Heart chakra opening

[Rheor]

Hello,

I have been meditating a lot for two years, I reduced off from 8 hours daily to 2/3 hours over the course of two months in order to focus on my life, be more independent and less dissociated. During this time I believe, I cleared out a lot of "stuff" from my energy system.

 

I feel most of my energy working around the heart chakra, like a "lock" in the center of my chest. My chest feels "full" with heat and pain accumulating in the heart, some head pressure aswell along with some level of mental fog. I have felt lots of clearing out of the chest with what felt like (and continues to feel like) dirty chi (feeling of bubbles) pouring out from the feet which happens occasionally throughout the day. Otherwise tension leaves my system as "tingles" (at the crown for example), very different feeling than the "bubbles pouring out".

 

Pressure keep accumulating in my chest, I do the bare minimum of meditation just to release excesses.
To ground myself: Tai Chi, "earthing" barefoot on backyard, Hakuin soft butter meditation, walking in the forest, I go out in public places like the beach more often.

Theses things alleviate a lot the symptoms, they are manageable.

I am not waiting for a magical fix of course, I intend to take full responsibility for myself. Just interested in your perspective, ideas and any resources I could check out to have a more rounded approach in general.

Thank you!

[Giles]

Sounds like it might be an overactive pingala nadi. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

If that's the case, you might need to find someone who is competent to teach you a serious daily nadi shodana practice.

 

[johndoe2012]

Sounds like dissociation from your feelings. 

 

My initial impression. 

[Rheor]

10 hours ago, Giles said:

Sounds like it might be an overactive pingala nadi. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

If that's the case, you might need to find someone who is competent to teach you a serious daily nadi shodana practice.

 

Thank you Giles, I remember doing this more than two years ago, I felt better at the beginning of the practice but then the blockages in my system "clogged up" fast and felt worse.

I will give it a second shot to see how it goes..

Humming "Om" seems to help calm things down on a side note.
 

5 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

Sounds like dissociation from your feelings. 

 

My initial impression. 

Yeah, there was a lot of that I can't deny, I have been working specifically on this the past few months and will work with therapist to see if anything is left unresolved.

Fortunately, I feel a lot less dissociated although I am still having the aforementioned symptoms of energy buildup in the chest, I learn to go with it anyways. Thank you.

[Giles]

7 hours ago, Rheor said:

Thank you Giles,

 

You're most welcome, Rheor.

 

7 hours ago, Rheor said:

I remember doing this more than two years ago, I felt better at the beginning of the practice but then the blockages in my system "clogged up" fast and felt worse.

I will give it a second shot to see how it goes..

 

Just to clarify my advice: what I said was that in the event that it is actually an overactive pingala nadi, you might need to locate someone who is competent to teach you how to practice nadi shodana properly.

 

What I'd advise against is DIY pranayama, with the sole exception of coherent breathing/resonant breathing, which is clinically validated to have health benefits (it's antihypertensive & sleep promoting) because it rebalances the sympathetic & parasympathetic nervous systems. Should you wish to go down that route, I recommend the FDA-cleared Resperate device (resperate.com).

 

If you're determined to go down the DIY nadi shodana route again, despite it not having successfully remedied your issue 2 years ago, I strongly advise you to read the relevant sections of Gregor Maehle's pranayama manual very carefully.

 

Please note also that Maehle is very specific re: DIY pranayama:

 

Quote

DISCLAIMER

 

This book does not constitute medical advice. Contact a medical practitioner to determine whether you are fit to perform these yogic exercises.

Pranayama cannot be learned from media such as this book, which is not able to give feedback, but must be learned from a qualified teacher. This book can be used only for study and as a supplement to personal instruction. It is also offered as additional education for teachers.

It is aimed at the average student, who exists only in theory. In reality the teacher has to adapt the practice to the individual.
 

The pranayama described here is for spiritual insight for people of average health who are already established in asana (posture) practice. Although pranayama has manifold therapeutic benefits, the pranayama described here is not specifically designed for the alleviation of diseases.

 

Source: Maehle, G. (2012). Pranayama The Breath of Yoga. Kaivalya Publications.

 

 

If you have any questions, I'm happy to respond to the best of my abilities on this thread because I feel that PMs lack the appropriate wider community scrutiny and, in the past on this forum, that route's led to people entrapping others in their own favourite cults.

