The ultimate goal of Neidan

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 would you care to explain what Ling Qi  靈氣 is,  and how to cultivate it? 

 

 

We are restricted by "to cultivate it" by the question that was asked. If you are running into all kind of definitions, then,  good luck. I think we should address one thing at time. Otherwise, you are confusing yourself.

[Shadow_self]

4 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

We are restricted by "to cultivate it" by the question that was asked. If you are running into all kind of definitions, then,  good luck. I think we should address one thing at time. Otherwise, you are confusing yourself.

 

Im not running into al types of definitions, Im pointing out the issues with the google translate version of it, and pointing it out to you, because what you described was "aura", though the other translation with the same character "reiki" which japanese for spiritual energy is more accurate (though still not entirely accurate)

 

I know what it is, and  how to cultivate it  I was trying to ascertain whether you did

 

There was a lesson in there for you CD, im not sure you understand what it is, but Im sure you will see what I mean if you think about it for a while  

Edited August 26 by Shadow_self

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I know how to cultivate it  I was trying to ascertain whether you did

No, I didn't. I have a different definition in mind. It was not my intention to go into the practice. I didn't know that was what you had in mind in the first place.

[Antares]

7 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

De(德) shouldn't even be considered in the discussion. Peace!

Yes, if you wish so, Boss, I stop writing here about De.

But De is not phylosofical term. De is the piece of Dao inside you. If there is no De inside you would not even exist 

Edited August 26 by Antares

[Taoist Texts]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

On 8/24/2024 at 7:57 PM, Antares said:

For De nourishing more ingredients are required  

Yuan jing(元精, original jing) is the prenatal jing originated from the parents. It stays in the body to be maintained by the postnatal jing. It is not part of a medicine. De(德) is a philosophical term. It is not a substance in the body as one might think it would be.

De(德) shouldn't even be considered in the discussion. Peace!

I would be interested to know where this idea of De nourishing come into western neidan. Unfortunately the western neidaneers being illiterate do not know it themselves and cannot quote it. The idea does not come from WLP because WLP clearly says

全德者，在世法中能全五伦之德，于道法中又能全五戒。De is 5 relations and 5 precepts. (probably they misunderstood and made up, as usual)

[Chang dao ling]

10 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

would you care to explain what Ling Qi  靈氣 is,  and how to cultivate it?

According to li hongzi (founder of falun gong) cultivation of ling Qi starts from greater heavenly cycle or macrocosmic orbit. In order to cultivate ling Qi one has to accumulate de ( virtue) we can accumulate de by being truthful, compassionate , tolerance atleast in his system. When you accumulate enough de when you open MCO de starts to transform into ling Qi. This is the way you can cultivate ling Qi in his system. Li also transform his students de into ling Qi 

Edited August 26 by Chang dao ling

[johndoe2012]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

I would be interested to know where this idea of De nourishing come into western neidan. Unfortunately the western neidaneers being illiterate do not know it themselves and cannot quote it. The idea does not come from WLP because WLP clearly says

全德者，在世法中能全五伦之德，于道法中又能全五戒。De is 5 relations and 5 precepts. (probably they misunderstood and made up, as usual)

 

Where are you from? 

 

Not a Westerner I guess? 

 

What is your lineage? Books? 

[Taoist Texts]

46 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

Not a Westerner I guess? 

yes i am

46 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

What is your lineage? Books? 

yes it is;)

[Cobie]

 

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… De is 5 relations and 5 precepts …

 

The 5 relations refers to Wuxing (五行 wu3 xing2); 5 precepts are the Buddhist morality.  Yes?

 

Edited August 26 by Cobie

[Cobie]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… where this idea of De nourishing come into western neidan …

 

Maybe they got it confused with the idea of the nurturing De in DDJ Ch 51

道 生 之; 德 畜 之 dào shēng zhī ; dé chù zhī  - Dao created you; virtue raised you. 
 

 

Edited August 26 by Cobie

[Shadow_self]

13 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

No, I didn't. I have a different definition in mind. It was not my intention to go into the practice. I didn't know that was what you had in mind in the first place.

