The ultimate goal of Neidan

[Master Logray]

Using a lethal weapon to train and demonstrate Neidan is highly questionable.   When one trains in weapon, every move has an intention to puncture, cut, knock, slice and spill blood, damage human flesh, organ and kill.    It is not a dance.   A modern version would be a bunch of people wielding and waving AK47s, would they be good Neidanists if they can do it more than 3-6 minutes?

 

If Qigong, Neigong and Neidan are mostly about breathing and oxygen, then why the people in ancient China developed these skills?  They don't have sufficient oxygen in those days?

 

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

It involves the creation of an elixir or an embryo.

What happens then? What have you gained? Did you orally taken the elixir?

Edited September 1 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

Interesting, I just found this info on taichitao.tv:"When we are able to reach our Te, we are able to slip through the doorway of birth and death, and transcend the human dimension. We can reach the “backbone” energy of the universe, which is pure Tao."

It seems like he used the same analogy with candle I used here in re to De.  

[Shadow_self]

4 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

What happens then? What have you gained? Did you orally taken the elixir?

 

 

 

Go have a read of that. The lesser reverted elixir is discussed in it. Should answer some questions

 

Apologies, but willingness to explain things to you, and others of a similar disposition is quite low at the moment.

 

So this will save you and I several pages of dialogue 

 

 

Edited September 1 by Shadow_self

[ChiDragon]

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

My criticism on it is .... you should have shut the windows .... or at least turned the stereo down 

 

( that music was terrible ) 

Thank for your humbleness and honesty.

[ChiDragon]

19 hours ago, dwai said:

That sounds like a self-defeating mental game to me. How much Neidan does one need to know to learn and perform a Sabre-form? I contend that it is zero.

 

Would you like to help us understand how it reveals what and how much they know about Neidan? 

Yes, you are right. Perform a Sabre form is not how much does one need to know to learn Neidan. Rather it was the result from the practice of Neidan in conditioning a healthy body to do the performance. Neidan was accomplished through the practice of abdominal breathing. Hence, proper breathing will help the body to maintain its energy level for the continuous performance without getting fatigue!

Edited September 1 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

16 hours ago, dwai said:

this guy is doing a more intense workout without any Qigong/neigong involved

While I’m not disputing that Sabre forms are not taxing, it is not demonstrative of Neidan/neigong either. 

Sure, breath work is involved, conditioning is involved, but it’s not Neidan. 

That is right he is doing a more intense workout. He is not practicing Qigong/neigong . Of course, it is not demonstrative of Neidan/Neigong. It is demonstrating the result of the final product of the practice of some kind. That which gives the ability for the body to perform.

Edited September 1 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

On 8/31/2024 at 5:02 PM, dwai said:

If you are conditioning muscles in Taijiquan then you are doing it wrong I’m afraid. But there’s nothing wrong with conditioning the muscles - I lift weights, do cardio, etc. But Taijiquan is the opposite of that - it is about releasing, letting go of muscular strength and developing internal power. One can do both, but not at the same time. 

If I am doing it wrong in conditioning muscles with Taijiquan, if that is the case, I shall quit Taijiquan after forty years of practice. FYI Taiji is considered as an internal practice to build up internal strength of the muscles. It doesn't display the extrusion contour of the muscles as in weight lifting. Weight lifting was considered as an external practice.

"it is about releasing, letting go of muscular strength and developing internal power. "
You got this in reverse. Taijiquan develops the internal power of the muscles then it can be released in magnitude by the control of the mind as one wish.

The distinction between Neigong(內功) and Waigong(外功) are by the methods of internal and external practice.

Edited September 3 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

14 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Using a lethal weapon to train and demonstrate Neidan is highly questionable.   When one trains in weapon, every move has an intention to puncture, cut, knock, slice and spill blood, damage human flesh

Probably he fights demons and agents Smith

[dwai]

13 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

"it is about releasing, letting go of muscular strength and developing internal power. "
You got this in reverse. Taijiquan develops the internal power of the muscles then it can be released in magnitude by the control of the mind as one wish.

Maybe it is a terminology thing. Did you learn Taijiquan from a teacher? 
 

The way I have been taught (and can validate from my own experience) is that muscular strength (li) blocks the flow of qi and generation of jin. In fact we use hardly any muscular strength to apply taiji power (if we’re bouncing someone, it feels like they weigh 1 lb instead of 150 lbs, for example). 
 Anyway this is a discussion done ad nauseum here on TDB. 

[ChiDragon]

9 minutes ago, dwai said:

Maybe it is a terminology thing. Did you learn Taijiquan from a teacher? 
 

The way I have been taught (and can validate from my own experience) is that muscular strength (li) blocks the flow of qi and generation of jin. In fact we use hardly any muscular strength to apply taiji power (if we’re bouncing someone, it feels like they weigh 1 lb instead of 150 lbs, for example). 
 Anyway this is a discussion done ad nauseum here on TDB. 

Yes, I learned Taijiquan from Marry Chu, a master of the Yang Style Taiji.

"if we’re bouncing someone, it feels like they weigh 1 lb instead of 150 lbs,"
I don't think you have realized that was the internal strength you have developed from the practice of Taijiquan.

 

BTW The internal strength developed from Taiji is called Jin(勁)

Edited September 1 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

15 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

master of the Yang Style Taiji.

Yang style is simplified version of Taiji, so no neidan in it. Read about the history of it - how and why it was developed. 

[Antares]

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Go have a read of that. The lesser reverted elixir is discussed in it. Should answer some questions

Do you have any experience of training in this lineage? I remember may be 10 years ago they held a seminar and wanted approx-ly 5000 $ for 7 days retreat. May be it was very advanced training but... I doubt it.  