 

Hope that makes sense and hoping that you find the above useful. 🤞🏻

 

Best Wishes,

 

Edited July 28 by Giles

[doc benway]

Two simple practices could potentially be helpful from my perspective.

 

First practice - opening your heart with the seed syllable HUNG (the syllable in my avatar). Connect to the feeling you have in the heart center. Be open to whatever comes up for you when you connect there. No need to engage or analyze, just experience what is there in the body, the inner speech, the thoughts, and feelings. Sit with that for a few moments and then begin chanting the seed syllable HUNG (u is pronounced like oo in book). Feel the vibration of the HUNG in the heart center. As you sing HUNG, imagine and feel a radiant, deep blue light emanating from the heart in all directions. Repeat this as many times as you would like. When you are finished, stay connected to the heart center and notice if there is any change in how you feel. In particular, be aware of and connect to any sense of openness, spaciousness, or warmth there. This could be a sense of physical warmth but also a sense of comfort, of support, of kindness - for your own struggles and those of others. Rest your attention fully in the openness of the heart for as long as it remains fresh.

 

Second practice - sky gazing. Sit or lie down in a comfortable position such that you are able to see the clear, open sky without obstruction. Ideally the sun is behind you. Bring your attention to the heart center. Open to whatever comes up as you rest in the heart. Open your eyes, if they're not already open, and allow your gaze to rest in the open sky. Whatever comes up in the body, inner speech, thoughts and feelings is allowed to come and go without any suppression, engagement, or analysis. Just notice what comes up and continue to rest in the embrace of the open sky. As you feel the openness of the sky, feel the openness in your heart. Notice the distinction between inner and outer and how, with time and patience, the boundary becomes less well-defined. Rest your body, speech, and mind fully in the openness of the sky and the heart. Once again connect to any sense of spaciousness and warmth that may be present and stay with that for as long as it's fresh. 

 

Any questions, feel free to send me a PM.

[Rheor]

1 hour ago, steve said:

Two simple practices could potentially be helpful from my perspective.

 

First practice - opening your heart with the seed syllable HUNG (the syllable in my avatar). Connect to the feeling you have in the heart center. Be open to whatever comes up for you when you connect there. No need to engage or analyze, just experience what is there in the body, the inner speech, the thoughts, and feelings. Sit with that for a few moments and then begin chanting the seed syllable HUNG (u is pronounced like oo in book). Feel the vibration of the HUNG in the heart center. As you sing HUNG, imagine and feel a radiant, deep blue light emanating from the heart in all directions. Repeat this as many times as you would like. When you are finished, stay connected to the heart center and notice if there is any change in how you feel. In particular, be aware of and connect to any sense of openness, spaciousness, or warmth there. This could be a sense of physical warmth but also a sense of comfort, of support, of kindness - for your own struggles and those of others. Rest your attention fully in the openness of the heart for as long as it remains fresh.

I'm a definitely a fan of short mantras/syllables as "formal" ones scares the living out of me due to karmic sicknesses (I put them on hold for a little while..),.

I recently started chanting "OM" freely throughout the day due to vagus nerve benefits and restoring overall balance, I just love the simplicity of it.

I am curious to try this practice, it will probably provide the same benefits on healing the [nervous system]/[vagus nerve].

I also like the idea of visualizing blue with attributes of comfort, of support, of kindness. Sounds grounding and balancing to the yang expanding aspects.

I assume you enjoy this practice considering your avatar, has it personally helped you with the heart center ?

 

1 hour ago, steve said:

Second practice - sky gazing. Sit or lie down in a comfortable position such that you are able to see the clear, open sky without obstruction. Ideally the sun is behind you. Bring your attention to the heart center. Open to whatever comes up as you rest in the heart. Open your eyes, if they're not already open, and allow your gaze to rest in the open sky. Whatever comes up in the body, inner speech, thoughts and feelings is allowed to come and go without any suppression, engagement, or analysis. Just notice what comes up and continue to rest in the embrace of the open sky. As you feel the openness of the sky, feel the openness in your heart. Notice the distinction between inner and outer and how, with time and patience, the boundary becomes less well-defined. Rest your body, speech, and mind fully in the openness of the sky and the heart. Once again connect to any sense of spaciousness and warmth that may be present and stay with that for as long as it's fresh.

