How do you eat?

[snowymountains]

32 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

They are not im afraid.

 

These  systems of  practices  and methods are definately secret, (though some are scattered around in bits)  and  really not something I wish to discuss to be honest.

 

What you mentioned  are more modern presentations,  mostly after the reform which reorientated things towards Vipassana 

 

The tantric systems that were more open prior to the current presentation, use things like external and internal alchemy, magic, yantra, mantra, mudra, rituals,  and require initation past the basic entry stages. 

 

External alchemy plays a role in moving towards moving away from food down the line. But im not going to get into that here

 

 

I am 100% certain

 

 

Thats not true. Its also beyond the scope of this thread, so lets not delve into this . Im really not open to discussing this type of practice as much as I am to the daoist side of things, which has far greater public accessibility

 

Nothing personal, its just not something I wish to get into  

 

 

You don't need to expand where & with whom you practice, it's not why I responded.

 

What you say is not the case though, Theravada has zero secret/esoteric teachings. A teacher is needed for practical purposes, just like a trainer is needed for sports, but the teachings are not secret.

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

What you say is not the case though, Theravada has zero secret/esoteric teachings. A teacher is needed for practical purposes, just like a trainer is needed for sports, but the teachings are not secret.

 

 

One thing you should know about me, is I dont speak on matters related to these topics that I dont have direct experience and knowledge of. 

 

Im honest to the point it gets me in trouble (a lot)

 

This book just gives an account into some of how certain lines of practice were pushed away from the public eye.

 

Also none of the writings on this topic even begin to touch the periphials of what some of the non-public lineages teach. 

 

I will repeat that.  Theres is little to nothing you will find on the non public aspects of these traditions written down.

 

 At best you will find scattered bits of practices that remain in pockets, and misinterpretations (like the Dhammakaya).  Its just not a public thing and is very hard to access (for good reason too) 

 

All you can find in the public about this is only the tip  of an iceberg peeking above the water. 

 

The real thing is beneath the sea (hidden) and is far more bizarre that you'd be willing to even consider. Far more bizarre than people lighting things on fire with their hands, or sending an electrical current into someone. 

 

That would be childs play compared to some of this stuff to be very honest

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Esoteric_Buddhism

 

Enjoy the rabbit hole,  and lets stop derailing the thread now (please) 

[Sherman Krebbs]

On 26.8.2024 at 12:44 PM, NaturaNaturans said:

When, what kind of food, how often etc. l am asking both because ive gained some weight, and because I want to be healthier.

 

My recommendation:  Vegetarian + no sugary foods, except fruits (i.e. no candy, donuts, milkshakes etc.).  You can eat as much as you want and you will lose weight (though you'll never really feel full). Plus you will feel great. Eat lots of plums/prunes and apricots, especially in the beginning, to keep your system in order.  

 

[liminal_luke]

The thing about secrets is that they are secret.

[johndoe2012]

Losing weight is a matter of consuming less calories than you are used to plus exercising. 

 

Over time fat will be burned and weight goes down. 

 

For breakfast you can eg eat half amount or skip a meal at lunch time. 

[snowymountains]

3 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

One thing you should know about me, is I dont speak on matters related to these topics that I dont have direct experience and knowledge of. 

 

Im honest to the point it gets me in trouble (a lot)

 

This book just gives an account into some of how certain lines of practice were pushed away from the public eye.

 

Also none of the writings on this topic even begin to touch the periphials of what some of the non-public lineages teach. 

 

I will repeat that.  Theres is little to nothing you will find on the non public aspects of these traditions written down.

 

 At best you will find scattered bits of practices that remain in pockets, and misinterpretations (like the Dhammakaya).  Its just not a public thing and is very hard to access (for good reason too) 

 

All you can find in the public about this is only the tip  of an iceberg peeking above the water. 

 

The real thing is beneath the sea (hidden) and is far more bizarre that you'd be willing to even consider. Far more bizarre than people lighting things on fire with their hands, or sending an electrical current into someone. 

 

That would be childs play compared to some of this stuff to be very honest

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Esoteric_Buddhism

 

Enjoy the rabbit hole,  and lets stop derailing the thread now (please) 

 

I'm aware of this, which is why I asked if it's an offshoot, this one is considered a "heresy", it's not the Theravada tradition that's practiced in most monasteries, only few, which are also disconnected from the rest of the monasteries. They also have some tantric-like practices like bringing a visualisation of the Buddha inside their bodies etc.

 

It may not matter if you enjoy the practice, but it's not representative of Theravada Buddhism, where indeed there are no secrets.

