Enlightenment - what is it?

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

So, in my understanding englightentment is something you can not achieve, any more then you can achieve a foot: you allready have it. It is the realisastion of oneness.

 

In general, I think trying to put words to it only mudders the water. Still, I am curious, what does the term entail to you?

Edited July 15 by NaturaNaturans
Clarrified title

[Nungali]

To understand something in a process that also seems to  give some type of internalized 'light'  and changes the previous 'mind-set' .

[stirling]

Enlightenment is the realization that what seems like a world of separate things, people, places and moments is really a unity, or wholeness and always has been. Amongst the many implications of this realization are that the separateness of a "self", the existence of a future or past, and the idea that there is any other place but here are all delusions. 

[Cobie]

Enlightenment, it’s literal, the light shines.

 

 

Edited July 17 by Cobie

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

What term does east asians use for the concept?

[Daniel]

Related topic, @NaturaNaturans

 

 

[Cobie]

4 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

What term does east asians use for the concept?

Classical

忢 / 悟 wu4 - self + heart

[吾 wu2 - first person pronoun / to defend ; 忄/ 心 xin1 - heart]

 

Modern

覺悟 jue2 wu4 - consciousness / awareness / Buddhist enlightenment (Sanskrit: cittotpāda)
https://dictionary.writtenchinese.com/worddetail/wu/13755/1/2   

[覺 jue2 - (Budd.) enlightenment; 見 jian4 - see]

 

 

Edited July 16 by Cobie

[Tommy]

From what I have gathered, and correct me if I am wrong or even if I am off by a mm, enlightenment is something that we already have but not experienced. Like your foot, you have it but may be you have not used it. Such is the enlightenment some seek. Others believe that enlightenment is a realization of the unity of the universe rather than the way we see things now as separate pieces. The realization that we are all one. And there is still some who believe this is life is all an illusion. This viewpoint comes from the belief that life is not permanent. And if it does not last then how can it be real? All of these things and not one of these things is enlightenment. One may have an appendix but may never use it? Or experience it. Realization is this self learning a truth about itself and/or others. And the idea that this is an illusion comes from the point of view that this life is not permanent thus not real. Not real like what is Buddha nature real. 

 

So what really is enlightenment, it is the experience which this self can not experience or feel. Some call it stream entry. I do not know what it is. But, I think it is akin to shadows dancing on a cave wall. There is a light source but know not where from. And then the shadows are not substance but lack of light that is used for perception. All the motions are predicted by lines holding the shapes of the shadows. So, enlightenment, what is it.  Not an it and not a person. For some a wish and others a goal. For me it is the mark of the end of a journey. The journey is fun but it is only when we stop along the way do we learn about where we are and where we go. Happy holidays.

Edited July 17 by Tommy

[Cobie]

When one has the experience, one knows. The light shines. 

 

When one hasn’t experienced it, one doesn’t know.

Unfortunately then people tend to start theorising about it,

that stops the process towards enlightenment.  

 

Edited July 17 by Cobie

[Maddie]

Enlightenment or obtaining Nirvana is a technical term in Buddhism. It is when one has seen through all delusion and let go of all unskillful attachments and obtained perfect peace. 

[blue eyed snake]

redundant

 

Edited July 17 by blue eyed snake

[Cobie]

redundant

 

 

Edited July 17 by Cobie

[stirling]

Here is a question one can ask about how enlightenment presents: What shift in how reality is understood and seen moment to moment that lasts months, years, decades, is now and always available to be apprehended any time the phenomenal world is looked at? 

 

In answering that question, is what is being described below is entirely clear, familiar, and real to you in this moment? All of these statements are referring to precisely the same thing.

 

Quote

Empty yourself of everything.
Let the mind rest at peace.
The ten thousand things rise and fall while the Self watches their return.
They grow and flourish and then return to the source.
Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature.
The way of nature is unchanging.
Knowing constancy is insight.
Not knowing constancy leads to disaster.
Knowing constancy, the mind is open.
With an open mind, you will be openhearted.
Being openhearted, you will act royally.
Being royal, you will attain the divine.
Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao.
Being at one with the Tao is eternal.
And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away.

- Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 16

 

Quote

Isa-Upanishad

 

I

 

All this, whatsoever exists in the universe, should be covered by

the Lord. Having renounced (the unreal), enjoy (the Real). Do

not covet the wealth of any man.

 

We cover all things with the Lord by perceiving the Divine Presence

everywhere. When the consciousness is firmly fixed in God, the conception of

diversity naturally drops away; because the One Cosmic Existence shines

through all things. As we gain the light of wisdom, we cease to cling to the

unrealities of this world and we find all our joy in the realm of Reality.

 

The word "enjoy" is also interpreted by the great commentator Sankaracharya as

"protect," because knowledge of our true Self is the greatest protector and

sustainer. If we do not have this knowledge, we cannot be happy; because

nothing on this external plane of phenomena is permanent or dependable. He

who is rich in the knowledge of the Self does not covet external power or

possession.

 

Quote

"Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.
"When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering." - Buddha, Bahiya Sutta

 

Quote

 

Sariputra,

form is no different to emptiness,

emptiness no different to form.

That which is form is emptiness,

that which is emptiness, form.

 

Sensations, perceptions, impressions, and consciousness

are also like this.

 

Sariputra,

all things and phenomena are marked by emptiness; they are neither appearing nor disappearing,

neither impure nor pure,

neither increasing nor decreasing.

