Internal Power (內功, Neigong) in Martial Arts

[Thrice Daily]

22 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

Again, it was never focused on where I came from (key word focused, as we were taught it); things like iron palm and iron fist took more priority. 

 

...Perhaps this is due to a difference in lineage. I'm from the William Cheung lineage, how about you? 

Ip Man, via Sifu Kwok, I was lucky to spend time with him before he was more famous back in 2000’s when I did a lot more Qigong, I lived quite close by.

 

His quality lesson to lesson changed a lot, I think because of his travelling and continuous training, it was very vibrant and terrific then. 
 

id have loved to train with him when he was even younger though. My kungfu brother knew him 10 - 15 years before me. And got to spend a lot more time with him.

 

I found the system a bit too mechanical and ridged then if I’m honest, but you plant the seeds and they grow if you water them, Sifu energy was very interesting. It was a privilege and honour to train with him back then. 

22 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

 

If you do find it, please share! This sounds very interesting, so I'd love to give it a try! 

Cool 😎 

 

Yeah, these are requirements for Level 7. As far as I was taught, they're methods to develop sensitivity, contact reflexes, and structure; basically, it's just conditioning, nothing magical. If anything, I have to wonder why people make such a big deal over them. 

I think it’s the fun element you know , for me I never used wooden dummy though (yet) not for any period of time. I think this is beautiful , with the wood being such a good conductor for Chi, better than stone and metal right?
 

I think a relationship would develop and great respect and power along with it over the years. I miss my Chi Sau buddies. Right now not playing with anybody. Just shadow boxing and stick flows.

 

I 

22 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

 

 

[Paradoxal]

8 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Ip Man, via Sifu Kwok, I was lucky to spend time with him before he was more famous back in 2000’s when I did a lot more Qigong, I lived quite close by.

 

His quality lesson to lesson changed a lot, I think because of his travelling and continuous training, it was very vibrant and terrific then. 

Oh, I've seen some of what he does, at least in recent times! How would you say that differs compared to his older lessons? 

 

10 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

I found the system a bit too mechanical and ridged then if I’m honest

I've noticed this myself, but then I realized that it wasn't the system that was rigid, but me. We're always told to become like water, to flow, to loosen up, but it's not something we're supposed to do in class. Rather, we're supposed to spend time at home working on these things, since class time would be wasted if we just stretched! Since then, I feel I've become much, much more loose.  

 

12 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

I think it’s the fun element you know , for me I never used wooden dummy though (yet) not for any period of time. I think this is beautiful , with the wood being such a good conductor for Chi, better than stone and metal right?

Ah, I see! Honestly, I've never really found WC to be very much "fun" compared to other martial arts; it is, however, extremely efficient and effective! Perhaps what I'm missing is more chi sao, then! 

 

As for the wooden dummy, it does conduct chi fairly well from my experiences, but I was taught that its primary function is learning to flow. Of course, it *is* fun to send a 100-lb dummy jumping when ya hit it hard, but I find that to be more play than training lol. If ya get a good one, it's also really good for conditioning the arms/legs, as the wood should be quite solid (with some wiggle at the joints). 

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, Paradoxal said:

Oh, I've seen some of what he does, at least in recent times! How would you say that differs compared to his older lessons?

 

Very different, but every lesson was very different too. Many times he would be watching only something is pure about his kungfu. He had praying mantis history also. I liked to link arms with him, we are very similar height, so it’s more vibrant somehow. 
I think what was special in his teachings was so much was picked up close to the source in Hong Kong and back when Ip Chun and Ip Ching were very active. I imagine the conversation was very concentrated in terms of coming from the source. Sifu would pass on different tips to students. Even more so in the times of my Kung Fu brother. He had more stories from earlier times, tips and trainings. He used to play around with the long pole, I never seen this in class. 
 

Watch this video very closely, you might see some things hidden in there, maybe maybe not. Try see what happens, have open heart ♥️ 

I would never teach or disclose secrets. I’m not qualified nor do I have permission. You should send him a message though if you feel inclined, he is a nice guy generally speaking 

 

1 hour ago, Paradoxal said:

 

I've noticed this myself, but then I realized that it wasn't the system that was rigid, but me. We're always told to become like water, to flow, to loosen up, but it's not something we're supposed to do in class. Rather, we're supposed to spend time at home working on these things, since class time would be wasted if we just stretched! Since then, I feel I've become much, much more loose.  
 

Yes of course, I understand. It’s best to treat classes seriously. That is how I always felt.

