Jewish Plurality

[Daniel]

Please friends, Judaism respects you AND the others.

 

I'm reviewing the writing of the Prophets of my faith.  People cast Judaism in a terrible light assuming we are like the others.  It's not true!  Judaism is not:  "My way or the highway."

 

Micah 4

 

כי כל־העמים ילכו איש בשם אלהיו ואנחנו נלך בשם־יהוה אלהינו לעולם ועד׃

 

For let all people walk everyone in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.

 

This chapter is famous, for those of us who practice Judaism.  It contains the verse about a future world perfected where none shall learn war anymore.  That future world is NOT replacing the other Gods.  We are not like Islam.  We are not like Christianity.  We do not assert our beliefs on others.  We envision a future world perfected which is inclusive and cooperative with other faiths.

 

Tagging @NaturaNaturans.

.

Edited July 3 by Daniel

[NaturaNaturans]

22 minutes ago, Daniel said:

For let all people walk everyone in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.

But I thought judaism was monotheist? 

Edited July 3 by NaturaNaturans

[Daniel]

49 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

But I thought judaism was monotheist? 

 

So what?  That doesn't mean we need to force others to be monotheistic.  We're Jewish Monotheists!

 

Let me make an extreme analogy?  To make a point.

 

We believe God is in charge, and God knows best.  What if God reveals itself to my neighbor as a cookie?  A talking cookie that flies and glows in the dark?  Who am I to argue?  God revealed it self to me at Sinai.  That has nothing to do with my neighbor and their divine revelation in the form of a floating glowing cookie.

 

Let's up the ante?

 

What if God reveals itself to me as a floating glowing divine cookie?  Would I be able to deny it?  Should I even try?  This is God, we're talking about.  I don't choose how, when, and to what extent God is revealing itself to me.  So I cannot exclude the possibility that God has revealed itself to others in other ways.

 

All I can tell you is:  I was born a Jew.  So God has a plan for me as a Jew.  If someone is not born Jewish, then God MUST have a different plan for them.  That's all.  Simple.

 

Besides, making an argument on principle doesn't work here.  The scripture says what it says.  There is no arguing, rationally, with words on a page.  The words on the page always win.  That's why contracts are written.  That's why laws are written.  That's why poems are written.  That's why people autograph.

 

Make sense?

 

Don't believe the hype, dude.  It sounds like someone's been feeding you false info.

 

Edited July 4 by Daniel

[Daniel]

@NaturaNaturans

 

See here?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_religious_pluralism

 

Don't forget, my opinion of Maimonides... when reading this, please.  He's the outlier.

 

Edited July 4 by Daniel

[NaturaNaturans]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

So what?  That doesn't mean we need to force others to be monotheistic.  We're Jewish Monotheists!

 

Let me make an extreme analogy?  To make a point.

 

We believe God is in charge, and God knows best.  What if God reveals itself to my neighbor as a cookie?  A talking cookie that flies and glows in the dark?  Who am I to argue?  God revealed it self to me at Sinai.  That has nothing to do with my neighbor and their divine revelation in the form of a floating glowing cookie.

 

Let's up the ante?

 

What if God reveals itself to me as a floating glowing divine cookie?  Would I be able to deny it?  Should I even try?  This is God, we're talking about.  I don't choose how, when, and to what extent God is revealing itself to me.  So I cannot exclude the possibility that God has revealed itself to others in other ways.

 

All I can tell you is:  I was born a Jew.  So God has a plan for me as a Jew.  If someone is not born Jewish, then God MUST have a different plan for them.  That's all.  Simple.

 

Besides, making an argument on principle doesn't work here.  The scripture says what it says.  There is no arguing, rationally, with words on a page.  The words on the page always win.  That's why contracts are written.  That's why laws are written.  That's why poems are written.  That's why people autograph.

 

Make sense?

 

Don't believe the hype, dude.  It sounds like someone's been feeding you false info.

