The Neidan Direct

[Taoist Texts]

On 9/10/2024 at 3:06 PM, Giles said:

Taoist Internal Alchemy, the number of people who've attempted to walk that Path is:

 

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like the number of waves of the ocean and the number of those who've succeeded is like the number of feathers on a phoenix or the number of horns on a dragon.

yes thats the reality

3 hours ago, Giles said:

Would you mind starting a new topic (something along the lines of Neidan for Dummies perhaps) in the Teachers & Systems section so that we can, hopefully, dispelled some of that confusion?

gladly since we are on a roll  . Lets welcome everybody not just dummies.

Below is something to start us up

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Only when you undergo a myriad pains and a 1000 hardships, when your doings are not free, when people are not agreeable with you, then you will know that this dusty world is annoying and tiring, there is nothing good in it, then you will despise the fame and profit, and will dedicate yourself to your own thing; then you will be satiated by the human world and direct your will to pure cultivation. Even if by today you have not made a saint, still it is a ladder of the saintly Dao; in your rebirth you will be a man, and hardly the Heavenly saints will abandon you and seek to save someone else? That is why the ancients said: ‘The spiritual sainthood comes not from a spiritual seed, every layman can become a saint’, that’s what they meant. HYJ

 

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When I, Wu-yuan, first met the old man Kan-gu, he explicated to me cultivation of the true and great Dao, making the work clear, he only spoke about the pre-Heavenly qi that comes from the empty non-being. But due to my inability to see, I was confused for 13 long years. I read through all the cinnabar books, but still could not understand it completely. After meeting the master Xian-liu, I penetrated everything from the beginning to the end, ‘bit through the iron bullet’, the words have become clear, the heart become enlightened, and I began to understand that the empty non-being is empty non-being and that the true one is the true one; I don’t have it and neither it comes from the others; it can not be put in words or images, nor can be drawn as a picture; but there can be a perception and intuition of it; when it expands it fills the 6 directions, when it contracts it hides in secret; it reaches the Heaven and covers the Earth, it creates sages, worthies, saints, buddhas- they all come out of it. If people only knew this pre-Heavenly true single qi then their great root would be set, and by it the rest of the work would be done. That is why the ancient saints used to say: when you obtain the One, the myriad of affairs is done. LYM

 

 

 

[Giles]

Thank you. 🙏🏻

[Chang dao ling]

54 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

The spiritual sainthood comes not from a spiritual seed, every layman can become a saint’, that’s what they meant

Can you please elaborate 🤔 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

Can you please elaborate 🤔 

on which word?

[Chang dao ling]

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

The spiritual sainthood comes not from a spiritual seed

This sentence. what is spiritual seed?

Edited September 14 by Chang dao ling

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

This sentence. what is spiritual seed?

it means paternity. the saints (immortals) are not born from saints. ordinary people become saints through alchemy.

[Chang dao ling]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

it means paternity. the saints (immortals) are not born from saints. ordinary people become saints through alchemy.

Thanks. I believe here immortal means spirit immortal because only this level of immortality is true immortality. By the way TT what's type of Taoist system you are practicing?

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

Thanks. I believe here immortal means spirit immortal because only this level of immortality is true immortality. By the way TT what's type of Taoist system you are practicing?

Huang Yuan-ji

[Giles]

Am liking this approach a lot ATM. 🙏🏻

 

Just googled:

 

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Huang Yuan-ji

 

and located this hit:

 

 

Would you recommend watching it?

 

[snowymountains]

As non-practitioner of Neidan I'm interested in a top down view of the Neidan "taxonomy" and lineages. E.g. where does GF fit in that taxonomy.

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Giles said:

Would you recommend watching it?

great find. its a primer so i recommend watching it.

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

E.g. where does GF fit in that taxonomy.

it is a sideways branch but still a chip of the old block. a great text.

1 hour ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

He’s not even quoting his sacred texts anymore, just anything from random kung fu websites that agree with what he says 

My kung fu is stronger than your kung fu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Lutang

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

happy to oblige;)

On 9/13/2024 at 7:41 PM, Shadow_self said:

Try again please

 

Unless you can find me a quote that directly opposes what Wang Mu said (IE you do not build a LDT as firm as a stone) you are just projecting a false narrative

here you go! 

