Asking for testimony about Neidan

[Forestgreen]

17 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

of course them and you are. but do you guys know the first rule when in a hole?

Thanks for the link, will read it.

Looked awfully dissociative at first glance, but I  am sure it will be worth the read.

 

The first rule when in a hole is "watch out for spiders".

[Cobie]

 

1 hour ago, Giles said:

…  "shadowdude" and Forestgreen are probably a lot further down this particular rabbit hole …

Spot on! That’s exactly where they are, way down a “rabbit hole”. 

(dictionary) “rabbit hole” (noun) used to refer to a bizarre, confusing, or nonsensical situation or environment, typically one from which it is difficult to extricate oneself.

 

Edited September 11 by Cobie

[Giles]

1 minute ago, Cobie said:

 

Spot on! That’s exactly where they are, way down a “rabbit hole”. 

(dictionary) “rabbit hole” (noun) used to refer to a bizarre, confusing, or nonsensical situation or environment, typically one from which it is difficult to extricate oneself.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

That's exactly what I meant...

 

[Giles]

31 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

of course them and you are. but do you guys know the first rule when in a hole?

 

Ah! 😊

 

You're very much mistaken if you imagine that I've ventured down the neidan rabbit hole after seeing what's transpired regarding it both here and elsewhere.

 

[Cobie]

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Giles said:

my guess is that "shadowdude" and Forestgreen are probably a lot further down this particular rabbit hole than you, my friend.

 

 

You might want to leave the guesses alone for today. History tells us thats not one of your strong points

 

 

Edited September 11 by Shadow_self

[Giles]

A very old joke but the whole neidan thing reminded me of it:

 

Quote

A man arrives at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks, “Religion?”

The man says, “Methodist.”

St. Peter looks down his list and says, “Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

Another man arrives at the gates of heaven. “Religion?”

“Lutheran.”

“Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

A third man arrives at the gates. “Religion?”

“Presbyterian.”

“Go to Room 11, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

The man says, “I can understand there being different rooms for different denominations, but why must I be quiet when I pass Room 8?”

St. Peter tells him, “Well, the Neidanists are in Room 8, and they think they’re the only ones here.”

 

 

Edited September 11 by Giles

[Forestgreen]

7 hours ago, Cobie said:

 confusing, 

The goal of spiritual practice is to experience reality. That sort of pop up in buddhism, daoist practice, and hindu traditions. 

If that frightens you, there are other practices available. 

If you doesn't understand it, there are teachers and texts exploring the subject.

[Forestgreen]

6 hours ago, Giles said:

A very old joke but the whole neidan thing reminded me of it:

Putting a bunch of people doing neidan in the same room?

 

They would be killing each other, presumably with electric jolts.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

55 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

Putting a bunch of people doing neidan in the same room?

 

They would be killing each other, presumably with electric jolts.

It’s the only way to find out who is really immortal and who’s not

[Nintendao]

On 9/10/2024 at 5:44 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

edging

Of course knocking on someone’s door and then running away is not a form of protection, but of harassment. In that case it would have been less about a problem in the translation than of understanding.

 

The only thing i’m left wondering is @Taoist Texts, if you have a female student, what do you tell them it is that needs to be protected?

Edited Saturday at 07:01 AM by Nintendao

[Taoist Texts]

9 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

10 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

if not proved - it is a fantasy

So, basically, you are saying what you practice and sell to people is a fantasy

of course not. We, the few chosen ones, have something mightier than proof - we have faith so for us, it is a reality. We dont care what it is for the rest of the innumerable suffering sentient beings.

38 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

@Taoist Texts, if you have a female student, what do you tell them it is that needs to be protected?

Good question. I do and i always quote a book (no speculation for us, we are not fantasists)

Quote

 

By semen we mean not the copulation semen but the pre-Heavenly prime semen, the jing. What is called the prime jing? It is the jing received at the beginning of life, when yin-yang qi congeal into one lump, just like dew collects into drops. It is hidden in heart as the yin jing, or the Heavenly life-water. When it is not sensing and moving – it is a single qi. But when it is touched and moves through the body – in liver it becomes tears; in spleen it becomes snot; in lungs it becomes snot-tears, in heart – the pulse; in kidneys – the semen. In cold times it becomes tears-snot, in hot times it becomes sweat; when a smell is heard it comes out as saliva, when a taste is tried – it flows down as spit. In general, it is defined as ‘the 7 bodily liquids are numinous and all are yin’.

HYJ

 

 

9 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

I answered that your attempt to steer the answer into a simple yes/no dichotomy doesn't work in real life. 