[snowymountains]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

The thing about secrets is that they are secret.

Or they don't exist

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

Or they don't exist

 

True.  I suppose the trick is to determine the credibility of the secret bearer.  As someone whose profession requires interpersonal intelligence, you´re likely good at making that determination.  I don´t entirely follow all of @Shadow_self´s argument but, personally, I believe he´s attempting to convey his experience honestly.

[snowymountains]

9 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

True.  I suppose the trick is to determine the credibility of the secret bearer.  As someone whose profession requires interpersonal intelligence, you´re likely good at making that determination.  I don´t entirely follow all of @Shadow_self´s argument but, personally, I believe he´s attempting to convey his experience honestly.

 

He's sincere, don't question that, but only few monasteries engage in this practice. They're isolated and it's not representative of Theravada in the region.

 

If anything that's the beauty of Theravada, practice is all based on Suttas, teacher commentary more or less follows Buddhagosha's work.

Though minor deviations do of course occur, there are no secrets.

 

Practices that were created later eg tantric practices were not incorporated into Theravada, nor has it incorporated elements from other spiritual practices ( eg from Taoism ), it's in a sense as close to the Buddha's teachings as it gets after thousands of years have passed since then 

Edited August 28 by snowymountains

[snowymountains]

In any case, each can follow whatevs they want, minor in the region , major in the region, whatevs, it's a personal choice.

 

Someone can visit the region and make their own mind on what most monasteries practice and even ask them if everything is in the Suttas.

 

My main point is desensitisation techniques are usually not a good fit for personal meditation practices, even if one happens to be in the Suttas.

[Shadow_self]

41 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

I'm aware of this, which is why I asked if it's an offshoot, this one is considered a "heresy", it's not the Theravada tradition that's practiced in most monasteries, only few, which are also disconnected from the rest of the monasteries.

 

Thats precisely the point, and precisely what people who arent privvy to these traditions dont understand. 

 

These teachings have been deliberately kept away from most of the monastic community. Except a  select few

 

Theres actually an account of one person on this board who was  literally pulled out of a monastery in Myanmar and brought into one of these "sister" lines of practice.

 

I say sister as its not what I do, but he has some strikinly similar things to say about Jhana, alchemy, transmigration, siddhi, and whats expected of people when they practice

 

 

The private facing ones are just that.. You can see as mentioned, the majority of the monastics are excluded.

 

You're very  welcome to disbelieve me if you want, no problem. It doesnt impact me

 

You're also welome to disbelieve crosbys account of the historical events that took place

 

Quote

They also have some tantric-like practices like bringing a visualisation of the Buddha inside their bodies etc.

 

Sorry, but thats not true. There is no visualization practice in these lines im talking about

 

That is a modern misinterpretations such as the Dhammakaya and various other nonsensical misinterpretations of the fragments left behind

 

Quote

It may not matter if you enjoy the practice, but it's not representative of Theravada Buddhism, where indeed there are no secrets.

 

It doesnt matter to me, but it doesnt matter because I know what I have access to. Ive seen the proof of it, and thats enough

 

The fact others dont isnt really my concern

 

I just help where people wish for it, and are sincere in asking. Thats all

[snowymountains]

21 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Thats precisely the point, and precisely what people who arent privvy to these traditions dont understand. 

 

These teachings have been deliberately kept away from most of the monastic community. Except a  select few

 

They may pitch it in that way but they're very minor and are considered a heresy by other monastics, and hence mostly isolated by other monastics.

 

21 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

That is a modern misinterpretations such as the Dhammakaya and various other nonsensical misinterpretations of the fragments left behind

 

 

It's the second time you mention dhammakaya when you respond to me.

Is there a reason you do that ?

 

Because for sure I've never mentioned dhammakaya nor am I affiliated.

 

21 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

It doesnt matter to me, but it doesnt matter because I know what I have access to.

It's not a matter of access to secret teachings, because they don't exist.

 

Theravada is a very open tradition.

 

21 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Ive seen the proof of it, and thats enough

 

Proof of what ? The goal of Buddhism generally and also Theravada is Nibbana.

 

In any case someone can visit and see with their own eyes, or talk to a Bhikkhu from the region and ask.

Edited August 28 by snowymountains

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

One thing you should know about me, is I dont speak on matters related to these topics that I dont have direct experience and knowledge of. 

 

Im honest to the point it gets me in trouble (a lot)

 

This book just gives an account into some of how certain lines of practice were pushed away from the public eye.

 

Also none of the writings on this topic even begin to touch the periphials of what some of the non-public lineages teach. 

