What is the dan in neidan and dan tian? 丹

[Thrice Daily]

Sorry this thread kinda got distracted with qigong. 

 

In Neidan do you find there are more ideal times to practice?

 

Do the qualities differ, practicing mindfully, morning, noon or night ?

[Antares]

14 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Sorry this thread kinda got distracted with qigong. 

Exactly. This is daoist section of the TDB. Qigong has no relation to daoism as such because this is recent invention. 

U cant get dan doing qigong. It can help u to regulate 12 meridians only, sometime 8 extraordinary channels

No more than that

[Thrice Daily]

Ok I'll return to the uncarved block 👊 

 

I'm pretty sure I'm getting What Dan is about, having yielded to natural breath for years in sitting meditation.

 

I'll keep you guys posted when I'm more sure it is, what I think it is... Seems a bit too quick to activate what I seemingly have.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

[Antares]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

I'm pretty sure I'm getting What Dan is about, having yielded to natural breath for years in sitting meditation.

This is just no possible the way u do

Read thoroughly what Liu Yiming wrote:

Quote

However, when it is not refined by fire, Yang culminates and necessarily becomes Yin, completion culminates and necessarily becomes lacking. One falls into the postcelestial state...

It what I referred to in thread on Goals of Neidan when said that ordinary person too YIN (in post celestial state)

U cant get Yang just by sitting and breathing. This can only purify heart-mind to some degree

No more than that

In rare cases this is possible. If one completely disperse Yang and gets too Yin in hope that finally complete Yin will reverse into Yang

No warranty it will happen    

[Thrice Daily]

If anything I have to much Yang rising. I work with sexual energy every day. 
maybe one day off per week. 
 

I focus on the legs a lot these days. Almost exclusively. Yang rises by its self very easily and reaches the head. 
 

Bringing it back down is fine. I use standing postures and six sounds afterwards so nothing gets stuck in head. Triple Heater sound and stretch very helpful, as well as smiling down to lower Dan Tien…
 

We are talking about Chi here but of course also Ching and Shen. Which month after month strengthens and ebbs in one way or another. 
 

My night time practices are more what I’m considering as Neidan. Certain realities have been presented to me in my lower Dan Tien that reflect things I’ve read on this forum about the pill/elixir/foetus 

 

I’ve had Awareness for long time and been developing for quite sometime. Only now I am reading the Taoist classics and believe I may have a line to some of the patriarchs through previous teachers in my life. On the earth plane in reality that I have linked with.

 

I am 42 and started practice seriously when I was 22. It’s possible I have a base for Neidan through living a certain way for so long.

 

That would make sense. It’s what the sages did to discover Dan and write about their experiences.

 

Celibacy, seclusion, practice, dedication.

 

It would make sense that many paths lead by naturalness and wu wei lead to very similar places/results??

 

+ the foundation in Qigong and Meditation helps to pave the way, it would seem.

[Antares]

3 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Yang rises by its self very easily and reaches the head. 

That false yang rises. Not what is expected in neidan. 

[Thrice Daily]

10 minutes ago, Antares said:

That false yang rises. Not what is expected in neidan. 

My night time practices are more what I’m considering as Neidan. Certain realities have been presented to me in my lower Dan Tien that reflect things I’ve read on this forum about the pill/elixir/foetus 

 

Yes very different to working with sexual energy I agree ☝️ 

 

[Antares]

2 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Dan Tien that reflect things I’ve read on this forum about the pill/elixir/foetus 

Difficult to identify it, since u say ur yang rising to ur head I guess this is not about pill or elixir.

If this is not yangshen than what else it can be

YANG is your brightness, it what should rise

 

[Thrice Daily]

8 minutes ago, Antares said:

Difficult to identify it, since u say ur yang rising to ur head I guess this is not about pill or elixir.

If this is not yangshen than what else it can be

YANG is your brightness, it what should rise

 

Thanks for your help. The energies are organising themselves. The experiences with the Dan feel like they should be secret.

 

I did much Reiki in the past and had many experiences on my own and with clients I treated, that I kept to myself and would not talk about.

 

I get a feeling Experiences with the Dan are quite similar to this, although it seems not compatible with Reiki… 

 

Neidan seems to have its own rules and guiding forces that are quite different…

Edited September 20 by Thrice Daily

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Antares said:

This was a recipe for external alchemy(外丹術). It uses lead(鉛) and mercury(汞) in the process. It was deadly. Hence, Taoists dropped the external practice and went to adopted the internal alchemy which known as Neidan method(內丹術).

[MIchael80]

8 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

This was a recipe for external alchemy(外丹術). It uses lead(鉛) and mercury(汞) in the process. It was deadly. Hence, Taoists dropped the external practice and went to adopted the internal alchemy which known as Neidan method(內丹術).

That is untrue! 

External alchemy still exists in some schools (also in India) and is very powerful. 

The external elixir = the red philosophers stone. 

Yes, mercury is used and it is deadly if you do not have a true teacher of these arts. If you have it is very powerful.

Idiots who thought they can learn that from books or find it out by themselves of course found out they could not. 

[ChiDragon]

32 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

Yes, mercury is used and it is deadly if you do not have a true teacher of these arts.

