The ultimate goal of Neidan

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

This is excerpt from the book of WLP Patriarch The Teacher of Single Yang

 

 

Does this person have a name? 

 

2 hours ago, Antares said:

 

, but you are right in re to translation. I mean translation from Chinese was ok but somebody from Russian WLP branch made bad translation into English years ago so I left it as it is. Most important thing here is the idea behind it. 

 

What does this all have to do with Damo? Ive already mentioned, he teaches the alchemical MCO

 

I understand what you are talking about

[dwai]

22 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Any useful texts on that subject?

I personally have not found much from the daoist sektion that goes into actually explaining stuff. Compared to buddhist texts, daoist ones tend to focus on wrapping everything in terminology, seldom cutting to the chase. 

Or, when finally getting anywhere, talking about basic energetics. 

I, too, find some Daoist schools' penchant for terminology overload tedious. A lot of what they try to explain by breaking it down into smaller parts is a side effect of not understanding/accepting the primary purpose of Dao practice—returning (to the source), realizing our True Nature, and letting go - the path of nivritti (return).

 

There was a time when I loved these elaborate explanations of dissecting phenomena, acquiring methods and techniques, and chasing after results (powers). Nowadays, I like the simplicity of the DDJ and the Neiyeh much more - and I can't find differences between what is being expressed therein and what has been expressed through the "pointings" in Advaita Vedanta, Kashmiri Shaivism, or, for that matter, in Vajrayana Buddhism (though this is an area I haven't studied as much as the others I mentioned). 

[Chang dao ling]

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

already mentioned, he teaches the alchemical MCO

They need to read white moon on the mountain peak. 

[Forestgreen]

46 minutes ago, dwai said:

Kashmiri Shaivism

Today, I find this to be slightly to idealistic for my taste, having ended up in the classic buddhist middle point, in this case between idealism and realism. 

[Chang dao ling]

1 minute ago, Forestgreen said:

Today, I find this to be slightly to idealistic for my taste, having ended up in the classic buddhist middle point, in this case between idealism and realism. 

Have you heard about dhammakya meditation from Thailand? They say this is the original meditation method buddha achieved enlightenment 

[Forestgreen]

8 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Well things are  unusually linear from where I sit, but, theres always room for something to change

 

Speaking of practice

 

Heres one of the practices said individual espouses and indeed recommended to another member on here

 

https://www.globalqiproject.com/eight-extraordinary-meridians-training-program/

 

 

@Forestgreen, im curious. 

 

Where do you think something like that would lead one exactly??

 

 

That looks like a version of the fusion practice from Mantak Chia, also used by JAJ so it is probably a traditional and widespread daoist practice.  

In the late 90-ties, it gave me mental strain, that's about it. 

 

In my view, this is an artificial reconstruction of a process that should occur naturally if onedoesotherstuff correctly, with a focus on what the WuZhenPian tradition calls postheaven energetic dregs instead of doing the primary purpose of the method which is directed at the mind, and seing reality. 

 

But I am sure that someone finds the method useful. We are after all different,  with different needs and aspirations.

 

 

[Forestgreen]

10 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Have you heard about dhammakya meditation from Thailand? They say this is the original meditation method buddha achieved enlightenment 

I have read the critique...

[Antares]

12 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

What does this all have to do with Damo? Ive already mentioned, he teaches the alchemical MCO

He states that he does it but in fact... as an example

He talks a lot about how to use breath and post heaven Wu-Xing (metal - lungs for example) and from what I can see he teaches qigong with some elements of neigong plus seated meditations. I would not say it is harmful but it is very questionable how he is getting True Water and True Fire to activate the alchemical MCO. May be there is smth he does not teach openly but I can't see anything from real neigong/neidan in what he teaches in his books or youtube videos. 

[Taoist Texts]

13 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

If I recall there was a raft of neidan phenomena that I tried discussing with you, only to realize you werent willing to get into it

Are we ready to talk about the physiological changes from the "empty room makes white" yet my friend?

i am always willing to discuss real neidan, i am a regular chatty fella, witnessed by my post count, unfortunately this particular topic whereas the guy emits visible light...

17 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Sounds like some made up imaginary nonsense

 

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

He states that he does it but in fact... as an example

He talks a lot about how to use breath and post heaven Wu-Xing (metal - lungs for example) and from what I can see he teaches qigong with some elements of neigong plus seated meditations. I would not say it is harmful but it is very questionable how he is getting True Water and True Fire to activate the alchemical MCO. May be there is smth he does not teach openly but I can't see anything from real neigong/neidan in what he teaches in his books or youtube videos. 

 

You may wish to read what I posted earlier about public information. The point stands

 

I've already spoken about how im unwilling to talk about things related to the MCO on the forum

 

You are welcome to send me a PM if you like

 

 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

i am always willing to discuss real neidan, i am a regular chatty fella, witnessed by my post count, unfortunately this particular topic whereas the guy emits visible light...

 

Oh no, thats a different thing (The Strike of Ling and Beyond)

 

Although, just so we are clear (posting the simple summary for non science folk, but the article also linked

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2009/jul/17/human-bioluminescence

 

Quote

Their results show that the amount of light emitted follows a 24-hour cycle, at its highest in late afternoon and lowest late at night, and that the brightest light is emitted from the cheeks, forehead and neck.