 

Ah, I see! Honestly, I've never really found WC to be very much "fun" compared to other martial arts; it is, however, extremely efficient and effective! Perhaps what I'm missing is more chi sao, then!

 

There is far more energetic exchange going on that’s for sure. If you look after your energy it is good for everyone. 

 

As for the wooden dummy, it does conduct chi fairly well from my experiences, but I was taught that its primary function is learning to flow. Of course, it *is* fun to send a 100-lb dummy jumping when ya hit it hard, but I find that to be more play than training lol. If ya get a good one, it's also really good for conditioning the arms/legs, as the wood should be quite solid (with some wiggle at the joints). 

Yeah I’d love one, one day maybe. A nice hardwood maybe oak. That would be fab.

 

Have you trained any other martial arts?

 

What kind of supplementary practices do you use, if any, qigong sets etc?

[Paradoxal]

5 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Have you trained any other martial arts?

 

What kind of supplementary practices do you use, if any, qigong sets etc?

This is somewhat of a loaded question, but I'll try to answer it as best as possible. WC is my foundation, my primary art, but Sifu has told me to learn about other arts as much as possible. While studying WC, we often got visits from the grandmaster of Tao Chuan Po, so I have picked up a little from it. However, what I have picked up is applications rather than forms.

 

While I was in Okinawa, I studied Gojo Ryu karate and later got to attend a seminar with Hokama Tetsuhiro-sensei, the current grand master of it. However, more time has been spent learning Motobu Udundi than Goju Ryu. I've learned four forms from Udundi, and each of them has energetics, but I have not been told the intentions behind said energetics. 

 

I don't think it counts as studying, but I have also taken seminars from several grandmaster and master level folks as well, including a grandmaster from a different lineage of WC, a master in ninjutsu, someone from hopkido, and a number of jujutsu and krav maga folks.

 

It's getting late though, so I am heading to bed. I'll give a response to everything else tomorrow.

[Thrice Daily]

55 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

This is somewhat of a loaded question, but I'll try to answer it as best as possible. WC is my foundation, my primary art, but Sifu has told me to learn about other arts as much as possible. While studying WC, we often got visits from the grandmaster of Tao Chuan Po, so I have picked up a little from it. However, what I have picked up is applications rather than forms.

 

While I was in Okinawa, I studied Gojo Ryu karate and later got to attend a seminar with Hokama Tetsuhiro-sensei, the current grand master of it. However, more time has been spent learning Motobu Udundi than Goju Ryu. I've learned four forms from Udundi, and each of them has energetics, but I have not been told the intentions behind said energetics. 

 

I don't think it counts as studying, but I have also taken seminars from several grandmaster and master level folks as well, including a grandmaster from a different lineage of WC, a master in ninjutsu, someone from hopkido, and a number of jujutsu and krav maga folks.

 

It's getting late though, so I am heading to bed. I'll give a response to everything else tomorrow.

Nice , sounds as though you are an invested martial artist. 
 

I’ll have a look out for that little idea document 📃 if it turns up I’ll send it over 👍 

[ChiDragon]

19 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

As far as I'm concerned, cell mitochondria and simple muscular force do not give that level of precision, force, and control. They can let you hit something really hard and break it (ala karate), but they do not count for Fajin. Fajin *must* have an energetic component to it to be classified as such. In fact, each time I've been hit with it or have seen it used, the air itself took on a different quality (it was like the air around us was suddenly electrified, or in rare occasions, deafeningly silent), something I've only seen happening when dealing with strong energetics. Likewise, just before the blow hits, you can feel the energy coming, though it's very hard to describe this feeling. When I've been hit by karate strikes, on the other hand, I have never felt that energy nor that change in the air.  

Thank you for your valuable comments.
Anyway, the objective of the OP is not how one was trained. It is not how one takes the impact from Fajin. The question was: did the practitioner acquire Jin from the training? Whatever the training was, all practitioner use the same muscles, breathe the same way, use the hips the same way. The main question Is did the practitioner able to Fajin effectively like everyone else. However, everybody do make mistakes in the training, but I wouldn't discredit the ability of the practitioner in Fajin because a mistake was made during training.

In Taiji, the movements are most difficult to follow. However, regardless of the mistakes, the exercise still exercise the body joints and muscles. As I think of it, based on my experience, Taiji is not really a dependent on the precision of the movements. Rather, did the muscle exercised daily. Regardless of precision, the body will have the same  effect by going though the movements even with mistakes. Mistakes may be corrected some place along the line. Before the correction of the mistakes was make, no health benefit was lost.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by ChiDragon