Mark Foote Posted October 12 (edited) On 10/11/2024 at 1:46 PM, Thrice Daily said: I’m pretty sure Zen Buddhism was attributed to Bodidharma an Indian Prince who made his way to China and influenced the monks there to do exercises as they were weak from sitting… Wikipedia describes the derivation of the word “Zen” as follows: The term Zen is derived from the Japanese pronunciation of the Middle Chinese word chán, an abbreviation of chánnà, which is a Chinese transliteration of the Sanskrit word dhyāna (“meditation”). Yogapedia provides a definition of “dhyana” based on the Sanskrit roots of the word: Dhyana is a Sanskrit word meaning “meditation.” It is derived from the root words, dhi, meaning “receptacle” or “the mind”; and yana, meaning “moving” or “going.” (dhyana, dec. 9 2017, “Yogapedia”, authorship not ascribed; https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5284/dhyana) Dhyana could therefore be said to translate literally as “mind moving”. The sixth patriarch of Zen in China pointed directly to the mind moving, in a case from the “Gateless Gate” collection: Not the Wind, Not the Flag Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: “The flag is moving.” The other said: “The wind is moving.” The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: “Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.” ((The Gateless Gate, by Ekai (called Mu-mon), tr. Nyogen Senzaki and Paul Reps [1934], at sacred-texts.com)) (Not the Wind, Not the Flag) Yes, the sixth patriarch was a successor of Bodhidharma, so at least as far as a line of succession Bodhidharma was the first. However, the same teaching about the mind was alive and well in China before Bodhidharma, as in the famous poem by the Buddhist monk Fuxi: The empty hand grasps the hoe handle Walking along, I ride the ox The ox crosses the wooden bridge The bridge is flowing, the water is still (“Zen’s Chinese Heritage”, tr. & © 2000 by Andy Ferguson, p 2) "The bridge is flowing" is the very same "mind is moving" of the sixth patriarch! Quote Vippasana I was told were the original practical basic teachings of the Buddha, (well there have been many Buddhas) Really though it is just breath and sensation so I believe this would be correct. There are no statues, no candles, flowers, scented water and so on. Just quiet individual practice. Its great. About that: In one of the sermons of the Pali Canon, Gautama the Buddha described “seven (types of) persons existing in the world”. Here are the first two: And which, monks, is the person who is freed both ways? As to this, monks, some person is abiding, having apprehended with the person those peaceful Deliverances which are incorporeal having transcended material shapes; and having seen by means of wisdom his cankers are utterly destroyed. I, monks, do not say of this (person) that there is something to be done through diligence. What is the reason for this? It has been done by (them) through diligence, (they) could not become negligent. And which, monks, is the person who is freed by means of intuitive wisdom? As to this, monks, some person is abiding without having apprehended with the person those peaceful Deliverances which are incorporeal having transcended material shapes; yet, having seen by means of wisdom (their) cankers are utterly destroyed. This, monks, is called the person who is freed by means of intuitive wisdom. I, monks, do not say of this (person) that there is something to be done through diligence. What is the reason for this? It has been done by (them) through diligence, (they) could not become negligent… (MN 70 [Pali Text Society vol. 2 pp 151-154]; more on “The Deliverances”, DN 15 Mahanidanasutta, Pali Text Society DN ii section 35 pp 68-69; pronouns replaced, emphasis added) There are schools of modern Buddhism that regard concentration (the "peaceful Deliverances") as an ancillary practice in the attainment of wisdom, as a useful precursor to the attainment of insight. In the sermon above, Gautama acknowledged that there are indeed those who are “freed by means of intuitive wisdom”. Such “persons” are freed in spite of their not having experienced the “the peaceful Deliverances…”, but so far as I know Gautama did not teach a path to such a freedom. The paths that he did teach, eight-fold for the learner and ten-fold for the adept, both included “right concentration” among the elements. (from a piece I hope to post soon to my own site) What I'm saying there is that it's not that insight doesn't exist, but there really is no teaching about a path solely to "intuitive wisdom" in the Pali Canon, the most historically accurate record of the teachings of Gautama the Buddha. Vipassana is a modern invention. That doesn't say that the practices advocated by Vipassana teachers aren't derived in part from Buddhist teachings, or that they aren't useful to some people, to some degree. However, to represent that there's a path in Gautama's teaching to a freedom through "intuitive wisdom" I believe is a misrepresentation. Edited October 12 by Mark Foote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrice Daily Posted October 12 (edited) It would be interesting to know how far back the history of Vippasana goes, all I know is that it was preserved for some time in Burma and for many years was not really known about outside of this. I’d like to know to be honest. The physical practice itself is so simplistic only breath and sensation. Just see, I mean sure phenomena comes and goes but really, only this breath and sensation. It seems like the purest concentration practice there can be for the human. is there purer and even less convoluted practice. Something simpler than breath and sensation as an object of single pointed concentration. it just stood to reason to be that surely this is one of the worlds very oldest practices. my mind fails to grasp that it could possibly