Asking for testimony about Neidan

[Giles]

1 minute ago, Forestgreen said:

From unmanifest to manifest, shakti is split up in components ( that's describedin one of the yoga upanishads).

One possible process we are bickering about reverse ( @ChiDragon ) that process. 

It kind of involves the red "substance".

 

I'm unclear about what you're getting at here.

 

Is this a statement, or a question, or perhaps something else?

 

Thanks in anticipation of clarification. 🙏🏻

 

[Forestgreen]

Oh, that is a statement. 

A question would have ended with this little squibble >?

Since it is about the noble art of trying to produce the elixir, I will refrain from clarification.

[Giles]

3 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

Oh, that is a statement. 

A question would have ended with this little squibble >?

Since it is about the noble art of trying to produce the elixir, I will refrain from clarification.

 

Cool. 😎👍🏻

 

In that case, I'll just pop you onto my ignore list next door to Chi Dragon. 😊

 

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

so honestly, in your school - is the semen ejaculation: A) disregarded B ) discouraged C) encouraged? Its a simple mult-choice question.  

 

I believe the answer is

 

(d) All the stuff that begins stirring the jing in the first place is whats discouraged

 

No stirring - Desire reigns in

No Desire - No arousal

No Arousal - no sex

No sex - no ejaculation

 

Look at all the bolded text...all jing being "harmed". All not, "ejaculation", which is just the final "harming" of even more of it

 

So TT, the problem isnt actually the ejaculation, its a few steps back from it,

 

Nott only that, but desire isnt just limited to sex, its related to ALL of the sense faculties and emotions and habitual patterns.

 

Food, sound, taste, smell, touch, emotions, mind

 

All of it needs to be stilled

 

Celibacy wont sort that mess out, Im sorry to tell you

 

So yes, "protecting the sperm" is a terrible translation, and covers a small portion of guarding the essence

 

Id normally have expected you to know better, but then, our recent exchanges show me otherwise

[Forestgreen]

20 minutes ago, Giles said:

 

In that case, I'll just pop you onto my ignore list next door to Chi Dragon. 😊

 

@ChiDragon we are now ignore-neighbours! I promise that I will have no loud garden parties late at night! 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

all you need to do is to ask your teacher: do you have the elixir? Its a simple yes or no question.

declined to answer

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

so honestly, in your school - is the semen ejaculation: A) disregarded B ) discouraged C) encouraged? Its a simple mult-choice question.  

declined to answer

why? because a straight answers destroys the fantasy

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Ge Guolong is well versed in alchemy. 

if he has created the elixir then he is. if he has not - then he has no clue. i am well versed in pizza baking too, despite having never baked one.

 

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

The original book was DDJ/TTC, Master Huang Yuan Ji (he was very important) translated/annotate/explain it into modern classical Chinese with reference to cultivation.

there is a mix up here. Huang does have a book based on TTC 《道德经讲义》 but Ge's book is based on a different book by Huang 《乐育堂语录》 which is not based on TTC

Quote

 

I did not choose the ten discourses from Huang Yuanji’s The Oral Record of the Hall of Joyous Teaching that appear in this book at random—they are interrelated and work in concert with one another. 

https://www.shambhala.com/illuminating-the-mind-to-see-ones-nature-the-root-of-taoist-inner-practice/

 

as to Ge he has no teacher nor a linage, he is a commie academic bureaucrat with some new age mishmash books sold on the side

Quote

I have a personal interest in many different philosophical schools and religions. I do not just research Taoism, but Buddhism, as well. I am also interested in some of the masters of New Age religions. 

 

[Giles]

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

declined to answer

 

Who "declined to answer"?

[Cobie]

Sophistry is not worth answering to. 
 

 

[Giles]

Just now, Cobie said:

Sophistry is not worth answering to. 
 

 

Who's engaging in sophistry?

[Cobie]

Just now, Giles said:

 

Who's engaging in sophistry?

Imo you Giles.

[Giles]

14 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Imo you Giles.

 

So just come straight out and say it instead of trying to snipe from the sidelines.

 

[Shadow_self]

47 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

declined to answer

 

The answer is there for you TT, its just not one you like because it shows your understanding of Jing is  lacking unfortunately

 

Of course, engaging with that answer would just further dig the hole deeper. So its more convienent for you to avoid that and pretend I didnt answer right?

 

Like I said, if you're going to engage, do so honestly.

Edited September 10 by Shadow_self

[Forestgreen]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

Imo you Giles.

Beware, he might relocate you to the suburbs with me and ChiDragon.  

Neighbourhood barbecue, aprons with "kiss the cook", the whole nine yards. 

[Giles]

13 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

Beware, he might relocate you to the suburbs with me and ChiDragon.  

Neighbourhood barbecue, aprons with "kiss the cook", the whole nine yards. 

 

No need for any concern. 😊

 

Cobie was actually relocated to  the suburbs on 4th February, 2023. 🤣

 

[Cobie]

suburb + barbecue = Grill Reaper

 

Edited September 10 by Cobie

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I believe the answer is

 

(d) All the stuff that begins stirring the jing in the first place is whats discouraged

 

No stirring - Desire reigns in

No Desire - No arousal

No Arousal - no sex

No sex - no ejaculation

 

Look at all the bolded text...all jing being "harmed". All not, "ejaculation", which is just the final "harming" of even more of it

 

So TT, the problem isnt actually the ejaculation, its a few steps back from it,

 

Nott only that, but desire isnt just limited to sex, its related to ALL of the sense faculties and emotions and habitual patterns.