 

Morning to you, If you live in Israel.
 

Ill admit to being a little bit unfair. I do agree that historically, Islam and Christianity, have been way more intolerant (towards others) then judaism, and this is because they are proseletyshing and world religion. In the case of christianity, I dont think scripture justify this, but rather abuse of it. I dont see anything wrong with folk religion, like that of both yours and mine distant ancestors. In the case of Islam, Id better keep my mouth shut as I am to unklowedgeble. It cant be all bad, but my intuition is that it is lacking in theological depth, violent and intolerant.

 

What I said in my last post, was not about tolerance, but rather wording. For me, it seems like the author was acknowledging the excistence of other deitites. So not monotheistic in this sense. To monotheists there is only one God, and to me it is only one as well. 
 

From what Ive discussed with others and listened to on the web (I like history and comperative religion), early, pre platonic judaism was not monotheist, but rather monoletary or something similar.

Edited July 4 by NaturaNaturans

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

For me, it seems like the author was acknowledging the excistence of other deitites. So not monotheistic in this sense.

 

Ahhhh.  Got it.  Thanks for explaining.

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

From what Ive discussed with others and listened to on the web (I like history and comperative religion), early, pre platonic judaism was not monotheist, but rather monoletary or something similar.

 

~nods~

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

But I thought judaism was monotheist? 

 

It was nice of Daniel to give you proof of Jewish  henotheism  and show that Judaism  isnt monotheism

 

  

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

So what?  That doesn't mean we need to force others to be monotheistic.  We're Jewish Monotheists!

 

Let me make an extreme analogy?  To make a point.

 

We believe God is in charge, and God knows best.  What if God reveals itself to my neighbor as a cookie?  A talking cookie that flies and glows in the dark?  Who am I to argue?  God revealed it self to me at Sinai.  That has nothing to do with my neighbor and their divine revelation in the form of a floating glowing cookie.

 

Let's up the ante?

 

What if God reveals itself to me as a floating glowing divine cookie?  Would I be able to deny it?  Should I even try?  This is God, we're talking about.  I don't choose how, when, and to what extent God is revealing itself to me.  So I cannot exclude the possibility that God has revealed itself to others in other ways.

 

All I can tell you is:  I was born a Jew.  So God has a plan for me as a Jew.  If someone is not born Jewish, then God MUST have a different plan for them.  That's all.  Simple.

 

Besides, making an argument on principle doesn't work here.  The scripture says what it says.  There is no arguing, rationally, with words on a page.  The words on the page always win.  That's why contracts are written.  That's why laws are written.  That's why poems are written.  That's why people autograph.

 

Make sense?

 

Don't believe the hype, dude.  It sounds like someone's been feeding you false info.

 

 

You see , there is the problem !  So divisive .  My religion taught me that 'God' has the same plan for everyone regardless of the cultural clothing of their religion - which usually comes from some irrelevant time and cultural issues and laws from the past anyway .

 

Your spiritual computer might need updating  ?

 

regarding words on a page 'winning ' ...  these words are on a page ...     

 

And as far as  NN being fed false info  ... thats 'cute' .

 

 

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

It was nice of Daniel to give you proof of Jewish  henotheism  and show that Judaism  isnt monotheism

 

  

 

Assuming it means what you think it means, one verse from one prophet is proof of that?

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

So divisive .

 

Um, no.
 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

regarding words on a page 'winning '

 

correct.  There is no arguing about what words you typed, because they are on the screen infront of us.

 

The prophet very clearly states that other people are welcome to have their own religion.  Judaism does not assert itself onto other cultures unless they are, ya know, rapists, murders, buring children to death.... 

[liminal_luke]

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

 Judaism does not assert itself onto other cultures unless they are, ya know, rapists, murders, buring children to death.... 

 

Too bad.  Christians give proselytization a bad name but I wouldn´t mind so much if some nice Jewish boys knocked on my door bearing bagels and pastrami.  