 

I was just wondering whether you actually knew what it was, or were just using google translate and then reposting it without fully knowing what it is

 

I got my answer though   thanks for responding

[Cobie]

6 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

According to li hongzi (founder of falun gong) cultivation of ling Qi starts from greater heavenly cycle or macrocosmic orbit. In order to cultivate ling Qi one has to accumulate de ( virtue) we can accumulate de by being truthful, compassionate , tolerance atleast in his system. When you accumulate enough de when you open MCO de starts to transform into ling Qi. This is the way you can cultivate ling Qi in his system. Li also transform his students de into ling Qi 

That was interesting to read, thanks.

 

 

[Nintendao]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:04 AM, Master Logray said:

YangShen

On 8/25/2024 at 11:07 AM, damdao said:

Yangsheng

forgive me if this has already come up, but it might be worth noting in here that there is a big difference between 陽神 (a result of alchemy) and 养生 (for keeping fit)

 

[Nintendao]

😇

Edited August 26 by Nintendao
my ipad is acting goofy

[Master Logray]

55 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

forgive me if this has already come up, but it might be worth noting in here that there is a big difference between 陽神 (a result of alchemy) and 养生 (for keeping fit)

 

 

I am not conversant with Pinyin.

[Shadow_self]

8 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

According to li hongzi (founder of falun gong) cultivation of ling Qi starts from greater heavenly cycle or macrocosmic orbit. In order to cultivate ling Qi one has to accumulate de ( virtue) we can accumulate de by being truthful, compassionate , tolerance atleast in his system. When you accumulate enough de when you open MCO de starts to transform into ling Qi. This is the way you can cultivate ling Qi in his system. Li also transform his students de into ling Qi 

 

I have no tolerance for Li to be totally honest (thats a discussion beyond the scope of the thread)

 

What i'll say is, if someones cultivating Ling Qi, it opens them up to an enourmous amount of Siddhi and whatnot. This is not subtle at all and is very much manifest

 

Make of that what you will

[Taoist Texts]

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

Maybe they got it confused with the idea of the nurturing De in DDJ Ch 51

highly likely!

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

道 生 之; 德 畜 之 dào shēng zhī ; dé chù zhī  - Dao created you; virtue raised you. 

in this line 之 refers to dao (same as ziran)

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

The 5 relations refers to Wuxing

close 五伦         五倫    wǔ lún the five Confucian relationships (ruler-subject, father-son, brother-brother, husband-wife, friend-friend)

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

5 precepts are the Buddhist morality.  Yes?

yes;) 五戒 wǔjiè 1) * five prohibitions (measures to prevent crime; oath, order, prohibition, check, instruction) 2) buddhas. five vows (vows; do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not consume wine)

 

[Antares]

7 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

Where are you from? 

 

Not a Westerner I guess? 

 

What is your lineage? Books? 

His "lineage" comes from self - taught lady from Taiwan who was actually banned here for bad language .

Sorry, my language (English I mean) is not perfect too.. but i meant she was rude to other people in this forum

Edited August 26 by Antares

[Antares]

9 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

According to li hongzi (founder of falun gong) cultivation of ling Qi starts from greater heavenly cycle or macrocosmic orbit. In order to cultivate ling Qi one has to accumulate de ( virtue) we can accumulate de by being truthful, compassionate , tolerance atleast in his system. When you accumulate enough de when you open MCO de starts to transform into ling Qi. This is the way you can cultivate ling Qi in his system. Li also transform his students de into ling Qi 

This is "external" part of De but this is correct. It helps to cultivate "internal" De

[damdao]

The meaning of 德 dé is richer and more complex than "virtue" so, what @Antares said is correct, from certain point of view (and alchemy support that view, imo).

For those interested in a linguistic analysis here we have a good one

https://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp235_de_character_early_China.pdf

 

And, from a philosophical point of view, 德 dé was regarded as the active and creative power of the Dao since the beginning of daoism, not merely as "virtue". For more about this you can read the partial translation of Sima Chengzhen's treatise Daoti Lun or Embodimet of the Dao by Livia Kohn in her The Taoist Experience, page 19.