Firstly, 'work' was not the question. Secondly, i am  a married man and it works for me irl; i dont even  remember when i last had an ej, 8 -7 years ago? (and yes, my er is fine, the rolls in the hay with the missus are great too, thank you very much  )

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

35 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

of course not. We, the few chosen ones, have something mightier than proof - we have faith so for us, it is a reality. We dont care what it is for the rest of the innumerable suffering sentient beings.

LOL this is amazing, I can’t believe people on this site take you seriously 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

The funny thing is, when you have a legitimate practice, you don’t need any faith at all. You don’t even need to believe that it works. It works regardless of what you or others think.

[Shadow_self]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

of course not. We, the few chosen ones, have something mightier than proof - we have faith so for us, it is a reality.

 

Faith, accoding to the oxford english dictionary

 

 

Your take on the abscence of proof

 

 

No proof = fantasy (according to you)

 

Remember, these are your own words.

 

2 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

The funny thing is, when you have a legitimate practice, you don’t need any faith at all. You don’t even need to believe that it works. It works regardless of what you or others think.

 

This is why we use physical markers as a sign the transformation has stabilized.

 

No physical transformation is usually a sign the bridge between form and formless isnt connected up (that bridge is qi)

 

The Yijinjing type work is the bottom up way whereas, the less public methods of meditation are the top down way

 

Either way, you need the qi to create the change. You cannot intellectualize your way around it

[Neirong]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

We, the few chosen ones, have something mightier than proof - we have faith so for us, it is a reality.

 

Harry Potter or Tolkien fans are doing the very same thing when they gather up; they are roleplaying.

 

How is it any different to Neidan Fans who are roleplaying and it is based on faith?

 

It is funny that you go around attacking people who are actually practicing ancient arts and cultivation, based on your books/neidan faith perspective.
 

2 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

The funny thing is, when you have a legitimate practice, you don’t need any faith at all. You don’t even need to believe that it works. It works regardless of what you or others think.

People who have real first-hand experiences in cultivation are not affected by the faith, beliefs, or opinions of other people. It is not a delusion that needs constant affirmation or support. It is reality.

 

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

i always quote a book

Books can never replace a living embodiment of ancient arts, a master who has decades of skill and experience. As I am writing a book myself, there are a lot of limitations in the book's approach to knowledge, whether it becomes too general, targets a particular audience, or even simply does not check the person reading the book to meet the prerequisites necessary to understand the book content.

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 minutes ago, Neirong said:

Books can never replace a living embodiment of ancient arts, a master who has decades of skill and experience. As I am writing a book myself, there are a lot of limitations in the book's approach to knowledge, whether it becomes too general, targets a particular audience, or even simply does not check the person reading the book to meet the prerequisites necessary to understand the book content.

 

I do not believe any instructions in a book are complete. From my experience you are taught the basics from books, videos or even in person training.

 

Then, when you are ready, either in development or can be trusted, your teacher will share the complete instructions.

 

People like our friend here who swears by books only and shuns learning from a teacher will simply never have the complete instructions to develop anything.

 

Imagine having all this knowledge and secrets, then simply writing them all down for any idiot to take from a leaked pdf online.

 

[Neirong]

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

dont have it, dont need it, dont sell seminars, dont have to prove anything. i just help a chosen few to read a few books, thats all 

 

I find it admirable that you are content with so little in your life and "spiritual path."

Being the greatest neidanist, the chosen one, the holder of the secret translations of secret texts, the golden pill owner.
I could give you a hundred more titles and print out some diplomas if that is what fits your spiritual cravings. It sounds great for some, but it is cheap and affordable.

I certainly don't mind you being the greatest and the only holder of true neidan knowledge in the observable universe.

For us, it would be hard to agree or settle on something so ephemeral.

To begin with, people develop skills that can completely change their well-being and internal state. For a start, people want to awaken, take control of the subtle processes, emotions, sensations, and thoughts of their life that flow for most living beings on auto-pilot, clear themselves from energy parasites and larvae, become aware of their past lives and history, sense their soul and increase its presence, set a clear direction for evolution path in the future through many lifetimes.

They want to see the truth and become able to see spiritual entities and energy substances as physical objects.

They want to travel freely and navigate a multidimensional realm - being able on a will to exit the physical vessel and go for exploration.

Create and design mandalas, artefacts, and spells capable of affecting reality and energies.

Take control and tame spirits.

I have mentioned 0.01% of the capabilities of ancient arts practitioners.

The further you go, the higher the requirements, the more energy and mental power are harnessed, and more is needed to progress.
It is not something that is even discussed in detail with practitioners before they meet proper prerequisites and go through years of training.