be a modern invention. even if somebody relatively modern thought they invented it. Do you see what I’m driving at, I’d love to know more if you care to share. Eclecticly Speaking Edited October 12 by Thrice Daily Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted October 14 On 10/12/2024 at 4:18 PM, Thrice Daily said: It would be interesting to know how far back the history of Vippasana goes, all I know is that it was preserved for some time in Burma and for many years was not really known about outside of this. In modern days, the three probably most popular approaches to the development of liberating insight in the Theravāda tradition are taught by Mahāsi Sayādaw, S.N. Goenka and Pa Auk Sayādaw respectively. Of these approaches to insight, the one that was the first to have a widespread impact on meditation practice in East Asia as well as in the West is the method taught by the Burmese monk Mahāsi Sayādaw (1904-1982). Characteristic for the Mahāsi method is that it dispenses with the formal development of mental tranquillity. The main meditation technique in this tradition requires applying mental labels to what is experienced throughout meditation practice in order to sharpen clear recognition. The basic mode of practice during sitting meditation is to observe the ‘rising’ and ‘falling’ motion of the abdomen caused by the process of breathing. The practitioner should make a mental label of these movements, or of anything else that may happen, such as noting the sitting position in terms of ‘sitting’, or the sensation of touch created by sitting on the cushion as ‘touching’. During walking meditation the same mental labelling is used to develop distinct awareness of several parts of each step, such as ‘lifting’ of the foot, ‘putting’ it, etc. Sustained practice uncovers the mental intentions that precede any activity. After the Mahāsi method had become known for some time, the insight meditation taught by the Indian S.N. Goenka (1924), a disciple of the Burmese meditation teacher U Ba Khin (1899-1971), began to spread around the globe and has by now become what probably is the most widely taught form of insight meditation world-wide. This meditation tradition centres on observation of bodily feelings. The practice of contemplating feelings is based on the previous development of a foundation in mental tranquillity through mindfulness of breathing, to which in a standard ten days retreat the first three days of practice are dedicated. Subsequently, feelings are observed through a continuous scanning of the body in the up and downward directions, leading to a penetrative awareness of their changing nature at increasingly subtler levels. Eventually, such practice leads to an awareness of the entire spectrum of body and mind in a constantly changing flux. A method that in recent years has been able to attract ever increasing numbers of practitioners is taught by the Burmese monk Pa Auk Sayādaw (1934). This mode of practice gives considerable room to the development of concentration, in fact ideally a practitioner should develop all four absorptions with the help of each of the meditation subjects listed in the Theravāda manual Visuddhimagga. The insight approach in this tradition is based on surveying the body from the perspective of the four elements (earth, water, fire and wind), recognizable by the experience of hardness, heaviness, warmth and motion. At first these qualities are identified in relation to particular parts of the body, but eventually are seen as existing in each particle of the body. The subtle analysis undertaken in this manner is then extended to the mind, directing awareness to each aspect of the cognitive process and to discerning the conditions operative at the twelve stages of the scheme of dependent arising. As this brief survey shows, the meditative approaches to insight taught by Mahāsi Sayādaw, S.N. Goenka and Pa Auk Sayādaw vary in the actual techniques they employ. When considered from the perspective of the Satipaṭṭhāna-sutta, which forms the commonly accepted reference point for insight meditation traditions, these three modes of developing insight could be considered as being based in particular on mindfulness of bodily postures (Mahāsi), on mindfulness of feelings (Goenka); and on mindfulness of the four elements (Pa Auk), as shown in figure 1. (The Dynamics of Theravadin Insight Meditation, by Bhikkyu Analayo) On 10/12/2024 at 4:18 PM, Thrice Daily said: I’d like to know to be honest. The physical practice itself is so simplistic only breath and sensation. Just see, I mean sure phenomena comes and goes but really, only this breath and sensation. It seems like the purest concentration practice there can be for the human. is there purer and even less convoluted practice. Something simpler than breath and sensation as an object of single pointed concentration. it just stood to reason to be that surely this is one of the worlds very oldest practices. my mind fails to grasp that it could possibly be a modern invention. even if somebody relatively modern thought they invented it. Do you see what I’m driving at, I’d love to know more if you care to share. Eclecticly Speaking Suppose that you could relinquish all volition in the activity of the body, particularly in connection with inhaling and exhaling. That's just sitting, right? Nothing extra. Very simple. Not doing anything. I tell you, you can relinquish all volition in the activity of the body, if you can stay with the location of consciousness and let the gravity at that location be the source of activity. Trick is, the location of consciousness will shift and move, and you will have to exercise a presence of mind to stay awake to the location of consciousness while activity in the body is taking place. Very eclectic. Part of Gautama's way of living. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
