Maddie Posted June 28 Again are we talking about "Satan" specifically, or just any perceived "evil spirit" in general? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 28 11 minutes ago, old3bob said: curiosity can kill a cat, And the cat can kill a mouse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 28 2 minutes ago, Maddie said: Again are we talking about "Satan" specifically, or just any perceived "evil spirit" in general? Isnt that pretty much the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 28 1 minute ago, NaturaNaturans said: Isnt that pretty much the same? No, "Satan" is the name of a very specific being in various (mostly) Abrahamic literature. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 28 Just now, Maddie said: No, "Satan" is the name of a very specific being in various (mostly) Abrahamic literature. Who is an evil spirit. The king of evil spirits, even. The advisary of God, or good. My argument has been that «satan» is a lable we put on much we dont like. He is barley mentioned in the bible, so a lot of the lore around him is non-biblical, folk belief. If you disagree, thats fine, but id like it If you flesh it Out more. Looking forward to Daniels take from a jewish perspective as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 28 1 minute ago, NaturaNaturans said: Who is an evil spirit. The king of evil spirits, even. The advisary of God, or good. My argument has been that «satan» is a lable we put on much we dont like. He is barley mentioned in the bible, so a lot of the lore around him is non-biblical, folk belief. If you disagree, thats fine, but id like it If you flesh it Out more. Looking forward to Daniels take from a jewish perspective as well. if the question had been "what is evil" then that would be a bit more encompassing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, Maddie said: if the question had been "what is evil" then that would be a bit more encompassing. Sure maddie, but id like to hear Your thoughts, please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 28 1 minute ago, NaturaNaturans said: Sure maddie, but id like to hear Your thoughts, please. I already stated those about the Christian version, the Jewish version, and the scholarly understanding of where the concept came from earlier in the post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 28 15 minutes ago, Maddie said: I already stated those about the Christian version, the Jewish version, and the scholarly understanding of where the concept came from earlier in the post. Sooo zoroastrianism -> dualism -> God vs. devil? How do you account for the role of devas and asuras being flipped in zoroastrian and indic belief? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 28 18 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said: Sooo zoroastrianism -> dualism -> God vs. devil? How do you account for the role of devas and asuras being flipped in zoroastrian and indic belief? I don't know, but that is a completely different topic lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 28 22 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said: Sooo zoroastrianism -> dualism -> God vs. devil? How do you account for the role of devas and asuras being flipped in zoroastrian and indic belief? If I had to take a guess based upon what I understand about human nature maybe one group switched them to distinguish themselves from the other? But like I said that is just a guess on my part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted June 28 4 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: Sure. The problem is that I dont find any objectivity in good and evil Excellent! You've got a head start. I'm on my phone. Typing is awkward, let's reconvene Sunday? You and I seem to be online at approximately the same times daily. Best wishes, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted June 28 2 hours ago, Maddie said: Again are we talking about "Satan" specifically, or just any perceived "evil spirit" in general? "Satan" in all it's various forms madrega to madrega, all the way to the aibeshter. Translation: from tip to tail all the way to the most-high Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted June 28 (edited) I'd say names are kind of secondary to the principal nature of beings, but are also reflectively associated with and used with effect. (to expel or invoke) Edited June 28 by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 28 6 hours ago, Maddie said: The original question is "who or what is Satan". My question would be "who's Satan are we talking about"? Different traditions have different versions of Satan. It must be Daniel's personal Satan then . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted June 28 On 6/27/2024 at 1:14 PM, Daniel said: @NaturaNaturans, Friend, who or what is satan? Do you know? Have you ever conversed with any satanists? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 28 I am curious If satan, the adventsstund, has a Prometheus, Mitra, Lucifer theme going on? Rebelion? Also @Daniel, your interpertation of Job would both be interresting and serve as a start for discussion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 29 Satan ....... for when things go 'negative' ; 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idiot_stimpy Posted June 29 (edited) Satan is the moral prosecutor. I hope you have a good defence lawyer. Edited June 29 by idiot_stimpy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted June 29 (edited) It's an interesting topic, I never got the time to dive into it. Some subtopics I always wanted to look at From scripture are there any references that the snake in the garden of eden is the same being as satan that Christ confronted? Are medieval depictions of satan accurate per bible descriptions or an accurate description would look differently? Was Moses' "angel of death" divine or demonic in the celestial hierarchy? Given it killed babies, I can't stomach it's considered divine but maybe that's just me. I find that the medieval depiction of Satan resembles Pan. I wonder if that's Christianity mocking an old god and if not, if there's any explanation for the similarities in depictions Edited June 29 by snowymountains Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 29 43 minutes ago, snowymountains said: From scripture are there any references that the snake in the garden of eden is the same being as satan that Christ confronted? In the Hebrew bible no. In the Christian New Testament yes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted June 29 41 minutes ago, Maddie said: In the Hebrew bible no. In the Christian New Testament yes. The OT won't have about Christ, clearly, the question is, is OT Satan the same entity in the NT Satan ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted June 29 If one dabbles around and or jokes around with a scorpion they should not be surprised if they get bitten by a scorpion. (as an analogy) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted June 29 4 minutes ago, snowymountains said: The OT won't have about Christ, clearly, the question is, is OT Satan the same entity in the NT Satan ? Your question was about the snake being equated to Satan which is what my answer was in reference to. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted June 29 It is a follow up. And an important one. Open for interpertation, I think. One thing to keep in mind is that there wasnt a Christian cannon before, well, the Christian cannon was constructed. Curiously, the beggining seems to have a lot more diversity and myth, like «the god of this world,» and a higher God. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
