true names of God(s), Demons etc

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

not to mention the green cheese moon!  not much choice there either.

 

I can show you B'liyal.  Can you show me the green cheese moon?

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

not to mention the green cheese moon!  not much choice there either.

 

I recently took a friend of mine to heaven and introduced them to God.  One of my proudest achievements.

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

 

 

Nungali, if you've tested this enochian language, and you say that it works, please demonstrate.   Otherwise, what is the point in bringing it up?

 

Have you forgotten what the thread is about ?   Maybe , again, get of the urge to be Daniel Denial about ANYTHING that relates to the western esoteric or occult tradition and try to focus on what other people are actually saying and the context of why they are saying it .

 

Ie.   " .... have any fragments, papyri etc been found which mention alleged true names? "

 

https://www.drjohndee.net › sources › the_private_diary_of_dr_john_dee.html

The Private Diary of Dr. John Dee, and the Catalog of His Manuscripts ...

Dr Dee's life and writings, presented with context, from source materials. The life and times of Dr John Dee ... The Private Diary of Dr. John Dee, and the Catalog of His Manuscripts, from the original manuscripts in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford, and Trinity College Library, Cambridge

 

 

The thing here though is they where never 'lost' nor that ancient .   So they may not be considered by the OP as what they are looking for . It was up to  HIM to choose to pursue it or not ... not you ... and he thanked me and chose not to pursue it as  he didnt want material   " fused with constructs from later eras "

 

If YOU want to try and discredit Enochian as a system ... make your own  thread on it !

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Nungali, if you are confused, it's probably because you're not reading the text in its original language.

 

 

 

What are you talking about ?

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Cobie said:

Or thought? λόγος Logos https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/λόγος

 

 

 

That link seems to indicate sound more than thought ?

[snowymountains]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

It depends on the divinity.  I work with the divine names of the one called אייבישטער, literally, The Most High.  There's rarely any reason for me to use any others.  But I know a few.  

 

There's a list of 7 angel names encoded in the ana b'coakh prayer recited daily in my faith community.

 

Here's a picture from my siddur, ( prayer book ).  But it's not of much use on its own.

 

 

A decent explanation and pronunciation is here:  LINK.  Not perfect, but a good place to start.

 

Thank you, do you have in mind of a decent English translation?

[Nungali]

 

19 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

no, no, you guys just dont think this through;)

you see, even if you speak my lingo i may congratulate you on your linguistics but i am not going to wash your car for you.

 

of course I have thought this though .   

Well, like I explained to my GF's  little guy ;  " Well, finally you have learned how to ask for something when you want it !  Good.

Now... the next big lesson is ..... how to accept a 'no '  for an answer'' .

 

Man !  You would not believe what I have been given by 'asking the right way ' ..... still, it didnt mean I got EVERYTHING I asked for .  Conversely sometimes I got things I asked for ... and wished I had not ! 

 

And if you dont want to wash my car ... for free ... perhaps we could make a little deal ?   is there something I could do for you ?

 

Thats a very basic magical contact that has existed through the ages .

 

 

even if you address me by my secret middle name there will be no result. 'Gimme gimme because your name is Jimmy"? How does that work?

 

Depends what the name is and how secret it is ,  if people  DIDNT know , in this town, what you name is *  , and I threatened to reveal it ... maybe I could get  you to do things 

 

 

*  A man was passing over a bridge and stopped to look at the view over the town . Another man came the other way and asked ,

"Stopping to admire the view ?"

" Yes."