This sounds good as it will encourage me to get outside more . Here the only thing I am afraid of, is to want to the hide away from the vast expanse, but I guess doing it in nature would provide the grounding.

Really appreciate your concern and your helpful suggestions.

 

2 hours ago, steve said:

Any questions, feel free to send me a PM.

I hope you don't mind having asked a question here. I like to leave things in the open for other folks.
Anyways, thanks for your openness.

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, Rheor said:

I hope you don't mind having asked a question here. I like to leave things in the open for other folks.

 

Wonderful

 

2 hours ago, Rheor said:

Anyways, thanks for your openness.

 

My pleasure

 

2 hours ago, Rheor said:

I assume you enjoy this practice considering your avatar, has it personally helped you with the heart center ?

 

Yes, I find it supportive of opening the heart/mind.

Sometimes I do it alone, often in combination with other seed syllables.

There is a comprehensive practice working with A, Om, Hung, Ram, and Dza to open the crown, throat, heart, navel, and secret chakras.

 

2 hours ago, Rheor said:

This sounds good as it will encourage me to get outside more . Here the only thing I am afraid of, is to want to the hide away from the vast expanse, but I guess doing it in nature would provide the grounding.

 

Yes, the openness can be a bit disconcerting, even destabilizing. 

Take it slow and don't force it if uncomfortable.

For sure the connection to earth while practicing is important. 

Also important is to continuously release whatever comes up in the heart/mind into that openness.

 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:16 AM, Rheor said:

Hello,

I have been meditating a lot for two years, I reduced off from 8 hours daily to 2/3 hours over the course of two months in order to focus on my life, be more independent and less dissociated. During this time I believe, I cleared out a lot of "stuff" from my energy system.
 

 

Do you do seated meditation?

 

Quote

 

I feel most of my energy working around the heart chakra, like a "lock" in the center of my chest. My chest feels "full" with heat and pain accumulating in the heart, some head pressure aswell along with some level of mental fog. I have felt lots of clearing out of the chest with what felt like (and continues to feel like) dirty chi (feeling of bubbles) pouring out from the feet which happens occasionally throughout the day. Otherwise tension leaves my system as "tingles" (at the crown for example), very different feeling than the "bubbles pouring out".
 

 

 

From my own writing:

 

There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages. 

 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

 

The emphasis for me is always on the location of consciousness.  Here's my summary of the mindfulness that made up Gautama's way of living:

 

1) Relax the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation;

2) Find a feeling of ease and calm the senses connected with balance, in inhalation and exhalation;

3) Appreciate and detach from thought, in inhalation and exhalation;

4) Look to the free location of consciousness for the automatic activity of inhalation and exhalation.
 

 

The ease I experience arrives through the sense of gravity:

If I can find a way to experience gravity in the placement of attention as the source of activity in my posture, and particular ligaments as the source of the reciprocity in that activity, then I have an ease.

 

(“To Enjoy Our Life”’)

 

 

If the automatic activity of the body takes place solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness, then:
 

... ease in the nerve exits between vertebrae along the sacrum and spine provides an ability to feel right to the surface of the skin all over the body, such that “there is not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of consciousness.

(Applying the Pali Instructions)

 

 

Things I find helpful to recall:
 

This study (research by Indahl, A., et al.) established that the ligamento-muscular reflex existed between the sacroiliac joint and muscles that attach to the bones that make up the sacroiliac joint. (The study’s authors) suggested that the sacroiliac joint was a regulator of pelvic and paraspinal muscles and, thereby, influences posture and lumbar segmental stability.

(Serola Biomechanics website summary of Indahl, A., et al., Sacroiliac joint involvement in activation of the porcine spinal and gluteal musculature. Journal of Spinal Disorders, 1999. 12(4): p. 325-30; https://europepmc.org/article/med/10451049
https://www.serola.net/research-category/the-nutation-lesion-2/ligamento-muscular-reflex/)

 

 

That says that the stretch of ligaments between the pelvis and the sacrum can regulate the reciprocal activity between the front and rear of the pelvis in the lower body--just have to stay calm!

