DDJ Chapter 48

[Master Logray]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

The character for confused or disrupted?  亂 ?

 

The conditions which produce this phenomena are the focus of my question.  Would you please post a larger section of the original wording?  If possible, it would be very helpful for me to see it in the original formatting.  For example:  if it's formatted in columns, I would like to see that including the line breaks.  If not, I would like to see the sentence and paragraph structure.  Please and thank you?

 

 

^^ This ^^ is the part I am most interested in, but including the characters both preceding it and following it ( in the original formatting ) would be very much appreciated. 

 

 

Wait.

[Forestgreen]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

If you practice a waidan process and achieve results ( without knowing the classic terminology ) then were shown a neidan process with a more instructional terminology, would you say they were interrelated?

No. 

I would say that they resulted in similar/ same results (if that is what you is getting at) without having any interrelation. 

Edited August 15 by Forestgreen

[Cobie]

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

so i looked at the Goudian

I noticed it with admiration. 

 

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while he did not.

Imo which characters are the right ones to use, depends on one’s chosen path. 

 

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we are not the same.

True  , native speaker trumps. 

 

 

Edited August 15 by Cobie

[Shadow_self]

 

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there is no externally emitting light visible to others in neidan. its a fantasy. See? I gave you straight, concrete, practical answer.

 

Well I am very sure there is, and all my teachers know of it ( freeform does also)

 

Dozens of students seen it during training, and several bypassers witnessed it  outside the training setting (yes people who know nothing of internal work) 

 

And furthermore, it has a classical name , so the idea its not a thing, simply isnt true.

 

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But of course, i cannot tell what develops and follows a fantasy;)

 

I think that you honestly dont know what it is.

 

But non-experts know about this,  so im wondering why you don't, given you position yourself as an expert? 

Edited August 15 by Shadow_self

[Cobie]

Funny how a ‘serious’ thread can be started from something posted JFF (just for fun). My post quoted in the OP, was making fun of the preceding post’s use of the word ‘learn’.

 

 

Edited August 15 by Cobie

[Cobie]

.

Edited August 15 by Cobie

[Taoist Texts]

36 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Quote

there is no externally emitting light visible to others in neidan. its a fantasy. 

Well I am very sure there is, and all my teachers know of it ( freeform does also) Dozens of students seen it during training, and several bypassers witnessed it  outside the training setting (yes people who know nothing of internal work) 

oh wow,  my humble expertise fails me miserably on this exalted  topic. if only i could witness it. but i am not worthy i guess. wait! dozens of students? and several bypasssers? ah, if only one of them had that newfangled contraption on him...i heard its like a phone but can also record videos....then they could film a guy who shines like a light-bulb! and show it to me!...i think...

52 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

But non-experts know about this,  so im wondering why you don't, given you position yourself as an expert? 

oh its because i and them live on different planets;)

[Shadow_self]

Just now, Taoist Texts said:

oh wow,  my humble expertise fails me miserably on this exalted  topic. if only i could witness it. but i am not worthy i guess. wait! dozens of students? and several bypasssers? ah, if only one of them had that newfangled contraption on him...i heard its like a phone but can also record videos....then they could film a guy who shines like a light-bulb! and show it to me!...i think...

 

I believe if you had the attainments and expertise you claim, you'd not need to be shown or witness anything, 

 

You'd have experienced it for yourself. 

 

At the least, I am rather surprised you cant name this.  

[Forestgreen]

On 2024-08-14 at 4:25 PM, Daniel said:

 

The problem arises when a declaration is made: "This is the only correct way.  I know the way.  There is no other way."  That's not Daoist.  That's Christian.  

Ever read the WuZhenPian? 

Seems to have a lot of " this is the only correct way". 

 

Ever studied buddhism? A lot of dogmatic schisms there, splitting hairs and arguing about the correct interpretation. 

[Wilhelm]

15 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

that their practice is misguided, harmful and fruitless. that they are headed for a bitter disappointment, a life crisis and a psychological breakdown. but people never listen. as you know.

[Wilhelm]

Don't you think you're letting your assumptions run a bit wild there sir

[Taoist Texts]

11 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

Don't you think you're letting your assumptions run a bit wild there sir

Wilhelm i believe you are addressing me. If i offended you or anyone else i apologize and promise to try and not do it again. I say to try because people nowadays get offended at a drop of a hat. I never know what is gonna offend them next . (sigh)

 

45 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

you'd not need to be shown or witness anything, 

so no proof? i thought so;)

46 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

At the least, I am rather surprised you cant name this.

sorry, i agree it is a sad sad situation (also is the hardest word)

[Wilhelm]

9 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Wilhelm i believe you are addressing me. If i offended you or anyone else i apologize and promise to try and not do it again. I say to try because people nowadays get offended at a drop of a hat. I never know what is gonna offend them next . (sigh)

Yeah to be honest I thought it was a bit silly to write off a couple of practitioners I've seen you have lively debates with on topics relating to various levels of practice.

 

It's fine to disagree, but, have you ever wondered why you seem to disagree with just about everyone on this topic?

[Taoist Texts]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm said:

 

It's fine to disagree, but, have you ever wondered why you seem to disagree with just about everyone on this topic?

which topic? a guy shining like a light bulb for all to see?

 

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

it was a bit silly

i am plenty silly for not believing in light-bulb guys;) did you see one?

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

No. 

I would say that they resulted in similar/ same results (if that is what you is getting at) without having any interrelation. 

