The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong

[ChiDragon]

氣 Chi or Qi is the most confusing term to be comprehended. What is Chi and Qigong? Unfortunately, the first thing come into people's mind is Energy. In my mind, chi is always deal with breathing. Therefore, Qigong is the practice of breathing. To others, Qigong is the cultivation of energy. However, I am finally realized that we are only got it half right. So to speak.

I had looked more closely and investigated what chi is all about. According to the Taoist definition, Chi is one of the treasures in the internal alchemy to acquire neidan. It is clear to me now that there four kinds of Chi in the body. So, we are talking about Qigong is not just the cultivation of breathing nor energy.

There are four kind of chi existed in the body. They are 元氣, 宗氣, 營氣, 衛氣. All the terms has a character 氣 on them. The first to do is to ignore the chi character. It is because they a compound character. In this case, the chi character is only a classifier for a substance.
元氣(Yuan chi) : is the prenatal micro-unit that makes up the structure of the human body

宗氣(Zong chi) : is the air breathed from space

營氣(Ying Chi) : is the nourishment from the food that is flowing in the blood

衛氣(Wei Chi) : is the immune system to protect the body from pathogens that might attack the body internally.

The cultivation of Chi Qong, it would be involved and included the four kinds of chi. Therefore, the cultivation of 宗氣(Zong chi) is by improving the breathing habit to enhance the respiratory system. To cultivate 營氣(Ying Chi) is by eating the right food to nourish the human body.

The 元氣(Yuan chi) and 衛氣(Wei Chi) cannot be cultivated by external means. Hence, by the cultivation of 宗氣(Zong chi) and 營氣(Ying Chi) will take care the 元氣(Yuan chi) and 衛氣(Wei Chi) internally.

Eating food is the easiest to cultivate for nourishment . However, Qigong is the most difficult to cultivate. Especially, people with breathing problems. It require lots of effort and practice to improve bad breathing habits.  Indeed, Qigong can change and improve any bad breathing habit. Finally, the breathing is still plays the major part in the cultivation of Qigong.


 

Edited October 18 by ChiDragon

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

From “Chinese Massage Manual” by Sarah Pritchard 

 

Edited September 19 by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[salaam123]

If you do standing qigong correctly, you will cultivate a thick liquid inside your body. I guess it comes from the earth. This is called Huang. You can even cultivate it by sitting in a chair using the internet. If your bodymechanics are correct, you may feel something even in one day.

Any thoughts?

[ChiDragon]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:15 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

From “Chinese Massage Manual” by Sarah Pritchard 

 

In TCM, the esoteric chi(氣) often means the function of a system or something else. By the definition of deficient chi(氣虛), it simply means the function of an organ or the area that is associated with organ is malfunction. Thus deficient chi(氣虛) doesn't means that the chi was lack of. People are most often thought something was missing when the term was mentioned. This term is very esoteric. Hence, it was difficult for people to interpret it and comprehension. 

When a herbalist said 腎氣虛, the direction translation would be the "deficient chi of the kidney". Actually, the interpretation should be treated as the " kidney is malfunction." Even Chinese natives think of the same way, it was properly how it was transposed to the west. 

Edited October 3 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

The interpretation of stagnation of liver chi.
It simply means that the liver is malfunction. It cannot carry out its normal duty for the next organ to function properly. The biological process stops. Thus it was to be said that is the stagnation of the liver chi.

This thinking is hard for people to convert to the indirect interpretation. Sorry to say, people are just stuck with direct translation without the proper interpretation.

[Iskote]

Actually, there are differences between the way 'qi' is described and classified and utilized in traditional Chinese medicine systems and also in other various cultivation practices/systems, such as in some daoist or buddhist traditions, and in martial arts, etc. Even within daoism and buddhism, there may be notable differences between how different schools and groups view and express concepts such as qi, etc. Also, qi may also be classified in further ways by some, such as sky (universe/heaven) qi, Earth qi, qi from planets, moon qi, qi from streams and rivers and lakes, qi from mountains, qi from trees and plants, sick/turbid qi, healthy qi, yin qi, yang qi, etc., etc.   

 

In modern times, especially in the West,  we like to try to pin things down to very exact definitions and classifications, but from what I have observed, historically in China, etc., they seem to have used such terms and concepts much more loosely and fluidly and symbolically. Trying to pin things down to very exact classifications and very exact meanings etc. IMO is an exercise in futility, given the wide range of views and approaches from various different traditions. This may not sit well at all with people who want to try to put everything in neat little boxes, but many of these terms and concepts originate from a different time when thinking and the way of looking at things was quite a bit different than in modern times. Using loosely defined and fluid terminology and much symbolism seems to have been in common practice back then.  IMO, trying to determine exact definitions based on literal meanings of Chinese characters and that sort of thing is almost certain to take you way off track. What's important is the end results. Are you getting benefits from a certain approach and certain practices? If so, good. If not, look for something else that may be more suitable to you and your needs and wants. Don't get hung up on trying to determine exact terms and definitions and concepts, as IMO that is not going to be very productive and such rigid thinking may only hold you back in the long run. "Internal experience" is not conducive to rigid terms and concepts (linear analytical thinking, if you will). Inner experience can be very difficult to put into exact words and exact rigid concepts, and trying to do so can actually be a hindrance IMO. Use terms and concepts to get a loose or general idea, but the actual experience and end results are what is important. If looking at things a certain way at the current time is helpful to you, then, good. If not, then look for a more suitable way to look at things at this moment in time. That's my current point of view, anyway.  

