DDJ Chapter 48

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

gibberish 

 

If you think it's gibberish, then, maybe the text isn't for you.  

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Honestly, I dont use  texts  

 

Then commenting on them seems silly to me. 

 

Quote

 

nor do I prefer one, 

 

Prefer.

 

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

ask him if my statements are "personal preference"

 

Clearly your statements are personal preference.  You prefer not to use a text.

 

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

ive met who relyed on texts

 

Maybe you missed what I wrote earlier.  I'm not relying on a text.  I'm showing that a technique exists, because you're denying it. 

 

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

without instruction

 

i have had a lot of instruction over the past 20+ years, and I practice daily.  Your assumptions about me are rather gross. 

 

Edited August 14 by Daniel

[Shadow_self]

32 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Maybe you missed what I wrote earlier.  I'm not relying on a text. 

 

I never said you were

 

But you clearly missed what I wrote earlier

 

I'm stepped back as far as conversation with you goes. 

 

So if you could  please stop trying to re-engage I would be very appreciative of that

 

Thank you, and peace  

[Nungali]

 

 

Daniel strikes again ... no matter the thread , no matter the subject ..... he shall ' read up on it ' all night  , in order to ' correct'   us ,

 

 

[Cobie]

 

15 minutes ago, A Flyer of Gy said:

… “Praise ignorance, for what man has not encountered he has not destroyed.”

I agree.  A knife can be used for good (surgery) or evil (murder). Imo best not to give a knife (science) to a child (humanity).

 

Edited August 15 by Cobie

[Nungali]

24 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

I agree.  A knife can be used for good (surgery) or evil (murder). Imo best not to give a knife (science) to a child (humanity).

 

 

OR  .... junior  ( modern 'evolved'  humans , that yet have reached 'species maturity'  )   got into  the gun cupboard and discovered this

 

[Forestgreen]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Ignoring the text, Neidan and Waidan are interrelated?  Yes or No?  That is the question.

If you were shown a waidan process without the classic terminology, and if you were shown a neidan process with a more instructional terminology, would you say they were interrelated?

Yes or no?

That is the question.

 

[Forestgreen]

Basically, the seminar peddlers of yore hitched on an established vocabulary as a sell. The target populaton existed, so they re-packed a commodity in a way that resonated with the crowd.

[Master Logray]

4 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Yes, so my Chinese teacher told me. It was a cultural thing, the priority was ‘harmony’. Be ambiguous and let the context decide.  Idk. 
 

 

 

It is common for ancient texts to have purported multiple purposes and meanings, like philosophical, life guidance, governing a country and as cultivation guide.   My own understanding is limited.  So I gather some thoughts from a book called DDJ Handout, Tips and empirical guide, more a cultivator guide. 

 

***

 

Scholars and crafts learning treasures associating with masters and knowledgeable friends.  Knowing more, then inspiration comes, smartness and skills appear.  You know more, thus find more areas for applying the knowledge.    Cultivating for Tao is the opposite, if one read through many classics, knowing the true meaning and backgrounds, but forget to looking within and staying within, then knowledge becomes wider but one's Shen is disrupted.  You learn more, the Tao is less.  If it is for long, then the Taichi disappears.  So Tao seekers should work like peeling bananas skins, getting less and less until emptiness.   In the end even the emptiness is to be discarded.  Then one obtains the Tao.....

 

For Tao cultivators, if you see knowledge growing day by day instead of reducing day by day, then the mind is dim and not condensed.  The only way is to practice and forget, forgetting and practising, then it won't be Tao's obstacle. If your memory is good and always nagging you with details, then it is worrisome.  So the task is to destroy until there is nothing, reaching the end of nature.  Only then something will arise from nothing, then it is the Real.   All the extra abilities thus come.