 

There is another peculiarity of the erector muscles of the spine. Below the level of the fifth lumbar vertebra, the muscle contracts in a compartment enclosed by bone anteriorly, laterally, and medially. Posteriorly, the compartment is closed by the lumbodorsal fascia. When contracted, the diameter of the muscle mass tends to increase. This change in shape of the muscle may exert a wedging effect between the sacrum and the lumbodorsal fascia, thereby increasing the tension in the fascia. This may be one of the few instances where a muscle can exert force by pushing.

 

(“Mechanical Disorders of the Low Back”, H. F. Farfan; © 1973 Lea & Febiger; p 183)

 

 

Turns out there is a mechanism proposed whereby a displacement of the fascia behind the lower spine by a millimeter or so, perhaps by pressure generated in the "fluid ball" of the abdomen, can provide support to the structure of the lower spine (Gracovetsky, S., Farfan HF, Lamay C, 1997. A mathematical model of the lumbar spine using an optimal system to control muscles and ligaments. Orthopedic Clinics of North America 8: 135-153).

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6 by Mark Foote

[dwai]

Another thing to try is Sudarshan Kriya practice. 

https://www.artofliving.org/in-en/about-us/sudarshan-kriya/what-is-sudarshan-kriya

It is a good and simple practice that takes about 25-30 minutes each day and will help clean and open up your channels and regulate your energy. 

I have some of my practice notes here if you are interested - 

 

[Rheor]

@Mark Foote @dwai
Hello, thank you so much for your concern, been having a little disconcerting health issue in the meantime.
I will make sure to come back here as soon as possible to read your posts and answer properly .

[Giles]

11 hours ago, Rheor said:

@Mark Foote @dwai
Hello, thank you so much for your concern, been having a little disconcerting health issue in the meantime.
I will make sure to come back here as soon as possible to read your posts and answer properly .

 

What practice(s), if any, have you been using recently?

 

Also, if I might ask, what practice(s) landed you in your initial pickle?

 

Edited August 8 by Giles

[Rheor]

On 8/6/2024 at 6:51 PM, Mark Foote said:

Do you do seated meditation?

Yes.
 

On 8/6/2024 at 6:51 PM, Mark Foote said:

From my own writing:

 

There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages. 

 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

 

The emphasis for me is always on the location of consciousness.  Here's my summary of the mindfulness that made up Gautama's way of living:

 

1) Relax the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation;

2) Find a feeling of ease and calm the senses connected with balance, in inhalation and exhalation;

3) Appreciate and detach from thought, in inhalation and exhalation;

4) Look to the free location of consciousness for the automatic activity of inhalation and exhalation.
 

 

The ease I experience arrives through the sense of gravity:

If I can find a way to experience gravity in the placement of attention as the source of activity in my posture, and particular ligaments as the source of the reciprocity in that activity, then I have an ease.

 

(“To Enjoy Our Life”’)

 

 

If the automatic activity of the body takes place solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness, then:
 

... ease in the nerve exits between vertebrae along the sacrum and spine provides an ability to feel right to the surface of the skin all over the body, such that “there is not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of consciousness.

(Applying the Pali Instructions)

 

 

Things I find helpful to recall:
 

This study (research by Indahl, A., et al.) established that the ligamento-muscular reflex existed between the sacroiliac joint and muscles that attach to the bones that make up the sacroiliac joint. (The study’s authors) suggested that the sacroiliac joint was a regulator of pelvic and paraspinal muscles and, thereby, influences posture and lumbar segmental stability.

(Serola Biomechanics website summary of Indahl, A., et al., Sacroiliac joint involvement in activation of the porcine spinal and gluteal musculature. Journal of Spinal Disorders, 1999. 12(4): p. 325-30; https://europepmc.org/article/med/10451049
https://www.serola.net/research-category/the-nutation-lesion-2/ligamento-muscular-reflex/)

 

 

That says that the stretch of ligaments between the pelvis and the sacrum can regulate the reciprocal activity between the front and rear of the pelvis in the lower body--just have to stay calm!

 

There is another peculiarity of the erector muscles of the spine. Below the level of the fifth lumbar vertebra, the muscle contracts in a compartment enclosed by bone anteriorly, laterally, and medially. Posteriorly, the compartment is closed by the lumbodorsal fascia. When contracted, the diameter of the muscle mass tends to increase. This change in shape of the muscle may exert a wedging effect between the sacrum and the lumbodorsal fascia, thereby increasing the tension in the fascia. This may be one of the few instances where a muscle can exert force by pushing.

