Weight Training & Taoist Practice - Compatability

[Thrice Daily]

I'm very interested to read what you Daobums have to say about this, especially those with years of experimentation. 

 

As I've said in another post I'm weight training at the moment and it's pretty brutal 3 times per week full body. I'd say it's an intermediate workout. It mixes really nice with some some Taoist practices. I do them separately of course at totally different times. 

 

I do iron shirt and six sounds. I feel this aids in recovery massively and every session I either get stronger or better at maintaining form with the weights. I'm also certain the 3 sets of 20 breathing squats i'm doing supersetted with breathing pull overs really helps my stance develop too. 

 

Now say for a contrast. When I was taught a tendon changing set in Taiwan, the teacher strictly was against weightraining and mixing it with tendon changing . I can appreciate this for sure. 

 

I'd be very interested to know what supplementary strength work you use / swear by and what kind of practices do you find compatible or not, also maybe what kind of sequences do you use, ie lifting at start or end of session etc. 

 

So yeah what works for you in terms of weight training, weight lifting, power lifting, body weight training etc?.

 

I'd really like if this was a popular thread as I bet you have got some great and varied opinions on this topic. 

 

Look forward to reading your replies... 

 

I think I really start to understand why the Shaolin concentrate on such a strong physical base for their students early on. I think carrying water up mountains every morning would do wonders for your 3 treasures !!

Edited September 11 by Thrice Daily
Spelling

[Lukks]

Damo Mitchell posted a video about it some days ago

 

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

Nice one Lukks. It's a pretty good video. He made some excellent points for beginners and die hard purists.

I've been in that place of relying on internal arts only getting stronger at first and then weaker. Looking at resistance work as inferior and not complimentary. It's a dangerous attitude ing term for strength and overall health. It is for my type anyway. 

 

What I really interested in is people's experiences and routines in compliment to other internal training. Or even external martial arts and weight training as adjunct. 

 

Hope other people answer. I think because I posted on in the health section less people see it Maybe I'll ask again in general duscussion.

 

Thanks though Lukks, I like this chap in the video. He seems like a well grounded chap.

[Lukks]

On 16/09/2024 at 2:34 AM, Thrice Daily said:

Hope other people answer. I think because I posted on in the health section less people see it Maybe I'll ask again in general duscussion.

 

Yep, not many people come here haha

 

 

 

On 16/09/2024 at 2:34 AM, Thrice Daily said:

Thanks though Lukks, I like this chap in the video. He seems like a well grounded chap.

 

He is Damo Mitchell, a reference if you want to learn more about the internal arts.

 

 

 

On 16/09/2024 at 2:34 AM, Thrice Daily said:

What I really interested in is people's experiences and routines in compliment to other internal training. Or even external martial arts and weight training as adjunct. 

 

I have a full-body workout routine I do it 3 days in the week, I use some calisthenic movements and also weight lifting  with focus on hypertrophy, but as he said in the video, it's probably something that wouldn't benefit the internal training.

He explains it better but before lifting weights it's better to first mobilize the chi  inside of your body, then you can benefit from lifting weights.

 

From what I learned the only thing that can "compliment" internal training is cardio, like walking/running and stretching.

 

But there are more expecienced people than me here and this may be a controversial topic, so I would also like to hear what people have to say on this.

[MBZ]

Isometrics are compatible with Taoist practices because they primarily work the tendons. 🙏🏻

[Sanity Check]

Its been said Bruce Lee bench pressed 400 pounds with a body weight of 150 - 170 lbs.

 

Is it possible Bruce Lee used a combination of internal and external training to accomplish this feat?

 

It might also explain his unusual speed and explosive power.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19 by Sanity Check

[Thrice Daily]

Totally, and lots of tendon power plus special mastery over his vectors. 
 

I bet if you could view each joint sequentially moving he had crazy command over his kinetic (think that’s spelled right) chain …

 

Yeah I’m one who has respect for Bruce Lee legacy too. Many don’t sadly. And to think he did much of it with a badly damaged back . Maximum Respect. 
 