 

I will repeat that.  Theres is little to nothing you will find on the non public aspects of these traditions written down.

 

 At best you will find scattered bits of practices that remain in pockets, and misinterpretations (like the Dhammakaya).  Its just not a public thing and is very hard to access (for good reason too) 

 

All you can find in the public about this is only the tip  of an iceberg peeking above the water. 

 

The real thing is beneath the sea (hidden) and is far more bizarre that you'd be willing to even consider. Far more bizarre than people lighting things on fire with their hands, or sending an electrical current into someone. 

 

That would be childs play compared to some of this stuff to be very honest

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Esoteric_Buddhism

 

Enjoy the rabbit hole,  and lets stop derailing the thread now (please) 

 

Aside from someone's  response that everything in a secret tradition must be publicly known        I found this very interesting

 

" Cousins sees the practice of Southern Esoteric Buddhism as being defined by the mapping of inner and outer worlds, and calls it 'tantro-kabbalistic' mysticism "

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

The thing about secrets is that they are secret.

 

SHHHhhhhhhh !   Dont tell people that ! 

[Cobie]

The secret is there is no secret. 
 

 

Edited August 28 by Cobie

[Shadow_self]

3 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

They may pitch it in that way but they're very minor and are considered a heresy by other monastics, and hence mostly isolated by other monastics.

 

 It should give you pause for thought then why there was a Weizza teacher pulling out select students from a monastery in Myanmar 

 

(Hint, because its secret)

 

How Theravada ended up in the current  state is political, and the subject of  Crosbys book (and some others too)

 

Go and ask her about it. Shes definately well versed on the  political history of it, if nothing else

 

Quote

It's the second time you mention dhammakaya when you respond to me.

Is there a reason you do that ?

 

Because for sure I've never mentioned dhammakaya nor am I affiliated.

 

The types of visualization practices you mentioned are amongst their tradition (And others) 

 

There are none in the practice im talking about

 

Quote

It's not a matter of access to secret teachings, because they don't exist.

 

Actually, they do.  You just arent aware of them unfortunately

 

This is basically an argument  coming from bounded rationaility. You have incomplete information on the matter

 

To quote lukes earlier point: The thing about secrets is, They're secret

 

Quote

Theravada is a very open tradition.

 

Proof of what ? The goal of Buddhism generally and also Theravada is Nibbana.

 

Theres are some highly attained indiviuals that amongst many other things that emit visible light as a sign of their attainment that would disagree that it is an open tradition (freeform also mentioned this several times in his tradition)

 

I am not joking, nor being smart, nor being sarcastic. 

 

I am being as serious as can be (and already exhausted myself having to explain this to someone else earlier this month)

 

I am aware of far more things that are completely reality bending and mind breaking, but that is not up for discussion unfortunately

 

What you are talking about is the exoteric, public facing tradition. Its not the whole picture (not at all)

 

Im  genuinely sorry if thats hard for you to swallow. But that is the reality of the situation, whether you want to accept it or not

 

Quote

In any case someone can visit and see with their own eyes, or talk to a Bhikkhu from the region and ask.

 

I have, and everything I said above still stands

 

I you wish to continue, please consider taking  it below, though if you are going to insist on making definative claims about a practice  and tradition you have no information about, while I'm providing you information that others would be rather glad to get, you might find my reluctance to respond waivers

 

 

 

Edited August 28 by Shadow_self

[snowymountains]

17 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 It should give you pause for thought then why there was a Weizza teacher pulling out select students from a monastery in Myanmar 

 

(Hint, because its secret)

 

How Theravada ended up in the current  state is political, and the subject of  Crosbys book (and some others too)

 

Go and ask her about it. Shes definately well versed on the  political history of it, if nothing else

 

 

The types of visualization practices you mentioned are amongst their tradition (And others) 

 

There are none in the practice im talking about

 

 

Actually, they do.  You just arent aware of them unfortunately

 

This is basically an argument  coming from bounded rationaility. You have incomplete information on the matter

 

To quote lukes earlier point: The thing about secrets is, They're secret

 

 

Theres are some highly attained indiviuals that amongst many other things that emit visible light as a sign of their attainment that would disagree that it is an open tradition (freeform also mentioned this several times in his tradition)

 

I am not joking, nor being smart, nor being sarcastic. 