[Daniel]

@NaturaNaturans.  also @Apech I think you'll appreciate this too.

 

Natura, friend, something I think you are not appreciating and simply it's lack of access, are the implications of the God concept of the magnitude of the God of Abraham.  It permits plurality as a natural consequence of being absolutely literally infinite.  It's a great mystery, and something I enjoy discussing and teaching about.  But it's impossible to share these ideas with individuals who are, forgive me, stuck in a mindset which requires seeing Judaism as the root cause of the world's problems.

 

Bro, I'm a smart guy.  My insight is razor sharp.  I know what's going on.

 

Listen:  One of the greatest assets we have in America which is missing in Europe are the ADOS.  They know what to do.  They know things.  They have a lot to teach.  I've said it before on this forum.  They're spiritual connection to The Most High is unparalleled.  It's not a coincidence that at the end of the video the white dude in the audience stands up and is clearly inspired.  It's precious.

 

 

 

Edited July 5 by Daniel

[NaturaNaturans]

49 minutes ago, Daniel said:

But it's impossible to share these ideas with individuals who are, forgive me, stuck in a mindset which requires seeing Judaism as the root cause of the world's problems.

I really dont. It is just one faith out of maaaany. A relativley small one as well. Allthough ill admit that the etnic nature of it is foreign to me. Why do you keep tagging me If you think I hate you and just want to lecture me?

 

ADOS? Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule?

 

12 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

It was nice of Daniel to give you proof of Jewish  henotheism  and show that Judaism  isnt monotheism

 

  

One step forward, two step back.

[Apech]

9 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I really dont. It is just one faith out of maaaany. A relativley small one as well. Allthough ill admit that the etnic nature of it is foreign to me. Why do you keep tagging me If you think I hate you and just want to lecture me?

 

ADOS? Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule?

 

One step forward, two step back.

Yeah what’s an ADOS?

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Why do you keep tagging me If you think I hate you and just want to lecture me?

 

I don''t think you hate me.  That's not what I said.  Lecture you?  Well, the answer is because I posted a thread with a riddle and you seemed put-off by engaging with riddle as beneficial intellectual pursuit.  And this is not the first time you have beeen reluctant to engage in conversation preferring to be told tthe answer.  So, that leaves really only two options:

 

1)  limit my conversations with you to matters which are superficial and boring

2)  explain in detail, at risk, of it becoming a school teacher lecture. 

 

I'm not trying to lecture you, but, there's few options if the content is deep, meaningful, and detailed.

 

Ultimately you seem to have misconceptions about Judaism and life in general.  I think you would do well to shed those misconceptions and open your mind to the alterative possibilites.  Opening the mind to alteratives is one of my specialities.

 

3 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

ADOS? Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule?

 

Apologies, I was rushing, as I am now.  I have a morning meeting starting soon.

 

A.D.O.S.  - African Descendants Of Slaves

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

One step forward, two step back.

 

It's a dance, that's for sure.

 

Dude, what did you think of the song?  It's great isn't it?  What you're missing in your comprehension of Judaism is the magnitude and the implications.  That's the point.  Whatever it is you're thinking about Judaism do you want it to be correct?  Or do you need a false version of Judaism to validate whatever else you're going thru right now?

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

Yeah what’s an ADOS?

 

Sorry.  I was speaking "American".  And rushing.  The answer is above.  I tagged you because I thought the song would maybe fit well with the discussion over in your PPD.

 

Hope you have a good day,

[NaturaNaturans]

20 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

I don''t think you hate me.  That's not what I said.  Lecture you?  Well, the answer is because I posted a thread with a riddle and you seemed put-off by engaging with riddle as beneficial intellectual pursuit.  And this is not the first time you have beeen reluctant to engage in conversation preferring to be told tthe answer.  So, that leaves really only two options:

 

1)  limit my conversations with you to matters which are superficial and boring

2)  explain in detail, at risk, of it becoming a school teacher lecture. 