QT did a lot of damage with his film portrayal of Bruce, but in a way I also respect QT for it. He was human after all and many forget that. We all have our failings.
 

You might like to try single legged stiff leg deadlifts, I do it with two dumbbells , only light weight like 8 kg or something at the moment.

I do it on my days off from weights for movement. Along with Turkish Get Ups. 
 

If you’re interested to know more check out Tim Ferris “4 hour body”. There are great instructions there for weights, reps and sets. 

Bruce was right about training on one leg, it’s got to be done and imho was probably one of the biggest kernels he shared with the world. 

[Thrice Daily]

13 hours ago, MBZ said:

Isometrics are compatible with Taoist practices because they primarily work the tendons. 🙏🏻

What kind of isometrics would you suggest?
 

And how might you work them into your day/training session?

[MBZ]

10 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

What kind of isometrics would you suggest?
 

And how might you work them into your day/training session?

Get the book “The Ultimate Isometrics Manual” by Paul Wade. It’s the most up to date in terms of research and there’s tons of programs for various goals. 🙏🏻

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, MBZ said:

Get the book “The Ultimate Isometrics Manual” by Paul Wade. It’s the most up to date in terms of research and there’s tons of programs for various goals. 🙏🏻

 

1 hour ago, MBZ said:

 

Nice one, I'll look into that 👍

[ChiDragon]

On 9/11/2024 at 12:13 PM, Thrice Daily said:

Now say for a contrast. When I was taught a tendon changing set in Taiwan, the teacher strictly was against weightraining and mixing it with tendon changing . I can appreciate this for sure. 

What I have to say is that weightlifting is an external practice, normally one doesn't mix practice with internal practice. It is because they are contradicting with each other. Internal art and external art are very different in terms of muscle construction. Internal is soft which is considered yin(陰), external is hard which yang(陽). In martial arts, it was recommended to start with the yin practice, then do the yang later. In reverse, like do the yang first then the yin later or do both at the same time, one will not get the best result from both. However, I don't think westerners do aware of this idea.

One can practice Taiji to build the Jin in the body, then, one can do the weightlifting. However, after the weightlifting training, it is hard to reverse the muscle structure back to the initial condition. Besides, after the weightlifting training, there was no need to do any internal training. It serve no purpose to the body builders. That was why it was not recommend to both at the same time.

 

PS

IMHO I don't think we want to confuse our muscles.

 

On 9/11/2024 at 12:13 PM, Thrice Daily said:

 

So yeah what works for you in terms of weight training, weight lifting, power lifting, body weight training etc?

To me, body weight training is when standing on leg as in Taiji practice. It requires to stand on one leg, alternately, for few seconds at a time works wonders. I might say it is equivalent to ZZ with the body weight shifted alternately to the legs. Shifting the body weight alternately is to prevent applying the stress on the legs for too long.

 

On 9/11/2024 at 12:13 PM, Thrice Daily said:

I think I really start to understand why the Shaolin concentrate on such a strong physical base for their students early on. I think carrying water up mountains every morning would do wonders for your 3 treasures !!

Carrying water are the later stage of training. After the students went through the basic training and built up some internal strength, then they would go to this level.

Edited October 5 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

16 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

What kind of isometrics would you suggest?

Talking about isometrics, Taiji practice is a very good one. It was also considered as an aerobic exercise but not as vigorous as the western aerobic. I think!

Edited September 19 by ChiDragon

[Forwards]

Completely beneficial.  I dont even know what people think they're going to gain as far as life extension if they're not covering their bases with strength training.  If you want to be a 100+ year old monk why wouldnt you follow practices that are shown to lengthen life expectancy?  Even if a person completely separates their internal and external practices the potential increase to a person's lifespan is worth the hassle.  You're gonna learn more by training to the age of 100 than you will training to the age of 78.