 

I am being as serious as can be (and already exhausted myself having to explain this to someone else earlier this month)

 

I am aware of far more things that are completely reality bending and mind breaking, but that is not up for discussion unfortunately

 

What you are talking about is the exoteric, public facing tradition. Its not the whole picture (not at all)

 

Im  genuinely sorry if thats hard for you to swallow. But that is the reality of the situation, whether you want to accept it or not

 

 

I have, and everything I said above still stands

 

I you wish to continue, please consider taking  it below, though if you are going to insist on making definative claims about a practice  and tradition you have no information about, while I'm providing you information that others would be rather glad to get, you might find my reluctance to respond waivers

 

 

 

 

Sorry but what you say is completely misinformed on Theravada, it represents a small sect, which others have isolated, not Theravada, which is completely open and has no secrets.

 

You sincerely believe you're handing over some trusted secret information that others would be glad to get, I get that. But what you say is simply not true.

 

Suggestions on how I should be responding are not welcome, sorry, I'll call a spade a spade, if you don't like that that's fine.

Perhaps patronising works well to "others who are rather glad" to get all this secret information but you're knocking on the wrong door here with these tactics.

[Nungali]

Is it duel  ... or non duel  ? 

 

 

[Shadow_self]

53 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Aside from someone's  response that everything in a secret tradition must be publicly known       

 

I lose nothing by them being unable to accept a truth

 

I tend to give everyone a chance until the reasoning becomes as unusual as you've mentioned

 

At that point, I just move on

 

53 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I found this very interesting

 

" Cousins sees the practice of Southern Esoteric Buddhism as being defined by the mapping of inner and outer worlds, and calls it 'tantro-kabbalistic' mysticism "

 

Feel free to post about it in the PPD link we could have a discussion on something thats caught your eye

[snowymountains]

7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Is it duel  ... or non duel  ? 

 

 

 

Personally I don't care about a duel.

 

I don't care much about that practice either, whoever wants to practice it, they go ahead and practice it, it's a personal choice.

 

It's just not Theravada by any measure, it's a small sect.

 

Theravada is 100% open, with no secrets.

[snowymountains]

For anyone interested the actual Wikipedia page on Theravada looks pretty ok https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada , it describes the history, the textual basis, practices.

 

Offshoots/small sects which deviate significantly simply aren't representative of Theravada, they're can claim what they want to claim of course and whoever wants to practice them they're free to do so.

But Theravada monastics are also free to mostly prefer to have nothing to do with them.

 

From the wiki 

 

Quote

Modern Theravāda derives from the Mahāvihāra order, a Sri Lankan branch of the Vibhajjavāda tradition, which is, in turn, a sect of the Indian Sthavira Nikaya. This tradition began to establish itself in Sri Lanka from the 3rd century BCE onwards. It was in Sri Lanka that the Pāli Canon was written down and the school's commentary literature developed

 

In short, modern Theravada is as close to the original form as can be,  forms that emerged with later medieval additions and took different paths have been reformed away and are now minor sects.

 

Theravada is open, no secrets, and that's the beauty of it.

Anyone can follow whatevs they want, even if it's practiced in just one monastery.

 

What is entirely misleading though is to call an 100% open tradition as secret.

Edited August 29 by snowymountains

[Kojiro]

a friendly reminder that this thread is about food, not about theravada, so please let's stay on topic

[Shadow_self]

16 minutes ago, Kojiro said:

a friendly reminder that this thread is about food, not about theravada, so please let's stay on topic

 

This was already addressed several posts back - I even created a space for it. 

 

Unfortunately that went ignored (as expected)

 

To get back on topic

 

I usually eat once or twice a day, but as mentioned, its very much a taxing thing while going through this phase of training

 

 If you are interested in what I eat : Mostly vegan food with a little lean beef

 

 

[snowymountains]

4 hours ago, Kojiro said:

a friendly reminder that this thread is about food, not about theravada, so please let's stay on topic

 

Indeed, after those secret books at Amazon.com and secret Wikipedia pages, which nobody really asked for, on a (non-existent) secret food meditation, a return to the topic is the only sensible course.

 

A good way to do the carbs diet, or any diet, combined with exercise is a combination of a Fitbit or a Garmin coupled with myfitnesspal, the later for accurate calorie tracking.

Eyeballing the calories of a portion is more misleading than we perceive.

 

As not all days are made The same, the sports watch will also show daily a very good estimate of how much calorie burn happened during the day, which is important to keep an eye on as the daily calorie deficit needs to be moderate, not excessive to avoid exhaustion.

[Cobie]

 

On 26/08/2024 at 11:44 AM, NaturaNaturans said:

… what kind of food, how often etc. … to be healthier.

For people like me that are underweight, I recommend some unsalted mixed nuts daily. 
 

 

Edited August 29 by Cobie