 

Food, sound, taste, smell, touch, emotions, mind

 

All of it needs to be stilled

 

Celibacy wont sort that mess out, Im sorry to tell you

 

So yes, "protecting the sperm" is a terrible translation, and covers a small portion of guarding the essence

 

Id normally have expected you to know better, but then, our recent exchanges show me otherwise

It really is so clear to those who know what they are talking about.

 

Which one is worse for jing, being aroused for hours and indulging in your desires while edging but not ejaculating, or getting the deed done in a few minutes and ejaculating without having much desire before or after?

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

It really is so clear to those who know what they are talking about.

 

Yes indeed. How this is escaping people is beyond me. Its warned against in literally all the traditions

 

Quote

Which one is worse for jing, being aroused for hours and indulging in your desires while edging but not ejaculating, or getting the deed done in a few minutes and ejaculating without having much desire before or after?

 

Its a peculiar one.

 

Reigning in desire naturally creates detachment from sexual tendencies anyway. Working on stilling the jing in general would help prepare one for celibacy where and when its required

 

Whereas trying to be celibate off the bat because a book told you so is more likely to create issues without the right understanding of what you actually need to do.

 

Terms like "protecting the sperm" are an indication the message was not fully recieved imo

[Dedicated]

On 09/09/2024 at 12:52 AM, Rio said:

I have been looking online about people that have followed a Neidan path and that talked about it but I have some trouble finding information about actually practical use.

So I will ask here if any of you has followed this path. And If yes, what have been the change in your mind, body, spirituality and overall your life ?

I am hesitant about going deep with it as it requires a lot of time, energy and dedication.

My purpose with this practice would be to be even more in accordance with the Tao.

But I suspect that there is potentialy more so I'm curious about what it could bring else.

I have experienced the phenomenon, but decades ago. I sincerely encourage you. Once you have you want to

[Taoist Texts]

16 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

So its more convienent for you to avoid that and pretend I didnt answer right?

sure lets try again, lets see who pretends what;) . Please try to answer yes or no to a simple yes-or-no question.

17 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

So TT, the problem isnt actually the ejaculation,

QUESTION: is ejaculation on its own  A problem in your school?

PLS PICK ONE ANSWER: Yes it is a problem ...OR ...No it is not a problem - only please.

 

in the mean time lets turn to another expert:

13 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Which one is worse for jing, being aroused for hours and indulging in your desires while edging but not ejaculating, or getting the deed done in a few minutes and ejaculating without having much desire before or after?

here again  no straight answer is given (because fantasy) but obviously it is 

Quote

in your school - is the semen ejaculation: A) disregarded B ) discouraged C) encouraged?  

 

C! We have a winner!

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sure lets try again

 

Hold on a moment...Lets have you address the fact that you dont seem to understand the point about Jing firstly

 

Is it  (A) protecting the sperm, or  (b) protecting the essence

 

Pick one please, and note they are not the same thing

[Taoist Texts]

52 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Hold on a moment...Lets have you address the fact that you dont seem to understand the point about Jing firstly

there you go. as predicted 'declined to answer'.  Speaking of which, it is fantasists who are incapable of giving straight answers because that destroys their fantasy. (Present company excluded, of course)

55 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Is it  (A) protecting the sperm, or  (b) protecting the essence Pick one please

it is A. See? I have the superpower of straight answering. Because i am not a fantasist. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Hold on a moment...Lets have you address the fact that you dont seem to understand the point about Jing firstly

 

Is it  (A) protecting the sperm, or  (b) protecting the essence

 

Pick one please, and note they are not the same thing

Don’t even waste your time. He has nothing of value to contribute. It’s quite laughable how he thinks he’s convincing everyone that he actually knows what he’s talking about.

 

Just give him the wow react and move on.

[Giles]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

sure lets try again

 

Why bother?

 

He's totally invested in what he's been told by Damo and you’re certainly not going to change his mind.

 

[Shadow_self]

21 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Because i am not a fantasist. 

 

Im glad you believe that, genuinely I am  

 

However, considering you claim mastery of neidan, and stated you've formed the embryo

 

 

 

Yet

• Havent had a transformation thats rippled down to the physical level (in fact you deny it)
• Cannot explain things like Jing without confusing the prenatal and postnatal
• Havent  observed a siddhi, nor developed one

 

You might find you may have a hard time convincing others of that same claim

 

 

And TT, as for sexual fluids,

 

They are only the outcome of the Yin aspect of Jing, and they are produced by food and drink (its replacable)

 

Its the Yang aspect of Jing we worry about,  The  "True Fire" in water. The middle line below

 

 

Interfering with that middle line, happens long before any type of ejaculation

 

This is demonstrating that you dont have a handle on the extraction process, nor , the proper alchemical MCO

 

But as we've seen historically, this isnt your first time demonstrating confusion around neidan matters when discussing it with someone who does practice it

 

Ill await the traditional, dismissal of the very true point above, and the usual rhetoric  

 

[Shadow_self]

8 minutes ago, Giles said:

He's totally invested in what he's been told by Damo and you’re certainly not going to change his mind.

 

Actually Damo didnt tell me that at all

 

You really cant help but be dishonest, can you?