The Neidan Direct

[Nintendao]

1 hour ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

The problem is expectation, not desire. 

 

Here there is no longer a frustration if desire is not met. Just peace and quietness. 

 

Awareness has no problem with desire. 

 

Look at identity when seeing frustration and expectation. Then the problem goes away. 

 

Well said, and could also be applied to a number of other traps that beset the path. One thing i liked about the Ge Guolong interview, near the end of the usual mound of boilerplate, he talks about how reclusion is great for learning, but returning to the everyday grind is what really puts it to the test. 

 

On 9/15/2024 at 12:07 PM, Taoist Texts said:

he [Guolong] is a chinese  scholar which in china means a bureaucrat, a state functionary. as to how rigorous his personal practice is any, there is no data.

I've heard a few times how the powers that be seem to have an interest in portraying Taoists to the rest of the world as weird tree-huggers hanging out in the mountains, certainly not shrewed badasses hiding in plain sight.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 8:10 AM, Taoist Texts said:

[from amazon review of Guolong book]… I am guessing that Huang Yuanji's original writings (of which only a fraction are in this book) would be of use to a more advanced practitioner

Luckily our neighborly and dashing rapscallion Dr. TT has provided a free sample, which also might've been missed from that other thread.

[Shadow_self]

7 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

The problem is expectation, not desire. 

 

Here there is no longer a frustration if desire is not met. Just peace and quietness. 

 

Awareness has no problem with desire. 

 

Look at identity when seeing frustration and expectation. Then the problem goes away. 

 

Not quite

 

Expectation does not stir  and scatter JIng the way Desire does

 

I expect to wake up tomorrow. I have no burning desire to, to be perfectly honest

 

You have confused expecting an outcome vs the desire for one,

 

Without the desire for the expected outcome. There is no frustration

Edited September 19 by Shadow_self

[forestofclarity]

MOD NOTE: Unlocked and returned after mod review and discussion. Disrespectful comments related to rape/sexual assault removed. Political discussion removed. Comments associated with discussion removed. 

[johndoe2012]

19 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Not quite

 

Expectation does not stir  and scatter JIng the way Desire does

 

I expect to wake up tomorrow. I have no burning desire to, to be perfectly honest

 

You have confused expecting an outcome vs the desire for one,

 

Without the desire for the expected outcome. There is no frustration

 

No worries or anxiety about stirring jing here. 

 

No confusion on my part. 

 

Expectation does build up energy in anticipation for future events. So you get disappointed if expectation is not met, happy if met. This is part of suffering. 

 

No expectations = no problem. 

[Shadow_self]

4 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

No confusion on my part. 

 

Unfortunately there is, ill explain below

 

4 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

Expectation does build up energy in anticipation for future events.

 

Thats an entirely different discussion

 

4 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

So you get disappointed if expectation is not met, happy if met. This is part of suffering. 

 

You are actually blending expectation and desire together here.  But you are not alone in this. People routinely use the word expectations with desire inherently attached to it

 

I will use dictionary definitions to make it easier

 

 

 

 

So one has to to with a belief that an outcome may occur.

 

The other has to do with wanting a specific outcome to occur

 

Heres a second example

 

Expectation = I believe it may be sunny weather tomorrow

Desire=  I really want it to be sunny tomorrow. Ill be disappointed if it is not

 

The former is not the problem, the latter is where the issues occur

 

[Thrice Daily]

On 14/09/2024 at 7:54 AM, Taoist Texts said:

it means paternity. the saints (immortals) are not born from saints. ordinary people become saints through alchemy.

And being a parent perhaps. Do you have children Taoist Texts?

[forestofclarity]

8 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

Expectation does build up energy in anticipation for future events.

 

It also clouds what is seen or allowed to manifest, IME. 

[Thrice Daily]

On 20/09/2024 at 4:21 PM, Thrice Daily said:

And being a parent perhaps. Do you have children Taoist Texts?

@Taoist Texts I have one daughter and I’m half way to becoming a saint me thinks.

 

Can I ask , I realise you are busy. So hopefully it’s not too tough a question. 

Neidan Direct?

