ChiDragon Posted September 2 39 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: If you cant Fa Jin, you;ve never experienced this, or at the least understand this, you really do not know what you are talking about, May I ask where are the Jin came from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antares Posted September 2 1 minute ago, ChiDragon said: May I ask where are the Jin came from? Let me guess...mmm... from muscles strength? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted September 2 5 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: May I ask where are the Jin came from? Im pretty sure I already told you. Me explaining things to you is now off the table. Theres about 4 such people on this site who fall under that category. You all share a near identical disposition Until it changes, Im unwilling to be helpful im afraid Not because I dont want to,. It is simply because I know that the time and energy is better spent on people who it will benefit from it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 2 11 minutes ago, Antares said: Let me guess...mmm... from muscles strength? You guessed right! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 2 3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Im pretty sure I already told you. Me explaining things to you is now off the table. This seems very logical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted September 2 1 minute ago, ChiDragon said: This seems very logical. Yes, understanding people who are struggling to get past their own disposition was a career of mine in the past as you know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 2 1 minute ago, Shadow_self said: Yes, understanding people who are struggling to get past their own disposition was a career of mine in the past as you know Yes, indeed! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted September 2 8 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: You guessed right! Interestingly, I've been "fajined" by at least two people. One felt very physical, both to me and the person performing it. It felt like the person was using leverage and muscular elasticity to "snap" me back into the wall. Earl Grey posted a video some years ago and it was just like that. This person learned it outside of Dwai's school. The other felt very energetic, again to both giver and receiver. This one felt like a ball expanding and propelling me up and back into the air (the technique was press, which I thought was a BS move). I do think there is a muscular/physical leverage type of fajin, but there is also something completely different. This person was within Dwai's school. I imagine that a well developed practitioner would be able to do both, but it is theoretical to me since I've not really developed much in CIMA past some basic body connecting/leverage using. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 2 11 minutes ago, forestofclarity said: I imagine that a well developed practitioner would be able to do both, but it is theoretical to me since I've not really developed much in CIMA past some basic body connecting/leverage using. It seems you are interested in fajin with enthusiasm. Let's not spam the OP here. I will forward your valuable comments to a new thread and go from there. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Giles Posted September 2 52 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Im pretty sure I already told you. Me explaining things to you is now off the table. Theres about 4 such people on this site who fall under that category. You all share a near identical disposition Until it changes, Im unwilling to be helpful im afraid Not because I dont want to,. It is simply because I know that the time and energy is better spent on people who it will benefit from it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted September 2 (edited) I can fajin myself. Edited September 2 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 2 34 minutes ago, Cobie said: I can fajin myself. Nice try, Cobie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 2 5 hours ago, forestofclarity said: Interestingly, I've been "fajined" by at least two people. One felt very physical, both to me and the person performing it. It felt like the person was using leverage and muscular elasticity to "snap" me back into the wall. Earl Grey posted a video some years ago and it was just like that. This person learned it outside of Dwai's school. The other felt very energetic, again to both giver and receiver. This one felt like a ball expanding and propelling me up and back into the air (the technique was press, which I thought was a BS move). I do think there is a muscular/physical leverage type of fajin, but there is also something completely different. This person was within Dwai's school. sometimes it can be representative of the skill of the individual too. There are plenty of taijiquan people who do the physical/muscular fajin. But that’s not demonstrative of the real Jin, imho/ime. It is true that most start from physical (and I say most because there might be exceptionally skilled people who understand the subtleties of release quickly). If it is a genuine internal taiji system they will progress to the subtle internal power. Of course there are so many who’ve been practicing for decades with no idea how to do this (and many have given up too). These people become vehement and belligerent skeptics (the FB group called “Fajin project” has many such worthies). And once one gets through the gate of real internal power, the spiritual aspects of Taijiquan become available). 5 hours ago, forestofclarity said: I imagine that a well developed practitioner would be able to do both, but it is theoretical to me since I've not really developed much in CIMA past some basic body connecting/leverage using. