johndoe2012 Posted August 13 I had accumulated resentment, it was completely unbearable so I had to forgive. Hopefully someone will find it useful 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted August 27 Forgiveness is not as easy as saying "I forgive you". It takes acceptance for the actions that happened. It takes letting go of the actions done to one. It isn't easy to let go. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted August 27 I once watched a film about forgiveness that was very profound and moving but disturbing - Rubaru Roshni by Svati Chakravarty Bhatkal. Highly recommended! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted August 28 (edited) can also become a slippery slope of misplaced or one sided idealism, (that could be taken advantage of per repetitions of or variations of an offense if a two way street of wise interactions are not included at some point) Edited August 28 by old3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted September 4 On 27.8.2024 at 10:31 PM, Tommy said: Forgiveness is not as easy as saying "I forgive you". It takes acceptance for the actions that happened. It takes letting go of the actions done to one. It isn't easy to let go. You are right but what is the alternative? Holding on to resentment towards the other destroys your peace of mind. Better to let go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted September 4 On 28.8.2024 at 10:45 AM, old3bob said: can also become a slippery slope of misplaced or one sided idealism, (that could be taken advantage of per repetitions of or variations of an offense if a two way street of wise interactions are not included at some point) Yes. Dumb forgiveness, becoming a push over and people pleaser just to get peace. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted September 4 1 hour ago, johndoe2012 said: You are right but what is the alternative? Holding on to resentment towards the other destroys your peace of mind. Better to let go. It isn't just resentment. It also has the memories of the actions that was done to one. It is hard to let go of trauma and blame. Yes, better to let it go. Easier said than done. My family has a line of dementia. Am looking forward to forgetting things that has happened and becoming a new person. LOL. What we are is .. the accumulation of all we have thought. To see where we are now, we look to the past. To see where we will go, we look at the present. To forgive requires change in oneself. To overcome the habits that we have grown into. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted September 4 42 minutes ago, Tommy said: It isn't just resentment. It also has the memories of the actions that was done to one. It is hard to let go of trauma and blame. Yes, better to let it go. Easier said than done. My family has a line of dementia. Am looking forward to forgetting things that has happened and becoming a new person. LOL. What we are is .. the accumulation of all we have thought. To see where we are now, we look to the past. To see where we will go, we look at the present. To forgive requires change in oneself. To overcome the habits that we have grown into. Lol. Yes difficult to let go... If very difficult this meditation is not enough. Although I find it powerful in the sense that it dissolved part of the sense of self. Trauma can run very deep. I still carry wounds from something that happened more than 40 years ago. Letting go all the time in different ways to be free of that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted September 4 (edited) 7 hours ago, johndoe2012 said: … Dumb forgiveness, becoming a push over and people pleaser just to get peace. Yes, I prefer, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me“ (idiom). Also to be considered imo, when does it become ‘aiding and abetting’. Edited September 4 by Cobie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted September 5 (edited) 12 hours ago, Cobie said: Yes, I prefer, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me“ (idiom). Also to be considered imo, when does it become ‘aiding and abetting’. In my view forgiveness is not about letting people fool you. It's more about understanding why someone tried to fool you, e.g. that this may had been a coping mechanism they developed to survive in a tough environment in the past. Btw I'm not saying this cancels personal responsibility, or all is good because he/she had a difficult childhood, but understanding that there are causal links of events that make some behaviours likely. Then perhaps forgiving is forgiving them for not doing the hard work of changing these patterns that may had helped them survive once but are no longer needed for their survival in their relationships. So in my view, forgiving is about accepting the human condition. Edited September 5 by snowymountains 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted September 5 Perhaps a way to see it is that snake is biting us not because it is bad - concepts of ethics like good or bad are not a good framework to describe what is happening, it simply bites us because of its instincts. Now, we may understand that the snake is simply following its instincts and perhaps not be angry at the snake, as well as understand that good/evil is not a good framework to cast this but this doesn't mean we'll stay close to venomous snakes. This is a state of "snake-forgiveness". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted September 7 On 9/5/2024 at 4:23 AM, snowymountains said: Perhaps a way to see it is that snake is biting us not because it is bad - concepts of ethics like good or bad are not a good framework to describe what is happening, it simply bites us because of its instincts. Now, we may understand that the snake is simply following its instincts and perhaps not be angry at the snake, as well as understand that good/evil is not a good framework to cast this but this doesn't mean we'll stay close to venomous snakes. This is a state of "snake-forgiveness". That reminds me of the story of the scorpion and the frog. The scorpion asked the frog to give him a lift across the pond. The frog said no because the scorpion would sting him and he would die. The scorpion said if that happened then they would both die. So, the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the pond. Along the way, the scorpion stung the frog. The frog ask why did you do that cause now we both will die. The scorpion said do not blame me because it is my instinct to do so. What does this mean??? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted September 8 15 hours ago, Tommy said: That reminds me of the story of the scorpion and the frog. The scorpion asked the frog to give him a lift across the pond. The frog said no because the scorpion would sting him and he would die. The scorpion said if that happened then they would both die. So, the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the pond. Along the way, the scorpion stung the frog. The frog ask why did you do that cause now we both will die. The scorpion said do not blame me because it is my instinct to do so. What does this mean??? It means understand why a behaviour is happening, forgive/don't cast it into a good/evil framework - for your peace of mind but also protect your self from the said behaviour. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted September 8 karma per-se does not "forgive" per any human standards....but it can be mitigated by human acts. (or divine acts) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
