What is the dan in neidan and dan tian? 丹

[ChiDragon]

10 hours ago, Antares said:

次，地果还生 腹中觉有一物，活活泼泼，如盘走珠

next, the earth fruit return to life. It's like something in the belly, so lively, seems like a rolling bead.

 

This is only a fraction of the whole document. It doesn't indicate it is about external alchemy. You need to read the whole document. The dead give away was the mentioning of lead and mercury.

Edited September 21 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

I see. And what about this one?

 

[ChiDragon]

26 minutes ago, Antares said:

I see. And what about this one?

 

It's all BS.

 

[Apech]

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

It's all BS.

 

Who put the Dan in the Nei Nei Dan, 

who put the shen in the shen shen di woop?

 

 

[ChiDragon]

20 minutes ago, Apech said:

Who put the Dan in the Nei Nei Dan, 

who put the shen in the shen shen di woop?

 

 

No one puts it there. It was assumed that the Taoist came up with the notion of three treasures in the LDT. Imagining that the Jing, chi, and shen are interacting with each other by meditation involves with deep breathing.

Edited September 21 by ChiDragon

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

I see. And what about this one?

 

 

Honestly @Antares, what purpose does asking a person you already know has no experience of neidae/weidan how to interpret something thats all rather esoteric and not taught openly?

 

Do you understand you are probing a materialist ?

 

All this will do is further the repitition of the same misunderstandings, and take this thread further away from discussing what these things are

 

 

Edited September 21 by Shadow_self

[Thrice Daily]

I’m going to go out on a limb here @Shadow_self and say. I think there is a beautiful correlation between the Dan and any given Star in the universe. 
 

What do you think?

[Forestgreen]

 

Somewhere in the beginning of this thread, there were several stages if the "elixir" mentioned. 

Obviously, the process develops from coarse to fine.

 

Is the Dan red? (What's the color of money?)

In the first levels, maybe. 

 

Later on?

The nine reversed elixir cannot form if one still process the "red" substance(s) through visual consciousness ( that is implicit in the formula itself).  Can one awaken to reality if reality is percieved as red?

[Thrice Daily]

3 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

 

Somewhere in the beginning of this thread, there were several stages if the "elixir" mentioned. 

Obviously, the process develops from coarse to fine.

 

Is the Dan red? (What's the color of money?)

In the first levels, maybe. 

 

Later on?

The nine reversed elixir cannot form if one still process the "red" substance(s) through visual consciousness ( that is implicit in the formula itself).  Can one awaken to reality if reality is percieved as red?

I’ve had this experience and returning to the visual as red seems to be a no no and produces no next step.

 

Just my experience. It was unnatural to try to return to it as another part of the process had already flowered.
 

 

[Antares]

13 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Do you understand you are probing a materialist ?

But I assume he believes that qi exists. Look at his nickname. Probably his viewpoint is limited. I wonder what is the goal of the external alchemy from that point of view. Probably turning stones into gold? 

[forestofclarity]

8 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Is the Dan red? (What's the color of money?)

 

Some of the older neidan texts suggest that there may be different methods and results for different purposes. For instance, the Book of Balance and Harmony lists many different side paths and auxiliary techniques, Nathan Brine lists at least 9 lesser pills in Wang Liping's system, Eva Wong's translation of the Chung Lu Chuan Tao Chi indicates different methods and levels of immortality. 

[Forestgreen]

15 minutes ago, forestofclarity said:

 Eva Wong's translation of the Chung Lu Chuan Tao Chi indicates different methods and levels of immortality. 

As does Livia Kohns translation. 

I also believe, or tend to rest on texts that state so, that different methods leads to different results. 

[ChiDragon]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:48 AM, Antares said:

I see. And what about this one?

 

Sinece you so fond of this, what is your take on this one? What did you get out of it? May I ask？

[Forestgreen]

On 2024-09-22 at 10:11 PM, ChiDragon said:

Sinece you so fond of this, what is your take on this one? What did you get out of it? May I ask？

Most likely you will not get a direct answer to that question, for a couple of reasons. 

 

Most of the text is about those aspects that differs from your view of the noble art of internal alchemical practice. 

 

It is not about deep abdominal breathing and/or the oxygenation of blood. 

 

It is not about the lower abdominal area being the lower dantian either, nor is it about swallowing saliva or a reminder that deep breathing calms the mind. 

 

It is definetly not about seminal fluid.

 

I think that covers most of it, or at least, fails to explain any of it.

 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

at least, fails to explain any of it.

WOW Actually, it did not say anything that is really meaningful! I don't think whoever cited that quote understands what it says. Anyway, thank you for paying so much attention and following my thoughts. I do appreciate that.

[damdao]

Or, maybe the poem speaks about the moment and place of springing the one spark of true yang. 

Maybe you can read in it the body location and the time for practice.

Maybe... I will reread the whole work later.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 minute ago, damdao said:

Or, maybe the poem speaks about the moment and place of springing the one spark of true yang. 

Maybe you can read in it the body location and the time for practice.

Maybe... I will reread the whole work later.

🤫

[Forestgreen]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

WOW Actually, it did xxx say xxx something that is really meaningful! 

Now, I corrected that statement for you.

 

It does describe something meaningful. 

 

As damdao writes, it describes a location and a result based on the practice of certain methods. 

 

It is just a common practice in daoist and hindu traditions to write stuff in a way that conceals the meaning. 

Edited September 25 by Forestgreen
And yes, I put changes in the quoted part. The X marks the spot...

[Antares]

2 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

It is just a common practice in daoist and hindu traditions to write stuff in a way that conceals the meaning. 

Yes exactly. I understand it practically. It is not disclosed to the public coz many people like inventing their own methods. 

I can say this applicable even to the wuji stance if done correctly or even to the warm up if u do right one.

This is certain principle. But honestly i cant say i get it fully yet.

One needs to realize what is the Lead and Mercury. Why Mercury is more liquid than Lead and that is hint

[Antares]

On 22.09.2024 at 11:11 PM, ChiDragon said:

what is your take on this one?

It's all not BS

[Forestgreen]

21 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

One needs to realize what is the Lead and Mercury. Why Mercury is more liquid than Lead and that is hint

I find the daoist terms less useful than the hindu/buddhist ones. 

[Antares]

13 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

I find the daoist terms less useful than the hindu/buddhist ones. 

Yes daoist terms are quite tough to realize. That is why teacher is needed. As for hindu/buddhist the issue is whether they have preserved ancient methods which are equal to daoist ones. I personally dont like the concept of kundalini for example and the way they do it. I recall the theory of BKF who brought forward the idea of "water" and "fire" path. Hindu methods are based more on fire and more dangerous and not sure whether they still correct. I know there are still hindu alchemists in southern India but it is quite hard even to get into that lineage. I know a person who has been living there for 5 years now hoping to find that lineage people there. He did daoist methods and got visitation of a Hindu God from higher realm who told him to go to southern India

Personally to me it is strange he went there, he could go on with daoist path... Does not matter how u get there...

JUST DO IT

Edited September 25 by Antares

[ChiDragon]

I don't jump back and forth between systems. I stay with the Chinese Taoist concepts. I didn't touch any of the Hindus stuff to confuse the hell out of everybody. No thanks!

Edited September 25 by ChiDragon

[Antares]

8 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I stay with the Chinese Taoist concepts. I

BTW what does Dragon symbolize, you know it?

[ChiDragon]

58 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

I find the daoist terms less useful than the hindu/buddhist ones. 

Ofc The Taoist terms are esoteric and only a Chinese Taoist may understand them with their own interpretation.