Here is an excerpt:

"The Tao is all-pervasive; it transforms all from the beginning. Virtue arises in its following; it completes all beings to their end. They thus appear in birth and the completion of life. In the world, they have two different names, yet fulfilling their activities, they return to the same ancestral ground. They are two and yet always one. They are two and yet always one. Therefore there is no Tao outside of the omnipresence of Virtue. There is no Virtue different from the completion of life through the Tao. They are one and still appear as two.
The Tao is found in endless transformation and pervasive omnipresence. Virtue shines forth in the completion of life and in
following along. They are always one; they are always two. 
Two in one, they are all-pervasive. All-pervasive, they can yet be distinguished. Thus their names are the Tao and the Virtue."

[Antares]

I can refer to Evgeny Torchinov - a Russian researcher of Daoist Tradition who is one of the best researchers in this subject, I am not sure he was translated into English. But he traveled a lot throughout China and he was very fluent in Chinese. I have just opened his book and read about achievements in daoist tradition: "human immortals are daoists who collected a grand power of De and who prolonged their life to  limitless...  ". BTW I dont get this from WLP - dont associate me with this lineage, i have no any relation to them. 

[ChiDragon]

21 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Here google is translating it as Reiki 霊気

 

This is a better translation, as Reiki is the art of working with Ling Qi

 

Rei = Spiritual

KI = Energy

I would stay away from google for translating esoteric term from a field, philosophy or a religion. Rather I would go to the main source that is more accurate for its definition. Farther more, I would stay away from using the universal definition of chi as energy. It is because it could be very misleading in a field, philosophy or religion.

When one talks about 靈氣, one must take a stand in a field, philosophy or religion. 
It seems to me that Reiki 霊気, here, is a Japanese term for medical Qigong.  The Chinese called it 治療氣功( therapeutic Qigong).

FYI The Japanese use the same Chinese characters with their own definition. In some cases, it has a complete different meaning in Chinese. Thus there is no exception for 靈氣. As far as I am concern, I will stand for what I had said about 靈氣 with the Chinese definition.

PS @Shadow_selfHave a good laugh!

Edited August 26 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

14 hours ago, Antares said:

Yes, if you wish so, Boss, I stop writing here about De.

But De is not phylosofical term. De is the piece of Dao inside you. If there is no De inside you would not even exist 

Most people had been reading the misinformation about 德(De) or 道德.
In Confucianism,  道德:  a compound character, means morality or virtue.
Those who follow, observe and practice the principles of Confucius are considered to have the virtue of morality or 道德.

In Dao De Ching, 道德經: 道 and 德 are two separated characters that is not compounded.
道 is Tao, the principles of Dao,
德 is the virtue of Dao.
Those who follow, observe and practice the principles of Dao are considered to have the virtue of Dao or 道德.

The cultivation of both 德 or 道德 are for mental health rather than physical heath.

Edited August 26 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

48 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

In Confucianism

just forget about it. this is mundane understanding of De

50 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

道 is Tao, the principles of Dao,
德 is the virtue of Dao.

Dao or Tao? Chose one name for it. You wont be able to understand it if you have no teacher. Texts are good to read but knowledgeable teacher is best solution to understand texts. Translation is not accurate in most cases. As I said Evgeny Torchinov was expert in ancient Chinese but you have no chance to read his works.  

[ChiDragon]

29 minutes ago, Antares said:

just forget about it. this is mundane understanding of De

Dao or Tao? Chose one name for it. You wont be able to understand it if you have no teacher. Texts are good to read but knowledgeable teacher is best solution to understand texts. Translation is not accurate in most cases. As I said Evgeny Torchinov was expert in ancient Chinese but you have no chance to read his works.  

If one study the 道德經 long enough, then, one would know that 道 as Dao or Tao.  Dao De Jing (DDJ) and Tao Te Ching(TTC) are known as 道德經.

FYI I have my first hand native source to read. Other than reading second hand translation to mislead myself. I am reading a well written text book by a well known native scholar with the highest authority on the subject.

Did you have a chance to read  老子註譯及評介 written by:  陳鼓應. Peace!

Edited August 26 by ChiDragon