" You see those houses, I built many of those houses, and I built them well , but do the people of this town call me 'Abdul-the builder? No they do not ! "

" Oh ? You seem a bit bitter about that ? "

"I am ! But it isnt  just that !  You see those fields out there ? I own many of those fields and work hard in them and supply a lot of food to the town . Do they call me 'Abdul - the farmer ? No! They do not . "

" Oh I see ... but why .... "

" You see the mosque there ? I hepled build that , often I give a sermon there on  Fridays . Do     the people of this town call me 'Abdul the devoted ' ? No ! They do not .  ........   but they catch you  fucking  ONE goat and  ......    " 

 

i know. i was only poking fun at those who think that invoking a spirit by his true name somehow makes the spirit to do their bidding. why would it? they just dont think that far ahead;)

 

The idea I was talking about is 'at least they know what you are talking about . of course there is a LOT more in the ceremony than just the words  .... magic tradition is full of stories where  some of the ritual was done right , but not all of it, and then things got really out of hand .     We could say the same about a chemical experiment ... or early alchemy ;

 

 

 

Jack Parson's home lab  ( magician , occultist , OTO Lodge Master and inventor of solid rocket fuel . )   He knew the lingo

 

 

.... but that doesnt help if you drop some fulminate of mercury  into the middle of things ... whoopsie , butter fingers !

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5 by Nungali

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

When we think of a word our vocal cords and muscles move slightly. Thinking of a word and saying it is much closer than widely believed.

The reverse is also true, saying something ( because e.g. we read out loud a text ) will induce thoughts.

 

I heard an interesting comment ; "  He was dumb and could not speak at all, later I found out he was Australian ..... usually  we think that because of the accent, but this guy was  ...... Australian in his head . "     

 

Tbh I don't believe it makes a huge difference either way, though both thinking of something and speaking it at the same time, mindfully speaking if you like, is the strongest.

A ritual may also help someone feel something to the core of their bones, but someone else may do the same thing by being is a single focus meditative state..

 

'Magical words' are said to be 'vibrated' , even so you feel it in different parts of your body , this would include 'the core of your bones' .  Israel Regardie seems a better source about this 'vibration' .

 

You above paragraph virtually describes the whole process of  ritual magic ;  the  'passive mind meditative state ' - 'single focus '  or . I think, more correctly 'single intention ' or even 'staying in the same vibrational focus field ' is the key . But  this can come about by 'multiple focus' as long as anything the mind is attracted to or distracted by points back in the same direction ; hence the idea of setting up the ritual via harmonious correspondences .  Say I wanted to invoke Venus , everything used on that ritual and the parts of it should be Venusian  ; the smells via the incense, the sights by the form and color of temple furniture and arrangements , the vestments  'focus'   .... everything in the temple , so even if the mind wanders around it is surrounded by ' Venusian  energy '  ( or reminders if one likes .

 

 

Tbh I think both approaches are equally valid towards achieving the goal and selection is largely a matter of background culture and taste.

 

 

The true name is typically somewhat descriptive of the essence of a God/Demon, or if you prefer Archetype. 

 

Ahh, now I get you !     My definition of archetype  is different ;   a symbol that  humans from any time or place can identify as the same meaning

 

 

Now the   meaning of you possibly 'meeting an archetype ' is clearer .       perhaps HE was being influenced by the site energy , or maybe a regular visitor as well , he may be 'imbued '  by it .

 

Which why it's interesting, it sort of attempts to "evoke" the archetype by bringing its essence to the conscious mind.

 

As a sidekick to the thread, does Daoism have something similar to "true names", if so are they written in any "classic" Daoist book, which also happens to be translated in English ?

 

Edited August 5 by Nungali

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

Have you forgotten ...

 

Nungali, have you forgotten, in this thread, you said you had tested the enochian language and it worked?

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

That link seems to indicate sound more than thought ?

 no

 

Edited August 6 by Cobie

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

What are you talking about ?

 

Never mind.  You seemed confused about something, but, if you don't remember, don't worry about it.

[Daniel]

58 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Thank you, do you have in mind of a decent English translation?

 

Sure, let's see how legible this is?

 

 

I'm on my phone.  If this won't work let me know and I'll either hand-type it or take a better picture.

[Nungali]

 

Where is the English translation of the 'secret name '   ? 