Edited September 1 by Antares

[ChiDragon]

11 minutes ago, Antares said:

Yang style is simplified version of Taiji, so no neidan in it. Read about the history of it - how and why it was developed. 

Who said Taiji is neidan? Taiji and neidan are practiced differently, but both do involved with abdominal breathing. What I am trying to people was abdominal breathing is the key to all martial arts.

FYI Any style of Taiji has the same effect on the body. It is not the style that counts, rather it is how much time and effort one puts into for the diligent practice to condition the body.

I know what Neidan is all about, would you like to hear the Chinese version of it?

Edited September 1 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

8 minutes ago, Antares said:

Do you have any experience of training in this lineage? I remember may be 10 years ago they held a seminar and wanted approx-ly 5000 $ for 7 days retreat. May be it was very advanced training but... I doubt it.  

If one thinks that Neidan can just learnt from a seminar, then, it's better to say good bye to your money.

Edited September 1 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

If one thinks that Neidan can just learnt from a seminar, then it's better to say good bye to your money.

Agree. I dont remember that there were any other seminars in this lineage or any sort of meetings for further training. 

[dwai]

42 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, I learned Taijiquan from Marry Chu, a master of the Yang Style Taiji.

Nice. Never heard of her, but I’m sure she is amazing. 

42 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

"if we’re bouncing someone, it feels like they weigh 1 lb instead of 150 lbs,"
I don't think you have realized that was the internal strength you have developed from the practice of Taijiquan.

Er, that’s what I was saying - it is Jin, not muscular strength. 

42 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

BTW The internal strength developed from Taiji is called Jin(勁)

Yes, and Jin has nothing to do with muscular strength or conditioning etc. 

[ChiDragon]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

Er, that’s what I was saying - it is Jin, not muscular strength. 

Yes, and Jin has nothing to do with muscular strength or conditioning etc. 

If that is what you believe, it is fine. According to my native source, that is what it is all about. Peace!

[johndoe2012]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

Yang style is simplified version of Taiji, so no neidan in it. Read about the history of it - how and why it was developed. 

 

Whether it will lead to some sort of neidan-ish results I don't know but Yang Taiji follows the Taiji principles and if you read this book 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Juice-Radical-Energetics-Scott-Meredith/dp/1478260696/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=X59H7SRGGGIG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.H7odmSS6lk4gkAi8vYk36Tm-OqeW5J4vmBhJxzDm0HZs9YviF7axeNAbQkb9jQS9_hYExt-oJ3vFKgLUbBT0TJ8H_b5-tmOmo_-mtclK4b3YhrSGGD31c7PgmEyps2SHyEnDY67AHPvFOZyxdr7p87GiGnnSUaleL6Wq9kUQ9TMAN5pD11K5VkQEbe-cYLrZtpPMUXnOworwaB8CJqBexQ.YVJgpZswxfA0TlHmj670VsMOp2K3CSusGG4w-zIuRrk&dib_tag=se&keywords=Scott+meredith&qid=1725218000&sprefix=scott+meredith%2Caps%2C678&sr=8-2

 

The energetics will come alive sooner rather than later. 

[dwai]

50 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

If that is what you believe, it is fine. According to my native source, that is what it is all about. Peace!

Peace ☮️ 

[Antares]

1 hour ago, johndoe2012 said:

Yang Taiji follows the Taiji principles 

Yes, but is there Heaven and Earth work in it? Does it build LDT? Which Yang form does it? 

[johndoe2012]

16 hours ago, Antares said:

Yes, but is there Heaven and Earth work in it? Does it build LDT? Which Yang form does it? 

 

Short or Long form, doesn't matter as long as Taiji principles are followed, the result is the same. 

 

As for the first two questions maybe dwai is more experienced and can answer those. 

[Shadow_self]

22 hours ago, Antares said:

Do you have any experience of training in this lineage? I remember may be 10 years ago they held a seminar and wanted approx-ly 5000 $ for 7 days retreat. May be it was very advanced training but... I doubt it.  

 

I have experience of Longmen Pai in general yes.

 

WLP's seminars cost so much money due to the locations and extra associated things (Translators fees) and so forth

 

Its usually around 5k for 10 days. Consider its usually a 4 or 5 star hotel all inclusive, and by the time you add up flights, translators etc I dont think its unreasonable

 

The methods are often quite advanced. He usually opens peoples channels via transmission and kicks off various other internal processes for them. A lot of what he teaches is Xinggong and sometimes Golden flower work nowadays

 

Downside here being if you dont have a good foundation already, itll probably just be a nice experience and a lightshow, you wont have the development to internalize the extra energetic boost and bolster things to make them truly transformative

 

But those who do have them things in place, do

[Shadow_self]

21 hours ago, dwai said:

Nice. Never heard of her, but I’m sure she is amazing. 

 

Either he's misrepresenting her, or shes not so amazing.

 

I cant tell

 

Quote

Er, that’s what I was saying - it is Jin, not muscular strength. 

 

100%

 

Quote

Yes, and Jin has nothing to do with muscular strength or conditioning etc. 

 

100%

 

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

If that is what you believe, it is fine. According to my native source, that is what it is all about. Peace!

 

Sorry Chidragon, that kind of logic doesnt work here. We have objective ways of testing for Jin

 

Its call Fa Jin

 

 

If you cant Fa Jin, you;ve never experienced this, or at the least understand this,  you really do not know what you are talking about, and would be well advised to listen to @dwai

 

This has nothing whatsoever to do with muscular strength

 

 

Edited September 2 by Shadow_self

[ChiDragon]

As I had said, one's word reveals only how much one knows!