Salvijus Posted July 6 You're not going to laugh if a crocodile chops your arm by surprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted July 6 7 hours ago, Daniel said: Yes, This example was discussed at dinner last night with my own family. We decided it was still surprise. The question is, what is surprising about it? We were thinking it's the transition from happy loving face to grimace. The transition creates a sharp contrast. The example we were using was the pouting-lower-lip. The "boo-boo" lip that my son ( who is now 15 ) used to do. We would chuckle at it. It was so cute. It never got old. And we were thinking that there's something there, where, it's like the mind ( or heart ) skips a beat or two. It's this empty space in thought or emotion, and then the rapid return to conscious thought and feeling that produces the surprise phenomenon. This empty space, of thought and/or emotion: if that's the surprise, then, that's an non-thing. It's breaking the rhythm of thought and feeling. Like syncopation. It's fun. Groovy. Well that's what we were thinking. Next time you play the game, maybe, pay attention to what's happening in your mind when you're compelled to laugh? Isn't like finding your keys, or any lost object? And you suddenly realize where it was? Like an epiphany proceeded by a lack of thought and feelings? The context to see it for laughter is decensitisation, not surprise. I have paid attention to it, I still laugh. The fact that we know a process doesn't make it stop happening. Read eg about the McGurk effect, even after you have read about it, the effect still works ( on this specific one even decensitisation won't stop it from working) - this is unrelated to laughter, just to demonstrate that knowledge of a process doesn't mean the process no longer works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted July 6 9 hours ago, Salvijus said: You're not going to laugh if a crocodile chops your arm by surprise. I hate to say this, but, friend ~sigh~ There is a point, when people are in extreme pain, and it continues. If they remain conscious, they will sometimes start laughing. It's eerie. I think it's because their brain skips a beat, or two, from the trauma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted July 6 1 hour ago, snowymountains said: The context to see it for laughter is decensitisation, not surprise. Got it. That's a valuable insight. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted July 6 1 hour ago, snowymountains said: knowledge of a process doesn't mean the process no longer works. Thank you. I'll try to keep that in mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salvijus Posted July 7 5 hours ago, Daniel said: I hate to say this, but, friend ~sigh~ There is a point, when people are in extreme pain, and it continues. If they remain conscious, they will sometimes start laughing. It's eerie. I think it's because their brain skips a beat, or two, from the trauma. It's possible to laugh at everything in the world. Especially if you're deeply enlightened and see everything with a non serious eye. To the point where even snatched arm means nothing to you. So you laugh. What I was trying to point out is that it is not the surprise that is fundamental to laughter. But something deeper than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted July 7 (edited) 6 hours ago, Salvijus said: What I was trying to point out is that it is not the surprise that is fundamental to laughter. But something deeper than that. It's not surprise, but something deeper? Could it be that surprise is deeper than you are envisioning? Did you notice my comparison to a gateless-gate? Surprise is a physical manifestation of a Zen Buddhist Koan. I think it's rather deep. And I think the reluctance to acknowledge its depth is perhaps , forgive me, ... a hint of hubris? Those who have worked to consider themselves enlightened, I have found, do not like to consider that others can become enlightened without doing what they themselves did. Maybe, it's as simple as surprise? All the ingredients are there? Literally. For enlightenment? Why not "surprising-laughter" ? https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate Edited July 7 by Daniel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salvijus Posted July 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daniel said: Could it be that surprise is deeper than you are envisioning? That's why I asked you for your definition of surprise. 2 hours ago, Daniel said: Surprise is a physical manifestation of a Zen Buddhist Koa If your definition of surprise is enlightenment, then we agree. The fundamental aspect to laughter is enlightenment. And enlightenment is synonymous with God, Love, Truth, Laughter and because existence is never the same twice, existence is always amusing and surprising. In that sense you can fit "surprise" with the other qualities of enlightenment aswell. Edited July 7 by Salvijus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