Edited August 6 by Nungali

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

 no

 

 

 

1. That which is said: word, sentence, speech, story, debate, utterance, argument
2. That which is thought: reason, consideration, computation, reckoning.
3. An account, explanation, or narrative.
4. Subject matter.
5. (Philosophy) The word or wisdom of God, identified with Jesus in the New Testament, by whom the world was created; God the Son.

1, 3, 4 and 5 seem to indicate words  while only 2 seem to indicate thought

 

ergo

 

That link seems to indicate sound more than thought ?

 

- just a simple observation .

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

Never mind.  You seemed confused about something, but, if you don't remember, don't worry about it.

 

Stop hacking three words out of whatever post it was and  then expect an answer .

[Daniel]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Where is the English translation of the 'secret name '   ? 

 

There are no secret names.

 

Edited August 6 by Daniel

[Daniel]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Stop hacking three words out of whatever post it was and  then expect an answer .

 

I'll do what I choose.  I am very happy whether you answer or not.  

 

Edited August 6 by Daniel

[snowymountains]

17 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Sure, let's see how legible this is?

 

 

I'm on my phone.  If this won't work let me know and I'll either hand-type it or take a better picture.

 

Thank you @Daniel, which book is this ?

[Cobie]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

… That link seems to indicate sound more than thought ? …

   ‘sound’ isn’t even mentioned on the link. 

 

Edited August 6 by Cobie

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

Thank you @Daniel, which book is this ?

 

T'hillat Hashem, Kehot publishing. You'll find it in Mincha for weekdays.  Around page 90ish.

 

 

 

Edited August 6 by Daniel

[Daniel]

Deleted. Sorry.

Edited August 6 by Daniel

[Cobie]

@Daniel does this word לוגואים have any meaning in your sacred books? 
 

 

[Daniel]

28 minutes ago, Cobie said:

@Daniel does this word לוגואים have any meaning in your sacred books? 
 

 

 

No.  Not that specific word:  "Logo'im"  The Logos.  It's a Greek borrowed word which was added to the Hebrew language.  In Hebrew it is "Davar Hashem" or "Shechinah" which is described as a feminine vessel for the will of God, whose partner is the masculine "P'nai Hashem". The Davar Hashem ( The word of God ) is referenced most clearly and explicitly in Lukutei Amarim of Rabbi Schnuer Zalman of Liadi somewhere in the 40s by chapter.

 

If you'd like me to find it, on paper, let me know.  There's also a free online version, but, it includes commentary.  You may like it, you may not.

[Cobie]

@Nungali there’s some info about the word ‘Logos’ on the first page of this link 

https://snsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Logos-in-Greek-Culture.pdf    
 

 

Edited August 6 by Cobie

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

… "Logo'im"  The Logos.  It's a Greek borrowed word which was added to the Hebrew language. 

 

Thank you very much for the info. That’s what I expected to hear as the concept of ‘Logos’ was rooted in Greek culture. 
 

Quote

In Hebrew it is "Davar Hashem" or "Shechinah" which is described as a feminine vessel for the will of God, whose partner is the masculine "P'nai Hashem". The Davar Hashem ( The word of God ) …

 

Wow   I never heard of that before. Sounds very interesting. 
 

Quote

is referenced most clearly and explicitly in Lukutei Amarim of Rabbi Schnuer Zalman of Liadi somewhere in the 40s by chapter.

 

If you'd like me to find it, on paper, let me know.  There's also a free online version, but, it includes commentary.  You may like it, you may not.

Thank you but no, it will be beyond my comprehension. Instead I would like to ask you to tell me a little bit more about it in your own words. But please, in words that a 6 year old could understand as that’s about my level of understanding.

It reminds me of this 

On 05/08/2024 at 1:25 PM, Daniel said:

… a partnership, of body-and-soul.  The body is the shell.  The soul is its vivifying essence which is filling it.  Both body-and-soul come from The Most High …

 

 

Edited August 6 by Cobie