What is laughter?

[Daniel]

Friends,

 

What is laughter?

[Daniel]

 

 

 

[Salvijus]

Here's my philosophy 

 

There are six healing sounds. Sadness has a sound when it is being released. 

 

Anger has a sound when it is being released. 

 

Grief, fear, all the rest have a specific sound when it is being released. 

 

Laughter is the sound you release when you are releasing joy and love. 

 

It's the supreme healing sound. It heals you of everything. 

 

Laughter is joy in motion. 

 

 

Edited June 27 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Laughter is freedom and life. 

 

The opposite of laughter is seriousness. 

 

Seriousness is death. 

 

Those who cannot laugh are dead inside. 

 

"the further you go into Truth the more you have to just laugh." 

 

Edited June 29 by Salvijus

[snowymountains]

On 26/06/2024 at 6:00 AM, Daniel said:

Friends,

 

What is laughter?

 

If it's a question on what is it for us a species, as to how come we laugh, read affective neuroscientists.

 

The important question though for you is what is laughter to you, and nobody else can answer that, but you 🙂

 

 

[Daniel]

It's a question about what is it that triggers the laughter.  It;s autonomous, right?  Like blinking?  What is happening in the mind when that is happening?

 

6 hours ago, snowymountains said:

The important question though for you is what is laughter to you, and nobody else can answer that, but you 🙂

 

Good.  I think this is helpful.

 

So, let's say that I am walking down the street and I see something funny, a bumper sticker.  I laugh.  Then I see another bumper sticker and I don't laugh.  What is the difference in my mind, body, soul, spirit, psyche, what ever words you choose to use to describe it.

 

Please don't say:  "the second one wasn't funny"  I'm asking what is it that makes something funny to the point of producing laughter?  There are other events besides "funny-events" which produce laughter, but, maybe it makes sense to focus just on comedy?  What is it that produces the laughter response which is, like I mentioned above autonomous?

 

For me, since you recommended self reflection, thank you:

 

I am comparing 2 hypothetical events in my mind.  The first event:  I see a bumper sticker and laugh automatically.  "Your dog is a ...??? HAHAHAHA!"  Then, later, I see the same sort of car, with the same bumper sticker, but this time, I don't laugh.  In my mind, "That's funny.  But there is no laughter."  The difference is:  I'm not surprised!

 

I think "surprise" is required, absolutely required in order to laugh autonomously.  What do you think?  Can I apply this nearly universally to all forms of laughter?  To what extent is this true? 

 

Surprise produces laughter?  

Lacking surprise suppresses laughter?

[Daniel]

On 6/29/2024 at 12:22 AM, Salvijus said:

Seriousness is death. 

 

You're fired.

 

( I'm kidding )

 

You're right! I feel alive!  This is fantastic!

 

( I'm still kidding, but I have ventured into jackass territory. )

 

On 6/29/2024 at 12:22 AM, Salvijus said:

Those who cannot laugh are dead inside. 

 

I'm sad now.  My countenance has fallen.  

 

~Calls wife on the phone~

 

"honey, I'm dying.  ... ...  Honey? ... Who are you talking to right now?  I hear a man's voice.  Why is he cheering?"

 

( I'm kidding and getting creative.)

 

On 6/27/2024 at 9:10 AM, Salvijus said:

Laughter is the sound you release when you are releasing joy and love. 

 

Ok.   Good.  This is getting serious.  Not me though.  I'm not serious.  Seriousness is death.  Seriousness is death, Seriousness is death.  ~stands-up~ ... ~stretching~ ... ~trunk twists~  Gotta stay loose.  Not serious, not serious.  My wife has man in deck ready to replace me.  Don't want that.  Don't want... 

 

OK!

 

I'm ready.  

 

Brother Salvijus!  Greetings!  I apologize in advance for asking these questions.  I'm about to do my thing.  My critical analysis thing.  But, I'm not doing before I tell you.  I love you, man.  You're a good dude.  You helped me.  I'm in your debt.  Yes we argued, but you helped me.  And I like you.

 

Here's the thing:  My mind right now is thinking about counter examples.  There's waves and waves of counter-examples crashing on the "shores" of my mind.  I release joy and love at a magnitude which I don;t think you appreciate and rarely am I laughing.  Rarely.

 

However, I, I cannot lie.  I'm a giggler.  I chuckle regularly.  And you're 100% right, it is an expression of love and joy.  But I know for certain I express love and joy in other ways too.  So, I'm asking the question:

 

What is the difference between the events where I am laughing during expressions of love and joy, and the other expressions of love and joy which do not produce the laughter?  Do you understand the question?

 

SnowyMountains proposed a self-reflection.  When I did that, it seems like surprise is the key component which is producing laughter.  Without it?  No laughter.  What do you think about this idea?  

 

Joy/Love >>> Surprise >>> laughter ???

 

 

For you own safety, please do not answer too seriously.  It's a serious question I'm asking, but its not worth losing your life MAN.  Get silly!  Here's some frivolity.  Click the link in case of emergency.