 

(“Mechanical Disorders of the Low Back”, H. F. Farfan; © 1973 Lea & Febiger; p 183)

 

 

Turns out there is a mechanism proposed whereby a displacement of the fascia behind the lower spine by a millimeter or so, perhaps by pressure generated in the "fluid ball" of the abdomen, can provide support to the structure of the lower spine (Gracovetsky, S., Farfan HF, Lamay C, 1997. A mathematical model of the lumbar spine using an optimal system to control muscles and ligaments. Orthopedic Clinics of North America 8: 135-153).

That's very interesting, I was not aware how the body could regulates itself in this aspect, for a while I meditated trying to push through the blockages and was having a hard time letting go, that explains why my lower back got so tense..

I will keep in mind the
 

On 8/6/2024 at 6:51 PM, Mark Foote said:

just have to stay calm!

and trust my body.

Thanks for your input.

[stirling]

These are common experiences for regular deep meditators. It means your sitting practice is working. My suggestion would be to keep that "heart" as open as possible and just let it flow out of you. Don't grasp or cling to sensations, or experiences, but let those energetic feeling just pass. You are unblocking your body and mind. 

 

Are you also having deep emotional releases, and difficult material come to mind? 

[Rheor]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:17 PM, dwai said:

Another thing to try is Sudarshan Kriya practice. 

https://www.artofliving.org/in-en/about-us/sudarshan-kriya/what-is-sudarshan-kriya

It is a good and simple practice that takes about 25-30 minutes each day and will help clean and open up your channels and regulate your energy. 

I have some of my practice notes here if you are interested - 

 

Hello @dwai

I am very interested in the regulate aspect, also your feedbacks on the mentioned thread makes me want set a time aside and try the three first exercises for myself to see how it goes. I just hope it won't add too much fuel to the (heart) fire.

I will keep posted if I have any interesting feedback to share.

Thank you.

[dwai]

27 minutes ago, Rheor said:

Hello @dwai

I am very interested in the regulate aspect, also your feedbacks on the mentioned thread makes me want set a time aside and try the three first exercises for myself to see how it goes. I just hope it won't add too much fuel to the (heart) fire.

I will keep posted if I have any interesting feedback to share.

Thank you.

Please don’t try these yourself without proper guidance. There is a specific technique and you should invest the time to learn the full practice.
 

Most people who run into trouble with esoteric practices are those who experiment without proper understanding or guidance. 

[Rheor]

19 hours ago, dwai said:

Please don’t try these yourself without proper guidance. There is a specific technique and you should invest the time to learn the full practice.
 

Most people who run into trouble with esoteric practices are those who experiment without proper understanding or guidance. 

Ok, I will leave it on the side for now. Thanks for the words of caution.

[Rheor]

On 8/8/2024 at 10:35 AM, Giles said:

 

What practice(s), if any, have you been using recently?

 

 

 

• meditation 2 hours a day approximately, gentle attention on the belly expanding and shrinking while "letting go".
• 45mins of Tai Chi which helps sending more energy to the whole body instead of mainly having it ascending in the trunk.
• Hakuin melting butter visualization a few times a day (sometimes I do it while walking) which I find very helpful to calm the mind / heart fire, it has a calming yin, stabilizing effect, also regulates bowels and hormones in my experience.
• watching my thoughts in general.
• "karma yoga", trying to be helpful when I can with family members.
• dream journaling to get better insights to my unconscious and integrate ignored aspects of my psyche.

 

On 8/8/2024 at 10:35 AM, Giles said:

 

Also, if I might ask, what practice(s) landed you in your initial pickle?

 

• I would not call it practice, but I guess life in general, prolonged emotional turmoil with "no way out" but through meditation, loss of old  anchors to life (which were already shaky in the first place), deletion of social networks, lost contacts with friends, loss of job, loss of distractions, all of which led to a Dark Night.
• Hungry ghosts offering I stopped for now, in my experience, I think it actually creates a lot of merit but also increased a lot the intensity of purification, also the mantras involved in the ceremony push through the blockages too much. I needed a break, it was too potent for me, I felt "off" for weeks after a single offering.
• General lopsidedness towards meditation, not wanting to hear about fixing my life differently..

