The ultimate goal of Neidan

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Forestgreen said:

Does Rudi clearly explain neidan on this forum? 

Where? 

He doesn’t. He explains neigong

[Chang dao ling]

3 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Does Rudi clearly explain neidan on this forum? 

Where? 

Check his answers to various questions 

https://www.thedaobums.com/profile/111272-小梦想/

Both neidan and neigong are same 

https://authenticneigong.com/faq

Edited September 9 by Chang dao ling

[Chang dao ling]

2 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

He doesn’t. He explains neigong

Both are same 

https://authenticneigong.com/faq

[Forestgreen]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

 

Both neidan and neigong are same

Not in my world, but if you say so.

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

Both are same 

 

They are not quite the same thing.  The mechanics and outcomes are different

 

Theres an issue here around terminology

 

The term neigong has semantic ambiguity - for example, all internal martial arts are neigong, 

 

But neigong can be a precursor to neidan also (which isnt necesssarily an internal martial art).

 

So in this case it can be about building large volumes of qi in the body, which actually, is a required component of neidan

 

The thing is, there are "neigong" methods and "neidan" methods for building qi, and they arent exactly the same.

 

The former is far more accessible, and much easier to make progress in. The latter is stubborn and requires several psychological shifts that are above and beyond things like healthy living or grinding ones way through postures etc

 

A lot of people doing neidan actually use neigong methods to build the qi, until they can get to the level to make the shift over to neidan methods

 

Many people simply cannot make that change if they havent the requisite mental work done (think xinggong) and what happens is, the building of qi actually fuels the negative traits of the mind, pulling them further away from some of the "neidan" mechanics

 

So they could still make monumentous progress in neigong.

 

Some of the teachers I know demonstrate bizarre abilities, but they may not make good progress in neidan if they can't sort their mind out

[Giles]

15 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

Hanging out here one might reasonably conclude the ultimate goal of neidan is to piss off Dao Bums!

 

Shhhhh.... 🤫🤐

 

Spoiler

It's the bigliest, bigliest, super-duperist, secretliest secret in the whole world and his daddy is the bigliest daddy in the whole entire world too.

 

It's even more super-duper secret than MoPai... 🥷

 

 

[Chang dao ling]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

A lot of people doing neidan actually use neigong methods to build the qi, until they can get to the level to make the shift over to neidan methods

Yes I agree with this . Damo made similar statement in his book. But according to Rudi both are same.

[Chang dao ling]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Some of the teachers I know demonstrate bizarre abilities, but they may not make good progress in neidan if they can't sort their mind out

Can you elaborate? 

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

Damo made similar statement in his book

 

i didnt take that from Damo. I just have access to both methods.

 

They are different

 

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

Can you elaborate? 

 

Yes.

 

Neigong doesnt require one to have their mind sorted out to a great extent, Neidan does

 

Much of the work with latter has a specific set of mental conditions that act as barriers to entry

 

Put another way , heres one example (This would be a very gross comparision, so treat it as such please)

 

Boxing  and MMA.

 

Both assume a good level of skill in combat.

 

But put a boxer into a ring with an MMA guy, and once the kicks, knees, elbows, wrestling,  takedowns and ground fighting start, the boxer will have a lot of trouble

 

 You can relate the expanded complexity to the machinations of the mind, being and other things (like morals)  that need dealing with when doing neidan, that one can, to some degree skate around when doing neigong

 

Neidan is more complex, and much harder to gain any measure of success in.

 

A foundation in neigong helps drastrically, and in my opinion, would be needed

 

Hopefully that helps

[ChiDragon]

Had anyone ever  heard of Jing, chi, and shen? It is all about neidan，内丹.

Edited September 10 by ChiDragon

[Forestgreen]

Supposedly, jing to qi to shen is going with the flow. 

 

Neidan is about reversal and inversion, going against the flow. 

[Chang dao ling]

10 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

i didnt take that from Damo. I just have access to both methods.

 

They are different

 

 

Yes.

 

Neigong doesnt require one to have their mind sorted out to a great extent, Neidan does

 

Much of the work with latter has a specific set of mental conditions that act as barriers to entry

 

Put another way , heres one example (This would be a very gross comparision, so treat it as such please)

 

Boxing  and MMA.

 

Both assume a good level of skill in combat.