 

I'm not trying to lecture you, but, there's few options if the content is deep, meaningful, and detailed.

 

Ultimately you seem to have misconceptions about Judaism and life in general.  I think you would do well to shed those misconceptions and open your mind to the alterative possibilites.  Opening the mind to alteratives is one of my specialities.

 

 

Apologies, I was rushing, as I am now.  I have a morning meeting starting soon.

 

A.D.O.S.  - African Descendants Of Slaves

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

It's a dance, that's for sure.

 

Dude, what did you think of the song?  It's great isn't it?  What you're missing in your comprehension of Judaism is the magnitude and the implications.  That's the point.  Whatever it is you're thinking about Judaism do you want it to be correct?  Or do you need a false version of Judaism to validate whatever else you're going thru right now?

«A wise man once said nothing at all»

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

... emotionless ...

 

If that's true, and I doubt that it is, I wish you a speedy recovery.

[Cobie]

<< empty souls who just wake up and look to debate >> 

 

 

Edited July 5 by Cobie

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Assuming it means what you think it means, one verse from one prophet is proof of that?

 

No one needs  to assume anything , the definition is easy to look up if they dont know what it means .  If you want proof of henotheism I am pretty sure  YOU KNOW it is found in more than one verse from one one prophet .

 

You cant seem to write one short sentence without it being absolutely  'loaded '.

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Um, no.

 

Yup .

 

Its clear in what you wrote , anyone can see that . 

 

' Chosen people'  means the other lot are not  chosen by God  ....

 

But according to Danial  ;  " Um, no. "   -  I think you better run that one by your Rabbi .

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Too bad.  Christians give proselytization a bad name but I wouldn´t mind so much if some nice Jewish boys knocked on my door bearing bagels and pastrami.  

 

Dont believe him Luke .    The FACT that Judasim did 'assert itself'  in other cultures  made it a major ingredient of the pudding of western culture we now have !

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Judaism/The-role-of-Judaism-in-Western-culture-and-civilization

 

And we just know what Daniel will try next  ..... so  ;

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/assertive

 

So expect a 'Jewish door knock' soon    

 

 

"Open up Luke !  I know you are in there .  "

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Daniel said:

@NaturaNaturans.  also @Apech I think you'll appreciate this too.

 

Natura, friend, something I think you are not appreciating and simply it's lack of access, are the implications of the God concept of the magnitude of the God of Abraham.  It permits plurality as a natural consequence of being absolutely literally infinite.  It's a great mystery, and something I enjoy discussing and teaching about.  But it's impossible to share these ideas with individuals who are, forgive me, stuck in a mindset which requires seeing Judaism as the root cause of the world's problems.

 

Okay,  I am calling you out on that ! He should not forgive you as that is a typical bullshit finger pointing accusation that I have never felt from Mat . Its a cop out and fake towel throw in .... I give up due to you being so prejudiced , you should be ashamed to do that .   But Mat being a good guy, I am sure will take it a lot better than i do  !

 

Bro, I'm a smart guy.  My insight is razor sharp.  I know what's going on.

 

You really are not Daniel, but I understand that is how you see yourself .

 

Listen:  One of the greatest assets we have in America which is missing in Europe are the ADOS.  They know what to do.  They know things.  They have a lot to teach.  I've said it before on this forum.  They're spiritual connection to The Most High is unparalleled.  It's not a coincidence that at the end of the video the white dude in the audience stands up and is clearly inspired.  It's precious.

 

Jeezus ! ....Are you being serious ! 

 

I need to correct you again :   " It's not a coincidence that at the end of the video the  white  ONLY dude in the audience stands up and is clearly inspired.  It's precious.

 

Ya know , I could post a Benny Hinn video here  - you will see people getting a LOT more excited about a 'performance'.

 

 

Edited July 5 by Nungali