11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

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I said: “So then is all that is attained, I can say that I have attained the inner strength of Kung Fu? The Qi has sunk, and the lower abdomen is as hard as a stone.”

Mr. Zong said, “No! No! Although your Qi flows through your lower abdomen, if you don’t transform your firmness, you will end up exhausted, and that is not the highest level of achievement of Kung Fu.” I asked again how to transform it?

The master said: “If there is nothing, the reality is empty (rather than fullness). The firmness of the belly is not the true way. 

https://mindfulwingchun.online/difference-between-internal-and-external-kung-fu-schools/

[Chang dao ling]

11 hours ago, Giles said:

Am liking this approach a lot ATM. 🙏🏻

 

Just googled:

 

 

and located this hit:

 

 

Would you recommend watching it?

 

Thanks for the video giles

[Chang dao ling]

12 hours ago, Giles said:

Am liking this approach a lot ATM. 🙏🏻

 

Just googled:

 

 

and located this hit:

 

 

Would you recommend watching it?

12 hours ago, Giles said:

Am liking this approach a lot ATM. 🙏🏻

 

Just googled:

 

 

and located this hit:

 

 

Would you recommend watching it?

 

Hey bro just find his book 

https://amzn.in/d/61kjmSO

[Giles]

Thanks Brother! 🙏🏻

 

Picked up a copy already and started reading it last night. 😊

 

So far, so good. 👍🏻❤️

 

Thanks again, @Taoist Texts & @Chang dao ling. 🙏🏻

 

This thread's is quite a nice example of how this forum could & should operate (e.g. mutual co-operation). 😊

 

Edited September 15 by Giles

[snowymountains]

17 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

it is a sideways branch but still a chip of the old block. a great text.

 

Thanks TT, How do branches differ, I gather they have a different textual basis, perhaps with some overlap, but are their end goals similar?

Eg is a GF practitioner aiming at the same goals as a Huang Yuan-ji practitioner, just using different techniques and methods?

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Giles said:

Picked up a copy already and started reading it last night. 😊

 

So far, so good. 👍🏻❤️

let us know if this review is correct

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I bought this hoping to get some practice ideas. I knew it wasn’t a how to book but I expected at least something helpful on meditation or other alchemical practice. The author (commentator) and translator make clear they will not reveal any detailed instruction. To make things worse this book is tedious to read with endless repetition and patronisingly simple metaphors and illustrative tales littered throughout. Each chapter starts with Huang Yuanji’s original writing followed by the commentator explaining that text at some length but usually not in a way that adds anything already made fairly clear in the original. To be fair the commentator occasionally offers some basic advice and insight but not of any significance to me. So I didn’t enjoy this as an academic or artistic work and it certainly is useless to me as a practice resource. I am guessing that Huang Yuanji's original writings (of which only a fraction are in this book) would be of use to a more advanced practitioner but probably not the commentator’s contributions

 

11 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

Thanks TT, How do branches differ, I gather they have a different textual basis, perhaps with some overlap

yes branches grow around the writings and personal students of several founders

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/jindan_intro_3.html

17 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

but are their end goals similar?

Eg is a GF practitioner aiming at the same goals as a Huang Yuan-ji practitioner, just using different techniques and methods?

correct. same goals: bliss now, immortality later. GF and HYJ differ technically, the former is more 'turn the light around' and Buddhism ; the latter is more MCO and DDJ.

[snowymountains]

54 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes branches grow around the writings and personal students of several founders

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/jindan_intro_3.html

correct. same goals: bliss now, immortality later. GF and HYJ differ technically, the former is more 'turn the light around' and Buddhism ; the latter is more MCO and DDJ.

 

I see, an interesting question is which branches have someone representing them today that's both a scholar/academic and a rigorous practitioner ?

 

I gather from the above Ge Guolong is one for HYJ.

Another scholar and practitioner which seems to be of high standards is Fabrizio Pregadio. I believe the site you linked is his. Which branch does he practice?

One thing that's held me from looking into Neidan is not the practice itself, after all I haven't practiced it and thus do not have a view. But a lot of teachers look rather snakeoil-y to me and verifying their transmission always seemed to be a complex task.

 

Looking at scholars of high standards who are also practitioners, simplifies selection.