I prefer to take it slow, I have been partly running away from life and want to live coherently now, cleanup the best I can around the "heart opening", not obsessing over it to much, and try to work on what I previously ignored like survival needs, hobbies, activities, social life, autonomy/independence, etc.. before cultivating consciously with increased intensity. Of course, easier said than done.

[Rheor]

On 8/10/2024 at 7:41 PM, stirling said:

These are common experiences for regular deep meditators. It means your sitting practice is working. My suggestion would be to keep that "heart" as open as possible and just let it flow out of you. Don't grasp or cling to sensations, or experiences, but let those energetic feeling just pass. You are unblocking your body and mind. 

 

Are you also having deep emotional releases, and difficult material come to mind? 

My intuition tells me the process is working as it should, I try to adapt to it the best I can. In my experience most of the difficulties stemmed from resistance / fear of the unknown. When I stop thinking about the sensations, it's not so bad at all, it required accepting them and going with it.

 

On 8/10/2024 at 7:41 PM, stirling said:

Are you also having deep emotional releases, and difficult material come to mind? 

   

Yes, it has been a difficult emotional roller coaster, but not necessarily directly linked to the "process".

 

I worked through theses emotions in the past (many of them are no longer relevant):

• grief
• sadness
• depression
• bouts of excessive paranoia 
• distrust of life
• dissatisfaction towards life
• excessive worrying about occasional health issues or about society
• defeatist attitude
• despair
• hopelessness
• helplessness (would not muster up the courage to do anything at all, pointless to even try anything)
• shame/guilt/worthlessness

 

Now it is more like:

• some degree mental confusion
• restlessness
• anxiety
• feeling of insecurity / instability
• feeling of being in a "limbo" sometimes

 

Dorsal Vagal Shutdown explained the initial difficulties:
https://acupuncturetoday.com/article/34334-polyvagal-theory-dorsal-vagal-shutdown
https://advaitashram.org/kundalini-the-vagus-nerve/

 

I also found out about Anima possession, which is fascinating subject, also partly explains some emotional distress.
https://appliedjung.com/anima-possession/

Edited August 11 by Rheor

[Bhathen]

Listening to or chanting 'Om Mani Padme Hum' is a simple yet profound practice for the heart chakra. Opening the heart chakra does not mean things will get better, more spiralling towards emptiness before you are out of it.

 

 

Edited August 11 by Bhathen

[Mark Foote]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:35 AM, Rheor said:

That's very interesting, I was not aware how the body could regulates itself in this aspect, for a while I meditated trying to push through the blockages and was having a hard time letting go, that explains why my lower back got so tense..
 

That study is one of the few that addresses the regulation of muscular activity by ligaments. 

There's a reciprocity in the activity of paired muscle groups that I believe the stretch of ligaments controls.  Here's John Upledger, describing his experience of reciprocal innervation in an isolation tank:

 

At some point my body began to make fish-like movements, as though my pelvis and legs were the lower part of a fish moving its tail from side to side. This movement was nice and easy. The neurophysiologist in me related these movements to an expression of what we call ‘reciprocal innervation’. The principle here is that, when your trunk is bent to the side in one direction past a certain threshold, the muscles on the other side of the trunk contract. In doing so, the nerve impulses are diverted from the side to which you are bent, and those muscles relax. Your trunk now bends in the opposite direction until that side-bending threshold is passed. The nerve impulses are then diverted again to the opposite side, causing muscle contraction and side bending in that direction.

 

(“Your Inner Physician and You: Craniosacral Therapy and Somatoemotional Release”, John E. Upledger, p 165)

In his commentary on Case 17 of "The Blue Cliff Record", Yuanwu makes a comment:

 

Answering the monk who asked, “What is the meaning of the Patriarch’s coming from the West?”, Hsiang Lin said, “Sitting for a long time becomes toilsome.”  If you understand this way, you are “turning to the left, turning to the right, following up behind.”

 

(tr. Cleary and Cleary, Shambala Publications, p 114; emphasis added)

 

When I sit, I often look to experience "turning to the left, turning to the right, following up behind" as a function of the stretch of ligaments in the lower body, as automatic activity that follows from relaxation with a sense of gravity (and calm). 

 

 

Edited August 11 by Mark Foote

[stirling]

3 hours ago, Rheor said:

My intuition tells me the process is working as it should, I try to adapt to it the best I can. In my experience most of the difficulties stemmed from resistance / fear of the unknown. When I stop thinking about the sensations, it's not so bad at all, it required accepting them and going with it.