 

I think they're inter-related in this way: 

• Physical cultivation can be understood in the terms used to describe inner cultivation.  
• Inner cultivation can be understood in the terms used to describe the physical cultivation.
• The terms used in both cases are metaphors.
• If so, it is highly likely that there are significant over-arching corresponding principles which are governing both waidan and neidan such that practicing either one benefits the practicing the other.

If so, and "spirit" is ( among other things ) a collection of these overarching principles, there should be, in theory, a technique which utilizes both simultaneously.  I think that is ( at least one ) of the ideas being expressed in DDJ48.  However, I cannot deny my own bias, because, my religion ( not daosim ) encourages this sort of practice.  So... I like it.  It makes me happy to see something like this, and to learn about Chin-Dahn.

 

[Shadow_self]

33 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

so no proof? i thought so;)

 

Do you think im trying to prove something to you?  My friend, you misunderstand me  

 

33 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sorry, i agree it is a sad sad situation

 

Yes its a pretty unfortunate situation . Would you like time to consult your sources?

 

It'd be nice if you could bring back something for a wholesome discussion later  

[Wilhelm]

16 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

which topic?

This one:

16 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

that their practice is misguided, harmful and fruitless. that they are headed for a bitter disappointment, a life crisis and a psychological breakdown. but people never listen. as you know.

 

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

there is right way of doing any thing and there is a wrong way of doing the same thing. and the way to know if it is right or wrong is to look at  what you get.

I've seen you talk at length about what you've gotten out of these arts to both Awaken and Freeform, and they in turn shared their own results with you.  So to then follow this with

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

if you spend half of your life on doing something and get nothing in return it means everything was done wrongly alas. 

???

31 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

i am plenty silly 

So long as we're just joking here, it's all good.  You just seemed to be serious, so I wanted to check 

[Shadow_self]

To help bring the thread back to DDJ verse 48,

 

Some of you might be wondering why I keep harping on about the white room and what it means

 

Basically, the experience  can comes about during Zuowang (with some other factors in place)  and its a sign that the five spirits are attempting to come together

 

Once this happens you may also begin to contact an aspect of congenital conciousness that in turn, leads to various layers of the acquired mind (accumulated stuff) being shed, and the Xing begins to change

 

Consider this in light of verse 48

 

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To learn,
One accumulates day by day.
To study Tao,
One reduces day by day.
Through reduction and further reduction
One reaches non-action,
And everything is acted upon.
Therefore, one often wins over the world
Through non-action.
Through action, one may not win over the world

 

Hoping that illustrates the relevance of the matter  

[Taoist Texts]

8 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Do you think im trying to prove something to you?

yes i fantasize about it all the time

10 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Would you like time to consult your sources?

oh i just did, unfortunately there are no fantasy light bulb guys there. so far.

12 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

It'd be nice if you could bring back something for a wholesome discussion later

of course! i am sure i can wholesomely  fantasize something up . in the mean time there are more pies and electrical zappers on the market

10 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

So long as we're just joking here, it's all good.  You just seemed to be serious, so I wanted to check 

i am serious on that matter. i do believe thats what happened to them. that said i never intended to belabor the issue if not asked about it. i have nothing to add about this publicly. 

12 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

their own results with you.

i would like to stop talking about them personally  because it is not nice to do so behind their backs.

 

but if someone reports that he practices neidan and all he got is seeing lights, then unfortunately that is not a neidan results. plenty qigongers etc see lights. lights per se are useless.

 

 

[Shadow_self]

 

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oh i just did, unfortunately there are no fantasy light bulb guys there. so far.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you see it now?  

Edited August 15 by Shadow_self

[Cobie]

 

 

 

Do you see it now? 

Oh yes, I do see it now! Thank you so much for explaining that.
That proofs it! Definitely. If someone can draw a picture of it, then it has been proven to exist.
Of course, why did I not see that before. 

 

Edited August 16 by Cobie

[Nintendao]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

but if someone reports that he practices neidan and all he got is seeing lights, then unfortunately that is not a neidan results. plenty qigongers etc see lights. lights per se are useless.

Not gonna lie some of the stuff they described sounds identical to when I got hit in the head doing sports, or how when people say “omg I stood up too fast” and start to faint a little bit

[Shadow_self]

7 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

Not gonna lie some of the stuff they described sounds identical to when I got hit in the head doing sports, or how when people say “omg I stood up too fast” and start to faint a little bit

 

In the case of what im talking about, unless someone else saw those lights coming out a little above your head

 

Then it is definately nothing like that 

 

Its not subtle, and its visible for anyone whos present to see it

 

But this particular thing isnt permanent,

 

Though far weirder "light stuff" start later, but thats not something we'll be discussing   

Edited August 15 by Shadow_self

[Taoist Texts]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

 

Do you see it now?  

 

 

6 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Do you think im trying to prove something to you?  My friend, you misunderstand me  

yes looks like you do

but sure, thanks, here is the full animation. it shows the monk internalizing the symbolic shining lotus bud not externalizing it for all to see. 

it is the same kind of buddhist graphics as leading the bull or the elephant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls

4 hours ago, Nintendao said:

start to faint a little bit

exactly. it is common

 

[Forestgreen]

7 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

I think

 can be understood 

 can be understood

 in theory

This is just a mental construct.

But if you find use or comfort in it, that is fine. In my path I have no use for it, but that is what floats my boat, not yours.

7 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

learn about Chin-Dahn.

 

Jin dan is an interesting subject. 

Moreso when one move beyond the metaphorical language and get down to the actual practice.