Strangely, the areas that produced the brightest light did not correspond with the brightest areas on thermal images of the volunteers' bodies.

The light is a thousand times weaker than the human eye can perceive. At such a low level, it is unlikely to serve any evolutionary purpose in humans – though when emitted more strongly by animals such as fireflies, glow-worms and deep-sea fish, it can be used to attract mates and for illumination.

Bioluminescence is a side-effect of metabolic reactions within all creatures, the result of highly reactive free radicals produced through cell respiration interacting with free-floating lipids and proteins. The "excited" molecules that result can react with chemicals called fluorophores to emit photons.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2707605/

 

So well,  humans emitting light is not made up at all. Its actually a fact.

 

Common sense would tell you, a supposed practitioner that qigong, neigong, neidan, and other forms of alchemy all have different levels of efficacy

 

In true systems, the body is taken beyond well beyond its "normal" capacity. Indeed the metabolic system goes through transformations at the cellular level even

 

You just havent encountered anyone whos developed this im afraid. So that process is not within your domain of experience, and thats totally fine.

 

Now getting back to the other matter

 

The  "empty room makes white" or whatever term you want to use, thats another thing that comes with its own set of changes

 

So, im ready to hear all about it  Tell me about the changes that occur physiologically, please  

[Shadow_self]

8 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

Have you heard about dhammakya meditation from Thailand? They say this is the original meditation method buddha achieved enlightenment 

 

It isnt. Its a modern misrepresentation of one method from  the original system that the buddha used though.

 

The orginal practices were tantric/alchemical, similar to neidan, with some other stuff too

Edited September 6 by Shadow_self

[johndoe2012]

51 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

The orginal practices were tantric/alchemical, similar to neidan, with some other stuff too

 

What is your source for that? 

[Shadow_self]

5 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

What is your source for that? 

 

One thats not suited for discussion on a public forum im afraid  

 

Though i would be obliged to tell you, if you are looking for "scholarly" or "orthodox" sources discussing these things to the depth im talking about. You'll be searching for a very, very long time, and at best come up with fragments

 

Mahayana/Theravada/Vajrayana all have these methods, they just are not public.

 

They are quite dangerous, and often echo the "Ming" practices you hear mentioned in alchemical daoism

 

In my opinion certain practies are even more dangerous that the Daoist variants, because some of the earlier ones work faster, thus the potential for error is greater

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

The  "empty room makes white" or whatever term you want to use, thats another thing that comes with its own set of changes

So, im ready to hear all about it  Tell me about the changes that occur physiologically, please  

sorry no can do. top secret. need to know.

 

Edited September 6 by Taoist Texts

[Forestgreen]

1 hour ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

What is your source for that? 

You can find some of it in the abhidhamma texts, if you know what to look for. 

And quite explicit in some of the tibetan texts, although these might be more recent than the "original teachings" whatever they might be.

[Shadow_self]

11 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sorry no can do. top secret. need to know.

 

 

Really? I'm disappointed TT

 

Aside from your witty remarks (which I enjoy) this is becoming another go to move of yours

 

Its a shame, here I was going on your earlier comment

 

Quote

i am always willing to discuss real neidan, i am a regular chatty fella

 

Seems to me, when asked about the things that aren't written in books, you arent nearly as chatty as you stated above

[Taoist Texts]

1 minute ago, Shadow_self said:

Seems to me, when asked about the things that aren't written in books, you arent nearly as chatty as you stated above

discussing is one thing, disclosing is another. for example here is discussion: i posit that the entire ND process is written in the books. otherwise books would be useless, obviously. who needs only the left half of the multiplication table right?

[Shadow_self]

14 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

You can find some of it in the abhidhamma texts, if you know what to look for. 

And quite explicit in some of the tibetan texts, although these might be more recent than the "original teachings" whatever they might be.

 

Hey!

 

Ontday entionmay ethay Abhidhammayay ! 

 

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, Taoist Texts said:

discussing is one thing, disclosing is another. for example here is discussion: i posit that the entire ND process is written in the books. otherwise books would be useless, obviously. who needs only the left half of the multiplication table right?

 

I never asked you to disclose a method. That would be irresponsible to be honest.

 

Do you think the transformation im talking about is a secret or something?

 

 

[Forestgreen]

8 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Hey!

 

Ontday entionmay ethay Abhidhammayay ! 

 

Sometimes you have to know the answer in order to see that it is written right before you. 

With the classic texts, it is often so.

 

[Giles]

28 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sorry no can do. top secret. need to know.

 

Just put him on ignore and move on unless of course:

 

 

❓️🤔

 

[Giles]

31 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

You can find some of it in the abhidhamma texts, if you know what to look for. 

And quite explicit in some of the tibetan texts, although these might be more recent than the "original teachings" whatever they might be.

 

Exactly.

 

Whether or not the Abhidharma texts are an accurate representation of the Buddha's original teachings is highly debatable.

 

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, Forestgreen said:

Sometimes you have to know the answer in order to see that it is written right before you. 

 

The answer is often a jagged pill people refuse to swallow

 

Orthodoxy and politics have basically buried the original teachings.

 

It not something thats unique to Buddhism, but it is the one people are in the most denial about for sure.

[Taoist Texts]

10 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Do you think the transformation im talking about is a secret or something?

i am talking about 'white born in empty room' it is a watershed event in my ND, the name is known, the details are highly secret. not sure if it is the same you talk about?