 

These are from cultivators' viewpoint of the DDJ.  I would like to point out that this view has a deeper explanation.  That is, when emptiness is achieved.  It is not the end of story.  Only when there is nothing, something (or Cosmic Energy,  Primordial Force, genuine Yang Chi) will arise.  It is in line with YiJing when the Yin is fully reached, then a weak seed of Yang will appear.  And cultivators must grasp the opportunity to "collect medicine" to form the Elixir.

 

So the emoji You Don't Know is the correct approach.

 

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

Both seem to be pretty certain their translation is the only right one. So … ?

so i looked at the Goudian while he did not. we are not the same.

[Master Logray]

On 13/8/2024 at 10:42 PM, Taoist Texts said:

 

i was very sympathetic to both of them, tried to warn them. i failed. but i tried.

 

 

Warned what?

[Taoist Texts]

3 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

Warned what?

that their practice is misguided, harmful and fruitless. that they are headed for a bitter disappointment, a life crisis and a psychological breakdown. but people never listen. as you know.

[Nintendao]

Accumulating and diminishing may be seen as simply as eating food and then taking a dump. Becoming a Taoist means you have to get potty trained. Acting like wild animals can let the end product return to the environment wherever. It’s also possible to rely on a shepherd to keep changing the diaper.
 

What I mean to say is, learning and acquiring contributes to the post-heaven side of a human. When you go to sleep, it will automatically connect with the pre-heavenly system and perform an exchange and rebalancing. The pre-heaven side always knows what to do, just like the ecosystem redistributes wastes to be transformed back into nutrients. A cultivator learns to maintain some consciousness throughout the process. Each day observing and naturally playing a more proactive role, begins to obtain better returns.

 

None of that is important in most cases. What really needs diminishing is selfishness. Once enough knowledge has been gathered, the focus then shifts to being of service to the planet. That is how to become valuable to the Tao.

Edited August 15 by Nintendao

[Master Logray]

16 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

that their practice is misguided, harmful and fruitless. that they are headed for a bitter disappointment, a life crisis and a psychological breakdown. but people never listen. as you know.

 

 

Which part of Freeform's practice?  I only know he stands for hours which I don't really concur.  While Awaken always offend people.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

Which part of Freeform's practice?  I only know he stands for hours which I don't really concur. 

there is right way of doing any thing and there is a wrong way of doing the same thing. and the way to know if it is right or wrong is to look at  what you get. if you spend half of your life on doing something and get nothing in return it means everything was done wrongly alas. that said i cannot praise the both of my friends enough for their dedication.  may heaven bless them both.

[Shadow_self]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

there is right way of doing any thing and there is a wrong way of doing the same thing. and the way to know if it is right or wrong is to look at  what you get. if you spend half of your life on doing something and get nothing in return it means everything was done wrongly alas. that said i cannot praise the both of my friends enough for their dedication.  may heaven bless them both.

 

In order to know what someone has got out of their practice, they first have to inform you, and we both know you dont have insight into that matter, because he keeps quiet about such things

 

However, he left some hints in his wake

 

Quote

In reality there are many things that I prefer not to speak about online… things like the mandalas you’ve mentioned… the 5 coloured lights, the falling snow, ‘inner seeing’, ‘causal seeing’… the appearance of light to other people around me etc. My teacher thinks these aren’t important… And I just don’t want to get into all that because people tend to get caught up with experiences and phenomena. what’s more important is what permanent changes happen inside… lights and phenomena are not important if there’s no transformation. 

 

I'm aware of what hes alluding to here, especially as far as physically emitting light is concerned, and inner/casual seeing, coloured lights, falling show, the mandala. etc

 

And one can revert to writings/commentaries and rehash the confirmatory discussions wrapped up in esoteric speak, sure.

 

But can one discuss the experience and resulting transformation practically?

 

As far as I could tell, they did not appear to be the ones having trouble when the topic of the various shen based phenomena came up.

 

Curiously, they take the same stance as my teachers

 

Now id like to quote you for a moment (because your statement seems quite clear)

 

 

Quote

my humble expertise fails me miserably on this exalted  topic so i cannot name them. What does it mean name them? Lights have special names? Or the underlying phenomena do?

