right advice in the ear of a person ready to listen to it is helpful. The same advice in ear of someone who is fearful, deluded or mentally unbalanced is fuel for much greater fear, delusion, and mental unbalance. The discernment of the teacher, in Buddhism, is called "skillful means", or "upaya". 

 

From the Lotus Sutra:

 

Quote

 

Ever since I became a buddha, I have used a variety of causal explanations and a variety of parables to teach and preach, and countless skillful means to lead living beings

 

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After attaining buddhahood I expounded the teaching extensively with various explanations and illustrations, and with skillful means (upāya) led sentient beings to rid themselves of their attachments

 

 

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With wisdom as bright as the sun and the moon, and timely use of skillful means, they make the enterprise of the Great Vehicle prosper and grow, and lead many to attain supreme awakening quickly

 

-Buddha, All from the Lotus Sutra

 

 The most "secret" teachings in Buddhism (and many other traditions) are often VERY simple, but obscured because such direct statements about the true nature of reality can make SOME people angry, frightened, defensive, or even lead to madness, and therefore reserved, at the discretion of the teacher, for those most ready to capitalize on them. They are also often only taught by enlightened teachers because a teacher without complete understanding can misrepresent them, or be unable to help someone caught in a delusion about their true meaning.

[kakapo]

1 hour ago, NaturaNaturans said:

And why tell people you have secret knowledge? Doesnt that defeat the purpose?

 

Also, I often hear it talked about as western, is that the case? And when did Egypt become western?

 

I have seen instructions of the system I study, edited.

 

People removed the most important parts.

 

People removed the most important precautions you must take.

 

People added new things which are not compatible. 

 

People market this as the real deal, and post it online everywhere.

 

People then get hurt.

 

People blame the system I study as the cause of their ailments.

 

The problem becomes people who don't understand and want to blend together everything they have learned into something new, and then re transmit the knowledge to others without understanding what they are teaching. 

 

It is necessary to screen people to make sure you don't end up sharing information with someone who is like that.

 

[Sherman Krebbs]

19 hours ago, stirling said:

The right advice in the ear of a person ready to listen to it is helpful. The same advice in ear of someone who is fearful, deluded or mentally unbalanced is fuel for much greater fear, delusion, and mental unbalance. The discernment of the teacher, in Buddhism, is called "skillful means", or "upaya". 

 

I think in some traditions (mahamudra in particular), it is also important to teach in stages and to bring the pupil to each successive stage before attempting to teach a higher stage. Its not secrecy for secrecy's sake, but a desire for disciples to be able to develop particular/peculiar insights at each stage, in order to gain all qualities of realization.  In other words, it is necessary for teaching Dharma in a particular order.  There seems to be less secrecy in leap-over practices, such as Nyingma, where the ordering is less important, although I cant say I am very qualified to opine on either, as you dont know secret stuff that you dont know.  

 

There is also this anecdote:  There once was a fellow who, although he did not have the instructions, decided to practice a secret mantra of meditation in order to be able to fly. He began to repeat the mantra in accordance with directions found in a text.  After he finished, he jumped out the window of his fifth story apartment. 

[snowymountains]

 

Quote

Scarcity rhetoric in a job advertisement for restaurant server positions has been investigated. Subjects were presented with two help-wanted ads, one of which suggested numerous job vacancies, while the other suggested that very few were available. The study found that subjects who were presented with the advertisement that suggested limited positions available viewed the company as being a better one to work for than the one that implied many job positions were available. Subjects also felt that the advertisement that suggested limited vacancies translated to higher wages. In short, subjects placed a positive, higher value on the company that suggested that there were scarce job vacancies available.

 

😁 from Scarcity (social psychology) - Wikipedia , which has a lot of other very relevant info.

[Nungali]

On 6/26/2024 at 7:35 AM, NaturaNaturans said:

And why tell people you have secret knowledge? Doesnt that defeat the purpose?

 

Also, I often hear it talked about as western, is that the case? And when did Egypt become western?

 

Egypt itself did not become western . Hermetics  did , which has a component of  Egyptian knowledge .  But even that is tricky;

It started to form after the abandonment of Alexandria as a knowledge center , it moved to Haran in Syria . By then it was a mix of Egyptian, Greek, Magi, Jewish and anything considered 'knowledgeable' back then .  Then  it got picked up by the Islamic civilization , that got a further influence from Greek philosophy while coming into the 'west ' .  There it sorta went 'underground' creating the 'esoteric' (hidden or occluded  - 'occult'  ) style of knowledge .

 

In the east ,  similar knowledge  was exoteric  - 'out there ' ... on the street , so to speak .  part of the reason of it being forced underground in the west was it's  preoccupation with  the 'Christian view ' and regulation of society and the development of modern science .

 

Thats part of the reason for secrecy , some old societies  explored early science  and taught 'heretical' ideas , first against the church and later against the state . Other reasons  are as stated above by other posters .  There are many other  reasons .

 

But why say you have secrets  in the first place ?       Well, you know what people are like  ....

 

 

 

 

[Cadcam]

There is currently no secret idea that is not revealed, but some revelations require the seeker to unpack their mind to discover the truth that they currently do not see.

[Talking Monkey]

Why the secrecy? In my opinion, fraud and danger. First of all, implied secrets make great masks for fraud and/or incompetence. As for danger, those who get results see some of the risks and, if virtuous, don't want to be responsible for harm to, or through, others by sharing/teaching too much too soon - and with the wrong people. Evil and mental illness are not fantasies and Esoterics magnify character flaws - and virtues.

[Cobie]

Why the secrecy? Otherwise you get laughed at.