 

This is very sensible. Accepting and allowing are critical. Resistance and trying to get some kind of grip on it with practices or intellectual explanation will be less helpful. Allowing these things to come and pass in meditation is ideal. As you say, your problems will be resistance/clinging/aversion,/ fear and thinking about what it might "mean". Be comfortable with it meaning nothing and let it do what is needs to, UNLESS you are in physical pain or have other dangerous medical symptoms, OR are overcome with fear or mania. Both should be opportunities to consider medical, psychological/psychiatric intervention. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Rheor said:

Now it is more like:

• some degree mental confusion
• restlessness
• anxiety
• feeling of insecurity / instability
• feeling of being in a "limbo" sometimes

 

Sounds manageable? 

 

3 hours ago, Rheor said:

Dorsal Vagal Shutdown explained the initial difficulties:
https://acupuncturetoday.com/article/34334-polyvagal-theory-dorsal-vagal-shutdown
https://advaitashram.org/kundalini-the-vagus-nerve/

 

I also found out about Anima possession, which is fascinating subject, also partly explains some emotional distress.
https://appliedjung.com/anima-possession/

 

These are the sorts of "explanations" I would be careful about settling on as any kind of cause or effect. Hold such ideas lightly, rather than definitively deciding they represent your personal discomfort. I would leave the diagnosis to where and when a professional is involved.

[Rheor]

On 8/11/2024 at 10:16 PM, stirling said:

 

This is very sensible. Accepting and allowing are critical. Resistance and trying to get some kind of grip on it with practices or intellectual explanation will be less helpful. Allowing these things to come and pass in meditation is ideal. As you say, your problems will be resistance/clinging/aversion,/ fear and thinking about what it might "mean". Be comfortable with it meaning nothing and let it do what is needs to, UNLESS you are in physical pain or have other dangerous medical symptoms, OR are overcome with fear or mania. Both should be opportunities to consider medical, psychological/psychiatric intervention. 

 

 

Thank you for your reassurance, I always check for otherwise potential health issue so no worry about that.

 

On 8/11/2024 at 10:16 PM, stirling said:

 

Sounds manageable?

 

 

 

The hardest part is about adaptation: difficulty concentrating due to energy overloard / upheaval and having limited capacity for things. Makes life within society trickier, not sure I can hold a job for now due to intensity, but life circumstances push me towards resuming one.

 

On 8/11/2024 at 10:16 PM, stirling said:

These are the sorts of "explanations" I would be careful about settling on as any kind of cause or effect. Hold such ideas lightly, rather than definitively deciding they represent your personal discomfort. I would leave the diagnosis to where and when a professional is involved.

For me they are just side avenues to explore for healing and don't interfere with the process in my case. It helps to take care of aspects I did not consider before.
In my opinion, it's very healthy to integrate Anima regardless, or to do some regulating practices to calm the nervous system other than meditation, Tai Chi / "Om" / Socializing / ...

I appreciate you replying in this thread, have you been through this process too ?

[stirling]

21 minutes ago, Rheor said:

Thank you for your reassurance, I always check for otherwise potential health issue so no worry about that.

 

That is great, glad to hear it. 

 

21 minutes ago, Rheor said:

The hardest part is about adaptation: difficulty concentrating due to energy overloard / upheaval and having limited capacity for things. Makes life within society trickier, not sure I can hold a job for now due to intensity, but life circumstances push me towards resuming one.

 

Concentrating in meditation, or daily life? 

 

21 minutes ago, Rheor said:

In my opinion, it's very healthy to integrate Anima regardless, or to do some regulating practices to calm the nervous system other than meditation, Tai Chi / "Om" / Socializing / ...

 

To be honest, I am not entirely sure what "Anima" looks like in a practice. I have done any number of practices, but none more centering than simple "open awareness" meditation. 

 

21 minutes ago, Rheor said:

I appreciate you replying in this thread, have you been through this process too ?

 

My primary experience is in the Soto Zen and Dzogchen/Nyingma Buddhism. While I have done some practices working with "energies" these generally become unspecified and the specifics are dropped once there is some success with them. The advice of my teachers has always been not to become attached to the specifics of practice or the results as they can become hinderances. I have had many "supernatural" phenomena, and "energetic" events of various kinds, and would report them as they came up, and they were usually met with mild interest and a little reassurance that it was fine.