 

Dogs, Cute Ones, Doing tricks

 

( I'm kidding and being playful and letting you know I care )

 

 

[Daniel]

Friends, we have a problem:

 

Gallows Humor is not produced from Joy/Love.

 

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

What is the difference between the events where I am laughing during expressions of love and joy, and the other expressions of love and joy which do not produce the laughter? 

 

What's the difference between silent fear and being so afraid that you have to scream? I think it's the same with laughter. 

 

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

There's waves and waves of counter-examples crashing on the "shores" of my mind. 

 

I could hear all the counter arguments in my head myself the moment I wrote "seriousness is death". I thought for sure this is going to cause me trouble now 

 

That statement is true from a certain perspective. I would appreciate if you could try and see that one perceptive where that statement is true, instead of searching for every perspective where it is not true. It would make my life much easier  

 

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Friends, we have a problem:

 

Gallows Humor is not produced from Joy/Love.

 

 

When there is pain, seriousness creeps in and begins to suffocate the heart. The ability not to take painful events seriously enables one's heart to breathe again. Seeing all things with a non serious eye liberates you from everything. That's what unconditional love means. That's what enlightenment means. 

 

But there is a weird phenomena where people are using laughter as a mocking mechanism. To find joy in other people's suffering, or joy to demean them. This kind of laughter is toxic. It's not coming from love. It's coming from an insane mind, a mind that associates protection of ego as success and freedom. 

 

That last paragraph would take an entire book to explain fully. 

 

Edited July 5 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

Joy/Love >>> Surprise >>> laughter ???

I would say

 

Surprise(or amusement) >>> expansion of the heart >>> laughter. 

 

Now all it's left is to answer why surprise/amusement (seeing something new) causes an expansion of the heart (joy) and it becomes a complete answer. 

Edited July 5 by Salvijus

[snowymountains]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

It's a question about what is it that triggers the laughter.  It;s autonomous, right?  Like blinking?  What is happening in the mind when that is happening?

 

 

Good.  I think this is helpful.

 

So, let's say that I am walking down the street and I see something funny, a bumper sticker.  I laugh.  Then I see another bumper sticker and I don't laugh.  What is the difference in my mind, body, soul, spirit, psyche, what ever words you choose to use to describe it.

 

Please don't say:  "the second one wasn't funny"  I'm asking what is it that makes something funny to the point of producing laughter?  There are other events besides "funny-events" which produce laughter, but, maybe it makes sense to focus just on comedy?  What is it that produces the laughter response which is, like I mentioned above autonomous?

 

For me, since you recommended self reflection, thank you:

 

I am comparing 2 hypothetical events in my mind.  The first event:  I see a bumper sticker and laugh automatically.  "Your dog is a ...??? HAHAHAHA!"  Then, later, I see the same sort of car, with the same bumper sticker, but this time, I don't laugh.  In my mind, "That's funny.  But there is no laughter."  The difference is:  I'm not surprised!

 

I think "surprise" is required, absolutely required in order to laugh autonomously.  What do you think?  Can I apply this nearly universally to all forms of laughter?  To what extent is this true? 

 

Surprise produces laughter?  

Lacking surprise suppresses laughter?

 

It's all about what the first sticker means to you vs what the second sticker means to you.

 

Labelling one funny and the other not, is something done post ante and not so helpful to understand the process.

 

You'd need to observe the associations triggered by the first sticker and what scripts and core beliefs you filter the sticker though and then follow that all the way down to bodily sensations and affect/laughter.

 

This sort of skill is built over time, some of it may require deeper work too, it's a process.

 

It's not necessarily surprise, though it can be surprise too. Eg you may see something a second time and still laugh, but the second time the element of surprise is gone.

 

Our emotional system can override our logical circuits. It was "built" (evolved) that way ( not to be confused with inability to regulate emotions, which is something different)

 

Hope the above helped 🙂

[thelerner]

I consider laughter a shared, even bonding, acknowledgement of absurdity or pain.  

[Daniel]

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

What's the difference between silent fear and being so afraid that you have to scream? I think it's the same with laughter. 

 

Good one.  Really good.  I'm going with "surprise", again.

 

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

I could hear all the counter arguments in my head myself the moment I wrote "seriousness is death". I thought for sure this is going to cause me trouble now 

 

 

trouble?  Moi?  

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

That statement is true from a certain perspective. I would appreciate if you could try and see that one perceptive where that statement is true, instead of searching for every perspective where it is not true. It would make my life much easier  

 

Understood.  But that's the opposite of useful when trying to derive the underlying mechanism which produces ALL laughter in all it's forms.  ( excluding fake-laughing )

 

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

When there is pain, seriousness creeps in and begins to suffocate the heart. The ability not to take painful events seriously enables one's heart to breathe again.

 

Great analogy!

 

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

That's what unconditional love means.

 

I disagree

 

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

That's what enlightenment means. 

 

I'm back to agreeing!  To a degree.  A type of enlightenment, yes: agree-agree, truly-true, amein-v'amein.

 

And that is what I was thinking to in the "Buddah's laughter" thread.  We're on the same page... now we need to bring it on home.