Did your true teacher put mercury into his cocktail and enjoy a good night sleep?

PS
There is no need to get upset. I am only speaking for the Chinese version of Neidan. I have no idea what the India practitioners are doing in their practice.

Edited September 20 by ChiDragon

[MIchael80]

8 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Did your true teacher put mercury into his cocktail and enjoy a good night sleep?

This true teacher healed a lot of people with mercury (proberly prepared).

[ChiDragon]

1 minute ago, MIchael80 said:

This true teacher healed a lot of people with mercury (proberly prepared).

That's great. I hope they will have a long life.

[Thrice Daily]

5 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

This true teacher healed a lot of people with mercury (proberly prepared).

So are you saying it's ingested in very small quantities mixed with lead. 

 

that's incredible, so it's a precise poison that Kickstarts a process in the body as a medicine. 

 

makes sense in a way. Any idea how it works physiologically? Blood, liver, or another organ?  Is there any understanding of the pathways it takes to the root of the problems at all?

5 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

1. 1 minute ago, MIchael80 said:

 

Edited September 20 by Thrice Daily

[MIchael80]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

That's great. I hope they will have a long life.

Since some of them where very sick and on the brick of death and then cured. 

I guess they enjoy each day with gratitude. 

Alchemical prepared mercury gives extremly long life. 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

The experiences with the Dan feel like they should be secret.

There is no secret about Neidan now. From what I've gather, nowadays, any practice is considered as Neidan as long it is good for the health of the body.

[forestofclarity]

Mod note

Regarding mercury: 

Mutually respectful discussion on the topic is welcome.

Due to the highly toxic nature of mercury and mercury containing compounds, including cinnabar, we feel that the potential for misuse and harm is high, consequently advocating or encouraging the ingestion of such compounds is not acceptable here and may be grounds for administrative action. 

Thanks for your cooperation.

[MIchael80]

4 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

So are you saying it's ingested in very small quantities mixed with lead. 

 

that's incredible, so it's a precise poison that Kickstarts a process in the body as a medicine. 

 

makes sense in a way. Any idea how it works physiologically? Blood, liver, or another organ?  Is there any understanding of the pathways it takes to the root of the problems at all?

No that is not what i said.

I said that mercury is poisonous in its usual state. If one knows the alchemical preparation it is not poisonous anymore (same for lead).

Then it becomes very life enhancing and is the basis of the external elixir = philosophers stone. 

 

Well the pathway is energetic. It clears the illness underlying karmic pattern,  the suppressed emotions that are part of it, the karmic debt ascociated with it. Seems to clear (or kill?) bad bacteria, viruses etc. And has strong body rebuilding effects. 

 

 

[MIchael80]

5 minutes ago, forestofclarity said:

Mod note

Regarding mercury: 

Mutually respectful discussion on the topic is welcome.

Due to the highly toxic nature of mercury and mercury containing compounds, including cinnabar, we feel that the potential for misuse and harm is high, consequently advocating or encouraging the ingestion of such compounds is not acceptable here and may be grounds for administrative action. 

Thanks for your cooperation.

I said that mercury is deadly and did not encourage anyone.

Only alchemical prepared is good. Dont understand your note.  Besides all here are adults and not 5 years old.

[Thrice Daily]

Some people are pretty easily led and hasty though Micheal, especially these days with attention spans..

 

it sounds like an incredibly niche operation. Certainly fascinating. 

 

Michael did I see you were sharing about Xing and Ming. It is an interesting topic. Can I ask would you switch back and forth in the same day cultivating both, is that normal operation in daily practice would you say?

 

 

[MIchael80]

13 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Some people are pretty easily led and hasty though Micheal, especially these days with attention spans..

 

it sounds like an incredibly niche operation. Certainly fascinating. 

 

Michael did I see you were sharing about Xing and Ming. It is an interesting topic. Can I ask would you switch back and forth in the same day cultivating both, is that normal operation in daily practice would you say?

 

 

I get you. But cuddeling adults more and more is not the answer. And how many got harmed by Meditation and Qigong? 

It is niche and very dangerous without the transmission how its done but we as adults should be able to talk about it in a normal way.

 

You should ask shadow self about that...he is much deeper in that practices.

From my point of view it depends on the stage you are at. The earlier stages are more ming the later more xing but usually there is a bit of both in all the stages (except the very high ones). 

And the elixir unites them.

 

Edited September 20 by MIchael80

[ChiDragon]

42 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

I said that mercury is deadly and did not encourage anyone.

Only alchemical prepared is good. Dont understand your note.  Besides all here are adults and not 5 years old.

Well, I understand the note perfectly clear. Mercury has been known as an poisonous element. The note simple says no matter how you treat it is still poisonous. I would be very careful in given advice to people using mercury as medicine.

Edited September 20 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

10 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

This was a recipe for external alchemy(外丹術). It uses lead(鉛) and mercury(汞) in the process

Thank you that this time mercury is not symbolism of muscles and lead is not intention how to contract muscles

You are making progress. Keep going

[Antares]

How would you translate this from that text: 次，地果还生 腹中觉有一物，活活泼泼，如盘走珠

why is it about external alchemy?

Edited September 21 by Antares