[Shadow_self]

10 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I do not believe any instructions in a book are complete. From my experience you are taught the basics from books, videos or even in person training.

 

Then, when you are ready, either in development or can be trusted, your teacher will share the complete instructions.

 

Theres always bits and pieces left out, or something held back

 

As for the classics, they arent even instruction manuals. They are texts designed to augment live instruction

 

Nathan Brine recently dropped a hint about the Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ (The secret of the golden flower)

 

Theres 7 non public chapters that start to discuss some aspects of the practice, and then on top of that, theres a transmission thats required to really do the work

 

And to get that going requires a lot of pre-requisites to be in place

 

[Giles]

7 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Putting a bunch of people doing neidan in the same room?

 

They would be killing each other, presumably with electric jolts.

 

 

... or spontaneously combusting, etc...

 

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

No proof = fantasy (according to you)

of course, according to me my teaching is a fantasy to you. I totally agree.

 

now this guy

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

They want to see the truth and become able to see spiritual entities and energy substances as physical objects.

They want to travel freely and navigate a multidimensional realm - being able on a will to exit the physical vessel and go for exploration.Create and design mandalas, artefacts, and spells capable of affecting reality and energies.Take control and tame spirits.

and this guy

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

This is why we use physical markers as a sign the transformation has stabilized.

should get together and do lunch, maybe take the electro zapper along. exchange notes. see whose bizarreness is more bizarre. in  a multidimensional realm  of course. that would be fantastic!

 

5 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I can’t believe people on this site take you seriously 

nobody anywhere takes me seriously. heck, even i dont take myself seriously. so lets not overload our voltage, lets keep our amperage well isolated. resistance is futile, anyway.

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

For a start, people want to awaken, take control of the subtle processes, emotions, sensations, and thoughts of their life that flow for most living beings on auto-pilot, clear themselves from energy parasites and larvae,

 

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

Nathan Brine recently dropped a hint about the Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ (The secret of the golden flower)

Theres 7 non public chapters

oh whoa whole 7 secretest not publicest  chapters! YOO-HOO!

these peeps so funny. 10 posts on some other forum on a stretch bashing books, praising teachers, then getting all aflutter because there is a mere hint of a new old secret book. hilarious. i guess the irony is whew..flies right above their heads.

now, i would offer them to think this: a seminar-seller, with a linage, with a live famous teacher, long in the seminar-selling business...and all of a sudden he starts teasing about a book. why? what the heck he needs a book for? if this book is necessary then what nonsense he was teaching his customers before? if not necessary why he dangles it in front of their customer's noses now?

like i said i would offer them to think except seems they dont do thinking much. its too hard on them, the poor fantasists.

(The present company excluded of course)

9 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Putting a bunch of people doing neidan in the same room?They would be killing each other, presumably with electric jolts.

nah, they go to each other's seminars so can't kill a paying customer. but remember that necessary physical change? they would have a nose measuring contest, whose nose grew longer

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

If your books told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?

[Nintendao]

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

physical markers

 

I’ve only heard of normal stuff like permeation of the sphenoid sinus by hyperglycorrhachiated cerebrospinal fluid which can then be assessed for glucose content by the taste buds for whether it is of sufficient level to sustain the brain by anerobic glycolysis during prolonged voluntary NDE states.

 

Personally it sounds like an awful lot more trouble to go through than having a little faith that there are plenty of immortals already up there, who might be happy to teach a more graceful way through the gates than storming them by force.

[Shadow_self]

24 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

of course, according to me my teaching is a fantasy to you. I totally agree.

 

Well no,  According to you, what you are doing is a fantasy.

 

Lets review your words again

 

18 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

if not proved - it is a fantasy

 

Then when asked if you had proof of what your practice aims to do

 

17 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

dont have it,

 

So we arrive back at the same point 

 

You basically told everyone you're engaging in a fantasy practice, according to your own standard

 

[Shadow_self]

25 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

Personally it sounds like an awful lot more trouble to go through than having a little faith that there are plenty of immortals already up there, who might be happy to teach a more graceful way through the gates than storming them by force.

 

You're missing the point. Theres no trouble involved. Where do people keep getting this incorrect idea from?

 

These things happen  naturally as a byproduct of the practice when its done correctly

 

Its not something "aimed for" like saying oh i better have a physical dan tien. Its what happens when you are practicing correctly for long enough.

 

Its unsurprising you've not heard of them. They dont go around advertising them to the wider world

 

'Freeform mentioned quite a few of them before he went on hiatus, search through his posts if you're interested