Some candidate names Ge Guolong, Fabrizio Pregadio. Livia Kohn also looks very interesting.  Are there others like them?

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, snowymountains said:

scholar/academic and a rigorous practitioner ?

 

I gather from the above Ge Guolong is one for HYJ.

he is a chinese  scholar which in china means a bureaucrat, a state functionary. as to how rigorous his personal practice is any, there is no data.

2 hours ago, snowymountains said:

Another scholar and practitioner which seems to be of high standards is Fabrizio Pregadio. I believe the site you linked is his. Which branch does he practice?

he does not.

2 hours ago, snowymountains said:

But a lot of teachers look rather snakeoil-y to me and verifying their transmission always seemed to be a complex task.

all of them are that. in modern ND there is no transmission, let alone verified one, peeps read new-agey books, hook up with a self-taught chinese OR invent one, set up a website, declare themselves teachers, smooth talk the nincompoops into forking over the zoom fees, thats it.

2 hours ago, snowymountains said:

Livia Kohn also looks very interesting.  Are there others like them?

not many because the ND grant pasture is not large. https://cas-e.de/teammembers/mozias-ilia/ this one is another larper.

[Giles]

21 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

let us know if this review is correct

 

 

It will be a while before I work my way through the book, so, in the interim, I'm posting this link* to an interview with Professor Guolong's translator's interview on the Science and Nonduality blog (#83), which covers it well, I feel.

 

The translator also makes some extremely salient points about the futility of arguing with the ignorant, from a Taoist perspective, which I consider to be highly relevant to the subject of Taoist Inner Alchemy.

 

* https://scienceandnonduality.com/audio/83-taoist-inner-alchemy/

 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Giles said:

m posting this link* to an interview with Professor Guolong's translator's

thanks;) listened to it. it went about how i expected it to be (new-age) but i was cleaning the house and loading the dishwasher so not a complete waste of time. A facepalm: 'in taoism there are no books of commandments'. In fact the most public part of taoist lit are the numerous books of precepts. He ended by ranting on Bezos and Musk so i tuned out.

 

3 hours ago, Giles said:

futility of arguing

yeah arguing is always useless

Edited September 16 by Taoist Texts

[Giles]

1 minute ago, Taoist Texts said:

A facepalm: 'in taoism there are no books of commandments'. In fact the most public part of taoist lit are the numerous books of precepts. He ended by ranting on Bezos and Mask so i tuned out.

 

I didn't listen to the last part of the interview, so I missed that bit. I'll certainly revisit it later, because I'd like to hear his view on them from his Taoist perspective.

 

[Master Logray]

 Guolong's translation of traditional text is alright.  But I have read a book of his own writing......  Better read other materials.

[Shadow_self]

[edited by Mod]

 

19 hours ago, Nintendao said:

D'oh! Another one bites the dust.

 

I didn't want to get into the weeds on it of course, but I also wanted to say that @-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- i do agree with the point that pursuit of chastity itself can become some kind of twisted obsession, that's worse than just getting it over with. Especially for young whippersnappers. Wishing everyone find balance and work out the best journey. 🌟

 

No desire = No urges = No problem

 

Vs

 

Desire plus frustration and a lack of release.

 

This is the difference between tackling a symptom vs tackling a cause

[Nintendao]

And if a right practice has been established, the energy will have already gone where it's supposed to. So what's this thread then? I re-read the opening post and i'm just thinking "Saintly is as saintly does" (Forest Gump voice). How to "bite through the iron"? Other than having my ass handed to me by life until a moment-of-zen hits and reveals to me what "can not be put in words or images, nor can be drawn as a picture; but there can be a perception and intuition of it; when it expands it fills the 6 directions, when it contracts it hides in secret; it reaches the Heaven and covers the Earth" Is it me or that sounds a little like Emerald Tablet? I'm not knocking it, mind you.

 

Edited September 19 by Nintendao

[johndoe2012]

5 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

No desire = No urges = No problem

 

Vs

 

Desire plus frustration and a lack of release.

 

This is the difference between tackling a symptom vs tackling a cause

 

The problem is expectation, not desire. 

 

Here there is no longer a frustration if desire is not met. Just peace and quietness. 

 

Awareness has no problem with desire. 

 

Look at identity when seeing frustration and expectation. Then the problem goes away.