[Thrice Daily]

14 minutes ago, Forwards said:

Completely beneficial.  I dont even know what people think they're going to gain as far as life extension if they're not covering their bases with strength training.  If you want to be a 100+ year old monk why wouldnt you follow practices that are shown to lengthen life expectancy?  Even if a person completely separates their internal and external practices the potential increase to a person's lifespan is worth the hassle.  You're gonna learn more by training to the age of 100 than you will training to the age of 78.

I know right, with are especially lucky these days to have youtube and the likes of Andy Galpin on Huberman giving free and incredible information.

 

Sadly I think some may still fall into the trap I did. I thought yoga solved everything when I moved from weights to yoga. I stayed with this purist attitude and knackered myself up. Strength work as a separate component is so so valuable . Glad I know and happy to share it.

 

What routines do you follow, care to share?

[Thrice Daily]

9 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Talking about isometrics, Taiji practice is a very good one. It was also considered as an aerobic exercise but not as vigorous as the western aerobic. I think!

What style do you practice with Taiji. I’ll admit I’m not well versed.

I did a little Chen but my teacher passed away and out of a strange happenstance I never learned the whole form. 
I moved around though so, did a tiny bit of simplified Yang and was exposed to some Chen Pan Ling when I lived in Taiwan. I liked that a lot but didn’t train for long as I moved away again. 
 

These days Taiji for me is an exploration of the movements I’ve learned over the years and playing with them. So I don’t rate myself really in any style.

 

I will enter some interesting states at times though I will say. 
 

Do you focus solely on the body or find yourself merging with other energies?
 

At times elements of Yijing creep into my practice although I’ve done no Bagua/Pakua involved training. It’s a great book the I-Ching. 
 

A bit off topic I know, like your style of answering though.

[Thrice Daily]

9 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

What I have to say is that weightlifting is an external practice, normally one doesn't mix practice with internal practice. It is because they are contradicting with each other. Internal art and external art are very different in terms of muscle construction. Internal is soft which is considered yin(陰), external is hard which yang(陽). In martial arts, it was recommended to start with the yin practice, then do the yang later. In reverse, like do the yang first then the yin later or do both at the same time, one will not get the best result from both. However, I don't think westerners do aware of this idea.

One can practice Taiji to build the Jin in the body, then, one can do the weightlifting. However, after the weightlifting training, it is hard to reverse the muscle structure back to the initial condition. Besides, after the weightlifting training, there was no need to do any internal training. It serve no purpose to the body builders. That was why it was not recommend to both at the same time.

 

PS

IMHO I don't think we confuse our muscles.

 

To me, body weight training is when standing on leg as in Taiji practice. It requires to stand on one leg, alternately, for few seconds at a time works wonders. I might say it is equivalent to ZZ with the body weight shifted alternately to the legs. Shifting the body weight alternately is to prevent applying the stress on the legs for too long.

 

Carrying water are the later stage of training. After the students went through the basic training and built up some internal strength, then they would go to this level.

Can you tell me about Jin and what that means to you?

 

I’m sure I remember it being “gold” in Trad Chinese. I remember Tai Jin Lue in Taichung. It made me smile driving down there that that would call such a road Greatest Gold Road.

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

What style do you practice with Taiji.

I practice the Yang style Taiji. I had learned the 108 form to begin with. Some of the moves are no longer existed. I am glad that I have inherited.

 

Here is a demo of mIne doing part of the 108 form. The movements are the basic form of the Yang style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrrxbfqtLIw&feature=youtu.be

Edited September 20 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Can you tell me about Jin and what that means to you?

 

Jin is 勁，not 金（gold). Jin is an immense power acquired from practicing Taij diligently. It takes years of daily practice to develop this internal strength.

If you want to know more about Taiji, you may go into my personal practice journal (PPJ) in the Personal Practice Discussion Section.

Edited September 20 by ChiDragon

[Thrice Daily]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

I practice the Yang style Taiji. I had learned the 108 form to begin with. Some of the moves are no longer existed. I am glad that I have inherited.

 

Here is a demo of mIne doing part of the 108 form. The movements are the basic form of the Yang style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrrxbfqtLIw&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for that, enjoyed watching. Very relaxing to watch.