 

 

IWe spoke about the "white room" earlier.  I think we should continue into the practical aspects of it

 

I know @freeformcan discuss these things experientally, and he knows what develops and what follows.

 

Im wondering if you can, given it is a classical neidan development

 

You have the floor my friend  

 

(FYI this development is very topical to DDJ Verse 48 given the relationship to Zuowang)

Edited August 15 by Shadow_self

[Daniel]

10 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

please stop trying to re-engage I would be very appreciative of that

 

I will try to respect that, but, I reserve the right to reply to any post in this thread. 

[Daniel]

8 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

If you were shown a waidan process without the classic terminology, and if you were shown a neidan process with a more instructional terminology, would you say they were interrelated?

Yes or no?

 

No.  Not from being "shown". 

 

If you practice a waidan process and achieve results ( without knowing the classic terminology ) then were shown a neidan process with a more instructional terminology, would you say they were interrelated?

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

59 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

physically

Meaning the practicer emits light out of his body like he is a candle or a lamp, the light seen to others?

[Shadow_self]

20 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Meaning the practicer emits light out of his body like he is a candle or a lamp, the light seen to others?

 

You tell me

 

According to your own words, you are the expert/professional here after all.

 

I'm confident the hints  @freeform left are more than enough for someone of your level of attainment to discuss such things in depth without my help

 

Right? 

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

You tell me

no, there is no such thing

3 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

I think we should continue into the practical aspects of it

 ..... what develops and what follows.

.....Im wondering if you can, given it is a classical neidan development

......You have the floor my friend  

there is no externally emitting light visible to others in neidan. its a fantasy. See? I gave you straight, concrete, practical answer. But of course, i cannot tell what develops and follows a fantasy;)

[Daniel]

10 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Cultivating for Tao is the opposite, if one read through many classics, knowing the true meaning and backgrounds, but forget to looking within and staying within, then knowledge becomes wider but one's Shen is disrupted. 

 

Shen is disrupted when: learning true meaning and background is lacking consistent inward directed awareness?

 

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

Shen is disrupted when: learning true meaning and background is lacking consistent inward directed awareness?

 

 

The original wording is 必心志紛、而神明亂.   It roughly means sure will lead to the heart having many objectives/desires and the clear mind is confused or the clarity of the mind is disrupted.  Modern people writing classical Chinese.  Google cannot handle.

 

[Sahaja]

Yes it is likely more dangerous to practice things that have effects with a physical basis in shared reality to them than ones based on imagination and visualization that you get out of a book.  Unfortunately what you get out of something is usually related to how much of yourself you put into it.
 

Practices that have effects in physical reality each day are actually quite fun to do. The fun is in exploring the path, knowing there is always something there you don't fully understand,, not in sitting at what you think is the destination pontificating.   As the DDJ says knowledge is over rated. Thinking you know the answer stops any further growth.  Curiosity and  humility fuel continued growth. 
 

 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

The original wording is 必心志紛、而神明亂.   It roughly means sure will lead to the heart having many objectives/desires and the clear mind is confused or the clarity of the mind is disrupted.  Modern people writing classical Chinese.  Google cannot handle.

 

 

The character for confused or disrupted?  亂 ?

 

The conditions which produce this phenomena are the focus of my question.  Would you please post a larger section of the original wording?  If possible, it would be very helpful for me to see it in the original formatting.  For example:  if it's formatted in columns, I would like to see that including the line breaks.  If not, I would like to see the sentence and paragraph structure.  Please and thank you?

 

13 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Cultivating for Tao is the opposite, if one read through many classics, knowing the true meaning and backgrounds, but forget to looking within and staying within, then knowledge becomes wider but one's Shen is disrupted.

 

^^ This ^^ is the part I am most interested in, but including the characters both preceding it and following it ( in the original formatting ) would be very much appreciated. 

 

Edited August 15 by Daniel