 

~Cresendo!~

 

~Selah!~

 

Question:  are we in agreement about surprise being the fundamental attribute needed for laughter to be produced?

 

Joy/love/sorrow/anguish - all can occur without producing laughter.  Is the necessary component surprise?

[Daniel]

12 hours ago, snowymountains said:

It's all about what the first sticker means to you vs what the second sticker means to you.

 

It's the same sticker both times.

[Tommy]

As the reader's digest use to say, Laughter the best medicine. How does one know how to laugh or when to laugh is another question. Which is essential in understanding "What is laughter?". Burt, I have no answer for. No other animal displays laughter like humans. Other animals can smile and feel happy or sad or even anger. But they do not laugh the way humans laugh. So, what is unique? Sometimes sense doesn't make sense and we laugh. Other times we are in a good mood and we laugh.

[Salvijus]

9 hours ago, Daniel said:

Question:  are we in agreement about surprise being the fundamental attribute needed for laughter to be produced?

 

It has to be questioned what is surprise then first. 

 

To answer the question I would say no, surprise is a stimulant but not a necessary one. You can induce expansion of the heart without any outside stimulus aswell. Where you're simply in state of laughter from within energetically speaking.

 

Laughter is not what you do, laugher is the way of being when you see the reality for what it is. (enlightenment) It's not something that comes out of your mouth, your every cell can be in extacy of laughter without you uttering a sound. 

 

Laughter is an expression of energy, it can be outside stimulated or just your way of being.That's why laugher is contagious. There is no element of surprise you can simply start laughing just because someone next to you is laughing. 

 

Edited July 6 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

 "laughter is contagious" videos 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6 by Salvijus

[snowymountains]

13 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

It's the same sticker both times.

 

Ah you said it but I read in haste. It's not always surprise, but in the case you describe it sounds like it is.

[Daniel]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

It has to be questioned what is surprise then first. 

 

Yes.  Already done.   That's how I know the answer to the riddle:  Why is the buddha "laughing"?

 

Did you see that thread?

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Laughter is not what you do, laughter is the way of being when you see the reality for what it is. (enlightenment) 

 

Excellent!  You know "why" do you know "how"?  I think you do.  And so do I.

 

Although, there is something unique about it.  Laughter. 

 

One can re-experience the awakening ( literal translation of the word "buddha" ).  And maybe that's why people enjoy it so much.

 

If so... brother?  What is happening at a stand-up comedy show?  Do you have those where you are?

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

Ah you said it but I read in haste. It's not always surprise, but in the case you describe it sounds like it is.

 

No problem.  I really appreciate this comment.  When is it not surprise?  The counter-examples are important.

[Daniel]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

"laughter is contagious" videos 

 

This is different

 

the same happens with tears

[Daniel]

@Salvijus,

 

The second video.  Around 40 seconds in " ... you forget everything ... "

 

I stopped watching after that.  Everything else is extraneous.

 

Laughter:

 

you forget  >>> surpirse! >>> rapid-onset-realization >>> laughter 

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, Salvijus said:

It has to be questioned what is surprise then first.

 

Surprise:  it's a non-existing "thing".  A non-thing thing.  It's a gateless-gate.  A path to enlightenment.  One of several ( many ? ) in the form of comedy.

 

Sympathetic paradoxes are very powerful.

 

Edited July 6 by Daniel

[snowymountains]

41 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

No problem.  I really appreciate this comment.  When is it not surprise?  The counter-examples are important.

 

e.g. a game I play with my kid, we do funny grimaces and whoever laughs first loses.

It's the same grimaces for some years now but some expressions are so funny that we laugh again and again, without any surprise.

 

Desensitization will surely have an effect, so if we played this too often maybe we'd stop laughing but still it wouldn't be lack of surprise, it would systematic desensitization.

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

e.g. a game I play with my kid, we do funny grimaces and whoever laughs first loses.

It's the same grimaces for some years now but some expressions are so funny that we laugh again and again, without any surprise.

 

Desensitization will surely have an effect, so if we played this too often maybe we'd stop laughing but still it wouldn't be lack of surprise, it would systematic desensitization.

 

Yes, This example was discussed at dinner last night with my own family.  We decided it was still surprise.   The question is, what is surprising about it?  We were thinking it's the transition from happy loving face to grimace.  The transition creates a sharp contrast.  The example we were using was the pouting-lower-lip.  The "boo-boo" lip that my son ( who is now 15 ) used to do. We would chuckle at it.  It was so cute.  It never got old.  And we were thinking that there's something there, where, it's like the mind ( or heart ) skips a beat or two.  It's this empty space in thought or emotion, and then the rapid return to conscious thought and feeling that produces the surprise phenomenon.

 

This empty space, of thought and/or emotion: if that's the surprise, then, that's an non-thing.  It's breaking the rhythm of thought and feeling.  Like syncopation.  It's fun.  Groovy.

 

Well that's what we were thinking.

 

Next time you play the game, maybe, pay attention to what's happening in your mind when you're compelled to laugh?  Isn't like finding your keys, or any lost object?  And you suddenly realize where it was?  Like an epiphany proceeded by a lack of thought and feelings?