 

Therefore, in emptiness,

no forms, no sensations, perceptions, impressions, or

consciousness;

no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, mind;

no sights, sounds, odors, tastes, objects of touch, objects of

mind;

no realm of sight and so on up to no realm of consciousness;

no ignorance and no end of ignorance,

and so on up to no aging and death,

and no end of aging and death;

no suffering, accumulation, cessation, or path;

no wisdom and no attainment.

 

With nothing to attain,

bodhisattvas

rely on prajna-paramita,

and their minds are without hindrance.

 

They are without hindrance,

and therefore without fear.

Far apart from all confused dreams,

they dwell in nirvana. - Buddha, Heart Sutra

 

 

Quote

At the moment of inner enlightenment,
there is a going beyond appearance and emptiness.
The changes that appear to occur in the empty world
we call real only because of our ignorance.

- From "Verses on the Faith Mind"
by Chien-chih Seng-ts'an, 
Third Zen Patriarch 

 

Edited July 17 by stirling

[Daniel]

34 minutes ago, stirling said:

What shift in how reality is understood and seen moment to moment that lasts months, years, decades, is now and always available to be apprehended any time the phenomenal world is looked at? 

 

An epiphany?

[Daniel]

18 hours ago, Maddie said:

Enlightenment or obtaining Nirvana is a technical term in Buddhism. It is when one has seen through all delusion and let go of all unskillful attachments and obtained perfect peace. 

 

May we all be blessed in this way, speedily and in my days.  Amein.

[forestofclarity]

The Buddha said that enlightenment is the end of suffering. Most other ways to describe it are an invitation to create various idols. 

 

In Chan/Zen, it is often said to be attaining or seeing the Dao or seeing xing (見性) and becoming a Buddha. In this way, there may or may not be a difference between an initial flash and a full flowering, depending on who you ask. 

Edited July 17 by forestofemptiness

[old3bob]

um, if something can be obtained then it can also be lost...btw who is this one that sees.....

[forestofclarity]

14 minutes ago, old3bob said:

um, if something can be obtained then it can also be lost...btw who is this one that sees.....

 

As noted: 

 

16 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Most other ways to describe it are an invitation to create various idols. 

 

[Cobie]

34 minutes ago, Daniel said:

… Amein.

 

 Googling ‘amein vs amen’:

ʾĀmīn (Arabic: آمين) is the Arabic form of Amen. In Islam, it is used with the same meaning as in Judaism and Christianity. 
 

 

Edited July 17 by Cobie

[Daniel]

24 minutes ago, old3bob said:

um, if something can be obtained then it can also be lost...btw who is this one that sees.....

 

The quote feature?  Why don't you use it?  It is very difficult for me to decipher what you mean here without context.  I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

[Daniel]

22 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

 Googling ‘amein vs amen’:

ʾĀmīn (Arabic: آمين) is the Arabic form of Amen. In Islam, it is used with the same meaning as in Judaism and Christianity. 
 

 

 

Amein is the ... forgive me, more correct pronunciation in Hebrew.  Long "A" sound.  Awh-mayhn.

 

ETA:  Numbers 5 is the best example:  In a spoiler.  Not the most pleasant verse.  But it's still the best example.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

The middle letter.  The one that looks kind of like a tea-kettle, pouring down-ward?  That's the "mem", like "mayim", which means: "water".  The two dots under, are the vowel sound, "long A".  They represent a relationship. Amen is different.  Pronounced with the 'eh' sound is different.  That's more like Ezra.  Totally different... mood.  Speaking only for myself, I can't say it without the long A sound anymore.  It feels weird to me.

 

Edited July 17 by Daniel

[Master Logray]

I view Enlightenment is more a peep into the back end process of life/universe.   From the viewpoint of a cultivator,  haphazard Enlightenment is not so useful as anyone can believe in it, without actually experience it.  It is same as belief systems or religions - believe.  And in modern days we can mimic Enlightenment by drugs, electrical stimulation, hypnosis or VR. 

 

The important point is whether a person can reach a state of Enlightenment regularly and consistently, thereby able to explore, obtain insight, experiences and energies, or communicate with different beings.  This is why cultivation is absolutely necessary, not a one-off glimpse to the other side.

 

I am saying this because I read a survey on the winners of big lotteries in the USA.  Most of them are actually worse off after a period of time when they use up all their wealth.  It is those who already have money management skills and habits that actually maintain their wealth. 

[old3bob]

56 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

The quote feature?  Why don't you use it?  It is very difficult for me to decipher what you mean here without context.  I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

 

tough cookies....

[dwai]

Enlightenment is the realization that YOU are THAT (existence, consciousness, completeness). You have *never not been that*. 

Moreover, the entire world of diversity is nothing apart from your Self. 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

3 hours ago, stirling said:

Isa-Upanishad

Possibly the greatest spiritual text ive read. So short as well. 10/10.
 

For me, this is the verse that captures it best, IMO:

Quote

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the
birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will
precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you
come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you
who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in
poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Qoute @Tommy

Quote

 And there is still some who believe this is life is all an illusion. This viewpoint comes from the belief that life is not permanent. And if it does not last then how can it be real?

 

I belive life is an illusjon, but not for the same reason. I belive coinciousness is eternal, and that the material is a construct of the mental. But sure, this is just my personal belief.