[Rheor]

On 8/13/2024 at 5:45 PM, stirling said:

 

Concentrating in meditation, or daily life? 
 

 

Both, especially before having lots of "dirty chi" pouring out.

 

 

On 8/13/2024 at 5:45 PM, stirling said:

 

To be honest, I am not entirely sure what "Anima" looks like in a practice. I have done any number of practices, but none more centering than simple "open awareness" meditation. 

 

 

There might also be some unconscious laziness and character defect adding up to the "process", that is why I talked about "Anima possession" due to being "stuck in emptiness" and reluctance to take active stance in the practical side of life after having my inner landscape turned upside down for so long without groundedness in real life.
I took pride in my old career 4 years ago, now it feels so alien and no motivation to put in the effort in going back to that..
Sorry for the rambling..

 

"Anima" is the feminine side of man, "Animus" is the masculine side of woman according to C.G. Jung. They are psychological archetypes deriving from the unconscious and have value in being integrated to be more "whole".

Anima integration would be about consciously expressing latent feminine qualities in you, that don't have the opportunity to shine in waking life, hence they remain in the "shadow".

 

I like this quote to explain how it can typically manifest negatively ("possession") in real life :

 

Quote

“In its individual manifestation the character of a man's anima is as a rule shaped by his mother. If he feels that his mother had a negative influence on him, his anima will often express itself in irritable, depressed moods, uncertainty, insecurity, and touchiness. (If, however he is able to overcome the negative assaults on himself, they can serve to reinforce his masculinity.) Within the soul of such a man the negative mother-anima figure will endlessly repeat this theme: "I am nothing. Nothing makes any sense. With others it's different, but for me...I enjoy nothing." These "anima moods" cause a sort of dullness, a fear of disease, of impotence, or of accidents. The whole of life takes on a sad and oppressive aspect. Such dark moods can even lure a man to suicide, in which case the anima becomes a death demon. She appears in this role in Cocteau's film Orphee.”
    ― C.G. Jung, Man and His Symbols

   

After getting interested in Carl Jung work I remembered about the "du-yin", which is the closest concept I found to include "Anima" in cultivation terms.

 

According to William Bodri in "How to Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization":

 

Quote

In Buddhist psychology, the ordinary everyday mind of mentation, or "sixth consciousness," discriminates objects and combines together the various impressions of our senses (sounds, etc.). In other words, it enables us to judge and evaluate things. Since everything existence has both a positive and negative aspect, a yin nature and yang nature, the consciousness cannot escape this principle either. Hence, it has a bright, clear side discrimination, and also a shadow side as well.

 

The bright or clarity side of the sixth consciousness takes in all of the information provided the senses, and makes sense of it. The shadow side of the sixth consciousness, on the other operates in its own independent realm, and does not rely on the eyes, ears, nose and so on order to operate. Since this flip side of the sixth consciousness can operate by itself, it is called the "solitary consciousness."

 

This shadow side, or yin-aspect of the sixth consciousness, which is also called the du-yin ("solitary shadow") consciousness, produces the pictures and sensations of whatever experience within our dreams, among other things. Dreams are the operational province of solitary consciousness, and so are cases of insanity. In many cases our real personality behavioral traits are only revealed during our dreams, so true spiritual cultivators use indicators to spot the faults and bad habits they should change.

  

On 8/13/2024 at 5:45 PM, stirling said:

 

    My primary experience is in the Soto Zen and Dzogchen/Nyingma Buddhism. While I have done some practices working with "energies" these generally become unspecified and the specifics are dropped once there is some success with them. The advice of my teachers has always been not to become attached to the specifics of practice or the results as they can become hinderances. I have had many "supernatural" phenomena, and "energetic" events of various kinds, and would report them as they came up, and they were usually met with mild interest and a little reassurance that it was fine.

 

I am also not really interested about "supernatural" / energy phenomena and such, I am more interested in being more a balanced person overall in a practical sense right now, socialize more and start "living" again (maybe too soon, I don't know), minimize unnecessary inertia in my own life. I don't have any teacher, other than internet, thankfully reassurance is there too.

 

Edited August 16 by Rheor