Do you know of any patriarchs of Yiguandao that have been involved with Neidan practices to any notable levels. I believe there where 18 patriarchs altogether over the years. Do you know if any were proficient in Neidan? And perhaps have any writings?

[Chang dao ling]

6 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

@Taoist Texts I have one daughter and I’m half way to becoming a saint me thinks.

 

Can I ask , I realise you are busy. So hopefully it’s not too tough a question. 

Neidan Direct?

Do you know of any patriarchs of Yiguandao that have been involved with Neidan practices to any notable levels. I believe there where 18 patriarchs altogether over the years. Do you know if any were proficient in Neidan? And perhaps have any writings?

What is yiguandao? 

[Thrice Daily]

Yiguandao / I-Kuan Tao (traditional Chinese: 一貫道; simplified Chinese: 一贯道; pinyin: Yīguàn Dào; Wade–Giles: I¹-Kuan⁴Tao⁴),^[α] meaning the Consistent Way or Persistent Way, is a Chinese salvationist religious sect that emerged in the late 19th century, in Shandong, to become China's most important redemptive society in the 1930s and 1940s, especially during the Japanese invasion.^[9] In the 1930s Yiguandao spread rapidly throughout China led by Zhang Tianran, who is the eighteenth patriarch of the Latter Far East Tao Lineage, and Sun Suzhen, the first matriarch of the Lineage.
 

Yiguandao started off with a few thousand followers in Shandong in the 1930s, but under the Patriarch and Matriarch's leadership and with missionary work the group grew to become the biggest movement in China in the 1940s with millions of followers.^[10] In 1949, Yiguandao was proscribed in mainland China as an illegal secret society and heretical cult as part of the greater antireligious campaign that took place. Yiguandao has since flourished in Taiwan, despite decades of persecution by the Kuomintang that officially ended in 1987 with the legalization of Yiguandao and a government apology.^[11] Yiguandao is still not able to be officially promoted in the mainland, but there are many members who live and practice there.^[12]

According to Dr. Sebastien Billioud, Yiguandao can be viewed as an updated version of the tradition unity of the three teachings of Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. In Yiguandao's case it also incorporated Christianity and Islambecoming a unity of the five teachings.^[13]

Yiguandao is characterized by an eschatological and soteriological doctrine, presenting itself as a way to salvation. It also encourages adherents to engage in missionary activity.^[5] Yiguandao is the worship of the source of the universal reality personified as the Eternal Venerable Mother, or the Splendid Highest Deity (Chinese: 明明上帝; pinyin: Míngmíng Shàngdì). The highest deity is the primordial energy of the universe, identified in Yiguandao thought with the Tao in the wuji or "unlimited" state and with fire. The name used in contemporary Yiguandao scriptures is the "Infinite Mother" (Chinese: 無極母; pinyin: Wújímǔ) and the "lantern of the Mother" (Chinese: 母燈; pinyin: mǔdēng)—a flame representing the Mother—is the central focus of Yiguandao shrines.^[5]

 

I wondered if these members practiced Taoism and preserved some of it in these difficult years in China. Still teaching and transmitting in person even though it was outlawed.

 

I’ve not got a great grasp of the history over there asp trying to piece things together 

Edited September 22 by Thrice Daily

[Taoist Texts]

On 9/22/2024 at 12:10 AM, Thrice Daily said:

@Taoist Texts I have one daughter and I’m half way to becoming a saint me thinks.

may the heavens bless you both

On 9/22/2024 at 12:10 AM, Thrice Daily said:

 

Can I ask , I realise you are busy. 

not anymore  

On 9/22/2024 at 12:10 AM, Thrice Daily said:

Do you know of any patriarchs of Yiguandao that have been involved with Neidan practices to any notable levels. I believe there where 18 patriarchs altogether over the years. Do you know if any were proficient in Neidan?

And perhaps have any writings?

not to my knowledge. All its predecessors such as Xiantiandao were neidan. But YGD changed the tack for the imminent salvation by Maitreya which makes ND useless, since the deserving ones will be saved anyway, while the evil ones will not be regardless.

[Thrice Daily]

20 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

regardless.

Now you’re talking. 
 

That’s as cryptic as the chicken and the egg.