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted September 2 (edited) 31 minutes ago, dwai said: sometimes it can be representative of the skill of the individual too. There are plenty of taijiquan people who do the physical/muscular fajin. But that’s not demonstrative of the real Jin, imho/ime. It is true that most start from physical (and I say most because there might be exceptionally skilled people who understand the subtleties of release quickly). If it is a genuine internal taiji system they will progress to the subtle internal power. Of course there are so many who’ve been practicing for decades with no idea how to do this (and many have given up too). These people become vehement and belligerent skeptics (the FB group called “Fajin project” has many such worthies). And once one gets through the gate of real internal power, the spiritual aspects of Taijiquan become available). Though he isnt my teacher, I always think Mark Rasmus is a fine example of someone who can demonstrate some of the more subtle aspets of Taiji His youtube is more valuable than some of the teachers I know charging extortionate amounts Edited September 2 by Shadow_self 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 3 39 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Though he isnt my teacher, I always think Mark Rasmus is a fine example of someone who can demonstrate some of the more subtle aspets of Taiji His youtube is more valuable than some of the teachers I know charging extortionate amounts Yes, Mark Rasmus is legit. I find this teacher is showing some good skills (advanced, yang style) - 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 3 On 9/1/2024 at 11:21 AM, dwai said: Nice. Never heard of her, but I’m sure she is amazing. FYI Terry Dunn had met Marry Chu before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 3 1 hour ago, dwai said: If it is a genuine internal taiji system they will progress to the subtle internal power. Of course there are so many who’ve been practicing for decades with no idea how to do this (and many have given up too). These people become vehement and belligerent skeptics It is because that they didn't know how to practice properly. It is not very easy for people to grasp the subtlety of Taiji. The internal power will not be developed just by performing the movements. There is a lot more to it than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 3 37 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: FYI Terry Dunn had met Marry Chu before. I don’t know Terry Dunn either. Anyway, is was not my intention to question Mary Chu’s credentials - like I said, I’m sure she is amazing. Quote It is because that they didn't know how to practice properly. It is not very easy for people to grasp the subtlety of Taiji. The internal power will not be developed just by performing the movements. There is a lot more to it than that. Agreed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted September 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChiDragon said: It is because that they didn't know how to practice properly. It is not very easy for people to grasp the subtlety of Taiji. The internal power will not be developed just by performing the movements. There is a lot more to it than that. Based on your statements about muscular force, Im wondering if you understand the issue with that position and the subtlties of taiji The work isnt done with the muscles. If you look at the image below of the chicken breast Its done with that stuff that looks like clingfilm (or saran wrap for americans) Edited September 3 by Shadow_self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted September 3 3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Based on your videos and statements about muscular force, I have my doubts you grasp it either Normally, I don't like to do this. So, please don't bother to respond, you are on the ignore list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted September 3 2 hours ago, dwai said: These people become vehement and belligerent skeptics (the FB group called “Fajin project” has many such worthies). Personally, I don't blame them. I tend to be skeptical and usually my skepticism is not disappointed. Also, there tends to be a lot of fraud, gullibility, truth stretching, money grabbing, etc. which is fairly rampant in this realm (a lot of demos, for example, seem to purposely confuse the use of leverage with the use of internal power). If I hadn't experienced it myself, in an impromptu situations, I wouldn't have believed it either. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted September 3 (edited) 39 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: Normally, I don't like to do this. So, please don't bother to respond, you are on the ignore list. My responses are not for you, so I think its ok to do so Edited September 3 by Shadow_self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 3 7 minutes ago, forestofclarity said: Personally, I don't blame them. I tend to be skeptical and usually my skepticism is not disappointed. Also, there tends to be a lot of fraud, gullibility, truth stretching, money grabbing, etc. which is fairly rampant in this realm (a lot of demos, for example, seem to purposely confuse the use of leverage with the use of internal power). If I hadn't experienced it myself, in an impromptu situations, I wouldn't have believed it either. I don't disagree with you on this. When I went to my teacher for the first time, I was unsure what to expect when he asked me, "do you want to be bounced?" He stood with his heels hanging over a flight of stairs leading down into his basement. Using his two index fingers, he launched me airborne and back several feet into his front door. All my brain registered was a light touch on my chest and then the thud as I hit the door—there was no sense of time having elapsed. He was probably 64 then, and I was 40, outweighing him by 80 lbs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted September 3 6 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: You posted that stuff on here and invited criticism. You literally asked for it Let me be clear, My posts to you are not for you. They for the others, to try to help them to not make mistakes. Let us not get personal @Shadow_self - it is okay for people to have differing opinions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted September 3 11 minutes ago, dwai said: Let us not get personal @Shadow_self - it is okay for people to have differing opinions. I dont mean to be, so my apologies. Ive edited the post and hope it better reflects what Im trying to say (its an issue with the positon not the person) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