 

But put a boxer into a ring with an MMA guy, and once the kicks, knees, elbows, wrestling,  takedowns and ground fighting start, the boxer will have a lot of trouble

 

 You can relate the expanded complexity to the machinations of the mind, being and other things (like morals)  that need dealing with when doing neidan, that one can, to some degree skate around when doing neigong

 

Neidan is more complex, and much harder to gain any measure of success in.

 

A foundation in neigong helps drastrically, and in my opinion, would be needed

 

Hopefully that helps

Thanks for explanation 🙂

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Supposedly, jing to qi to shen is going with the flow. 

 

Neidan is about reversal and inversion, going against the flow. 

Oh, a new invention of Neidan. It's wonderfully, so, you are saying that the post-neidan is the reversal of the pre-neidan.

[MIchael80]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Oh, a new invention of Neidan. It's wonderfully, so, you are saying that the post-neidan is the reversal of the pre-neidan.

Neidan has never worked with jing, chi, shen. Working with the 3 is preparation phase. 

Neidan works with pre-heaven(yuan) jing  chi and shen ....which is something very different.

Hope that helps 

Edited September 10 by MIchael80

[Forestgreen]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Oh, a new invention of Neidan. It's wonderfully, so, you are saying that the post-neidan is the reversal of the pre-neidan.

I believe that this show your level of understanding of the subject. 

You most likely think qigong =neidan, and that it is all about breathing. 

[ChiDragon]

11 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

I believe that this show your level of understanding of the subject. 

You most likely think qigong =neidan, and that it is all about breathing. 

Yes, breath, breathe, breathing, sink breath to the dantian. Try it, it might work for everyone. I don’t know why people are getting all kinds of definitions of neidan but the right one.

[Forestgreen]

Because people read books?

Because people seek out teachers?

[Thrice Daily]

On 26/08/2024 at 2:39 AM, Shadow_self said:

 

Im not running into al types of definitions, Im pointing out the issues with the google translate version of it, and pointing it out to you, because what you described was "aura", though the other translation with the same character "reiki" which japanese for spiritual energy is more accurate (though still not entirely accurate)

 

I know what it is, and  how to cultivate it  I was trying to ascertain whether you did

 

There was a lesson in there for you CD, im not sure you understand what it is, but Im sure you will see what I mean if you think about it for a while  

Are you sure Lingqi is Reiki. Also what sort of problems are certain with Reiki? If I can ask you. 

[Shadow_self]

1 minute ago, Thrice Daily said:

Are you sure Lingqi is Reiki. Also what sort of problems are certain with Reiki? If I can ask you. 

 

Yes I'm very sure

 

In its current form, the following are the most commonly seen things, in my opinion

 

• Serious problems with energetic pathogens being transferred and accumulated
• Seriously tax the body and organs as the energetic system is not set up to handle such a refined type of Qi

People doing it generally dont have the sensitivity to pick up on it, and by the time they do, its often too late

[ChiDragon]

5 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Are you sure Lingqi is Reiki. Also what sort of problems are certain with Reiki? If I can ask you. 

The characters are the same 靈氣, but it has a different meaning completely between the Chinese and Japanese culture.

[Thrice Daily]

Thanks Chi Dragon. I'm interested if people have problems with Reiki,is there much on this forum about it. I should have a look. This is such a great forum still by the way. It's excellent to see many members are still going strong from years back. Trunk, Joe Blast, yourself, More power to you

[ChiDragon]

13 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

I'm interested if people have problems with Reiki,is there much on this forum about it

靈氣 is the term that Japanese used for the medical qigong which is equivalent the Chinese term 醫療氣功(medical qigong).

I don't know where people getting the idea that it has problems.

 

BTW Thank you for the kind words!

Edited September 10 by ChiDragon

[Shadow_self]

33 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

I'm interested if people have problems with Reiki

 

Plenty of people do, its a rather large topic in the IMA scene

 

Of course if you keep asking Chidragon, you'll most likely end up running into the same constant confusion and errors he seems to with many of these things.

 

But if you wish to understand it, heres someone who knows what they are talking about,

 

 

You'll probably be able to understand why its such an issue after watching this

[Chang dao ling]

6 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Plenty of people do, its a rather large topic in the IMA scene

 

Of course if you keep asking Chidragon, you'll most likely end up running into the same constant confusion and errors he seems to with many of these things.

 

But if you wish to understand it, heres someone who knows what they are talking about,

 

 

You'll probably be able to understand why its such an issue after watching this

Very interesting and informative thanks 👍 

[Forestgreen]

@dwai seems like the reiki thread got grafted onto this one.

 

With regards 

 

T