Soul in Buddhism

[old3bob]

 

"nah, if he had no self and no soul, how come he has a name?"  from TT

 

which reminds me, while some of us are beating our brains out against the wall, someone said, "I got a name..."

 

 

and the kids sing....(Zen)

 

Edited Monday at 03:15 PM by old3bob

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, doc benway said:

This is the difference between mindfulness and dzogchen.

In mindfulness, we remain identified with the watcher and perfect the art of staying present and attentive.

In dzogchen, we turn the attention directly on the watcher and see what exactly that is. 

I don’t mean it should be an analytical process, per se, but that is what is called “turning the light around."

 

When the looker looks back at itself directly, without thinking about it or analyzing it intellectually, both the looker and what is being looked at dissolve, if only for an instant.

In that dissolution, there is the meaning of emptiness of self. 

It is not intellectual or conceptual, it is open and empty and that’s where we abide. 

Looking back at the observer is just one way to connect to the spaciousness and clarity of the present moment.

There are others. 

 

I suspect this is why Buddha may have refused to answer the question about self, his non-verbal instruction being that it is more important to do the work than be given an answer.

Thanks you for your encouragement. 

[stirling]

8 hours ago, doc benway said:

Perhaps stirling will have some other comments but I’d like to offer mine.

 

It is worth listening to our brilliant friend Doc, here. I might have said some of it, but greatly enjoyed reading all of it.

 

16 hours ago, Tommy said:

When I started, there was this constant thinking of what I was doing. After some practice, there were moments of quiet. However, there was still this point of view. Of a person watching, here I am . Sometimes not focused on the object or the crutch I was using to focus my mind (breath). Later, the thought process seems to be what the mind was at that moment. I never understood the words about the river. That one can not step into the river in the same spot twice. But, turns out the mind is like the river. And one is never the same as stuff changes all the time. So, the river changes and is not the same from moment to moment as the mind is not the same. Guess maybe I really don't understand. Or maybe just doing it wrong?? But, thanks for your kind words.

 

Actually, I think you have made some progress, from an intellectual standpoint. If there is a "self" what IS it. Does it always have the same thoughts... do the senses always see from the same perspective? Do you meet the same "I" every time you sit on the cushion? Are you the same person when you are at work, or with your partner, or with old friends, or are these selves different? Is there really ONE "self" that you can point to?

 

Where there is just stillness of the mind in your sitting, is there a "self" watching, or separate objects in your view? With your eyes open and without thought filling your mind with conceptual objects, is there anything that has existence of its own as separate, or just a panorama of color, shape, and light in your view? Look carefully when the mind is still.

 

The very basis of everything is present when the mind is still. It is a ripe opportunity for seeing things as they truly are.

 

-

 

Don't expect to get this because we are pointing at it, or from reading this on a board, though it COULD happen. It is hard, in my experience, to impart these ideas without at least some face to face Zoom work. Still... just looking at this again and again could crack it. Feel free to message me if you are truly curious about this. 

[Tommy]

10 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

It is worth listening to our brilliant friend Doc, here. I might have said some of it, but greatly enjoyed reading all of it.

 

 

Actually, I think you have made some progress, from an intellectual standpoint. If there is a "self" what IS it. Does it always have the same thoughts... do the senses always see from the same perspective? Do you meet the same "I" every time you sit on the cushion? Are you the same person when you are at work, or with your partner, or with old friends, or are these selves different? Is there really ONE "self" that you can point to?

 

Where there is just stillness of the mind in your sitting, is there a "self" watching, or separate objects in your view? With your eyes open and without thought filling your mind with conceptual objects, is there anything that has existence of its own as separate, or just a panorama of color, shape, and light in your view? Look carefully when the mind is still.

 

The very basis of everything is present when the mind is still. It is a ripe opportunity for seeing things as they truly are.

 

-

 

Don't expect to get this because we are pointing at it, or from reading this on a board, though it COULD happen. It is hard, in my experience, to impart these ideas without at least some face to face Zoom work. Still... just looking at this again and again could crack it. Feel free to message me if you are truly curious about this. 

Thank you. Yes, I think I do understand it intellectually. And hope eventually thru practice. But, do not want to hi jack this thread which is similar to my recent thread about no soul and rebirth. The point of self observation to see the self or emptiness of self may become a real possibility which then explains how rebirth is possible with no self. But, no words can explain. Hmm, I just read what I wrote and it makes no sense. Anyway, thanks.

[johndoe2012]

For temporary suspension of the self generation, you could try the Dzogchen Semdzins in the Kindle sample of the book. 

 

Quote

Semdzins ‘hold’ the mind momentarily, during which time the window to the nature of mind is thrown open or enlarged and nonmeditation proceeds.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:09 AM by johndoe2012

[stirling]

13 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

For temporary suspension of the self generation, you could try the Dzogchen Semdzins in the Kindle sample of the book. 

 

Believe it or not, even a sneeze, or a sudden surprise will do it as well.

[johndoe2012]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

 

Believe it or not, even a sneeze, or a sudden surprise will do it as well.

 

Yesterday it happened when I went dancing 😊

[stirling]

44 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

Yesterday it happened when I went dancing 😊

 

People get all excited about the rarity or difficulty of reaching "cessation" (4th Noble Truth), but in fact it happens in short bursts all the time, and is completely familiar to most people once they realize what it is. 

 

...of course these cessations lack the complete realization of what they actually are, and the depth of emptiness it is possible to understand and appreciate.

[johndoe2012]

8 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

People get all excited about the rarity or difficulty of reaching "cessation" (4th Noble Truth), but in fact it happens in short bursts all the time, and is completely familiar to most people once they realize what it is. 

 

...of course these cessations lack the complete realization of what they actually are, and the depth of emptiness it is possible to understand and appreciate.

 

Yesterday when I recognized it, there was no judging or anything. Just non doing and joy. 

 

Even if people don't know what this is, it actually doesn't matter. They are all divine anyway. 

[Tommy]

It can be a scary experience for those not understanding what is happening. Not wanting this, it can make one think that they are losing their minds or grip on reality. So, important to have a good teacher.

[Tommy]

It can be a scary experience for those not understanding what is happening. Not wanting this, it can make one think that they are losing their minds or grip on reality. So, important to have a good teacher and sangha.

Edited Thursday at 03:10 AM by Tommy

[Lairg]

On 7/30/2024 at 2:48 PM, Chang dao ling said:

Hi, what did buddha teach about soul? I know buddha teach no self . Here I believe self means soul.

 

In the ancient Egyptian/Kabbalistic system the human has 5 souls.  Each soul body has an intelligence operating that part of the human:

 

- physical

- emotional

- mental

- heart

- spiritual will (atma).

 

Even that list is a bit tricky as often the human has those bodies split e.g. a personal mind and a transpersonal mind, a personal heart and a cosmic heart

 

Traditionally society allows 7 years to learn to control each soul body so by the age of 21 a human was supposed be an adult.

 

Jung maintained that by the age of 42 the human could be ready for a mission in life.  That assumed the human worked very fast and learned to control the first trans-human soul body (monad).

 

The intelligence of a particular soul may find the allocated soul body unsuitable or improperly connected and wait for the next incarnation.  Fortunately parallel processing occurs in Nature

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:52 AM by Lairg