[ChiDragon]

15 hours ago, Iskote said:

Actually, there are differences between the way 'qi' is described and classified and utilized in traditional Chinese medicine systems and also in other various cultivation practices/systems, such as in some daoist or buddhist traditions, and in martial arts, etc. Even within daoism and buddhism, there may be notable differences between how different schools and groups view and express concepts such as qi, etc. Also, qi may also be classified in further ways by some, such as sky (universe/heaven) qi, Earth qi, qi from planets, moon qi, qi from streams and rivers and lakes, qi from mountains, qi from trees and plants, sick/turbid qi, healthy qi, yin qi, yang qi, etc., etc.   

Yes, the characters 炁 and 氣 were not used very loosely. However, how Chinese thinking works is by the interpretation of the character within context other than its individual definition.

 

15 hours ago, Iskote said:

In modern times, especially in the West,  we like to try to pin things down to very exact definitions and classifications, but from what I have observed, historically in China, etc., they seem to have used such terms and concepts much more loosely and fluidly and symbolically. Trying to pin things down to very exact classifications and very exact meanings etc. IMO is an exercise in futility, given the wide range of views and approaches from various different traditions. 

The characters in the Chinese language are very flexible. Almost all characters can be used as a verb or noun depends on context. I am sorry for the westerners. As soon they saw the character chi, it was assumed as 'energy'. As result, everything was misinterpreted completely.
 

Edited October 18 by ChiDragon

[Iskote]

On 10/17/2024 at 3:25 PM, ChiDragon said:

Yes, the characters 炁 and 氣 were not used very loosely. However, how Chinese thinking works is by the interpretation of the character within context other than its individual definition.

The characters in the Chinese language are very flexible. Almost all characters can be used as a verb or noun depends on context. I am sorry for the westerners. As soon they saw the character chi, it was assumed as 'energy'. As result, everything was misinterpreted completely.
 

 

My own experience is as I stated previously. This subject is really not so clear cut at all. 

Certainly qi is not just 'air' or 'oxygen', or food energy, nor is any sort of special breathing a strict requirement to do qigong. 

There are many types of qigong approaches and methods and many types of meditation, as well. I believe this has already been pointed out to you on many occasions in the past by various people.   Qigong is not ever learned and understood at all by reading a few books and then imposing rigid and poorly informed opinions on it. Deeper understanding of qi and qigong is only gained through long practice and experience. Logical analysis and argumentation will never lead a person to any real or valid understanding of qi or qigong. This last sentence can't be emphasized enough, IMO  

 

Over the years I have personally met several Chinese traditional qigong and meditation and internal arts teachers who have referred to qi as 'energy' in English. The term 'energy' or 'life force energy' is often used to describe qi, because that is at least a fairly loose general fit for the overall concept of qi, to accommodate qi in all its various forms. In my experience, if one were to only equate qi to 'air' or 'breathing' or 'oxygen', and energy from food, and similar, they would be only scratching the surface of the overall depth of the concept of qi. 

 

 

Edited October 21 by Iskote

[ChiDragon]

22 hours ago, Iskote said:

Over the years I have personally met several Chinese traditional qigong and meditation and internal arts teachers who have referred to qi as 'energy' in English. The term 'energy' or 'life force energy' is often used to describe qi, because that is at least a fairly loose general fit for the overall concept of qi, to accommodate qi in all its various forms. In my experience, if one were to only equate qi to 'air' or 'breathing' or 'oxygen', and energy from food, and similar, they would be only scratching the surface of the overall depth of the concept of qi. 

That was how the traditional teachers are telling the people the traditional way. People were already accepted as facts with no justification. Since the traditional way has no justification,  it is easy to tell people simply something that to make a buck. I will not argue about that. I am only tried to tell it scientifically to convince myself. I cannot emphasize enough that Qi could be anything depends on context. I cannot and will not just take somebody's word, blindly, without any justification. That's all. 

If anyone who is tired of hearing of what I'm saying, then, please put me on your ignore list. I will say the same thing again even someone  put a gun through my head.

Peace!

Edited October 21 by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

I think its a bit difficult to 'say' anything with a gun through your head .    

 

Thanks Iskote   .

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Maybe the real qi is the friends we make along the way 

[Master Logray]

8 hours ago, Iskote said:

 

My own experience is as I stated previously. This subject is really not so clear cut at all. 

Certainly qi is not just 'air' or 'oxygen', or food energy, nor is any sort of special breathing a strict requirement to do qigong. 

 

 

 

The term Chi/Qi is so widely used that non-Chinese speakers would not understand.   The link below counted over 1200 words/terms contains "Chi".    I don't know how many are directly or indirectly related to qigong, martial arts or cultivation, possibly hundreds.

 

https://www.chinesewords.org/dict/list-75-154.html

 

So if we just give "Chi" the most basic meaning of "air" and develop theory out of it would mostly likely be wrong i.e. 1199/1200.

 

 

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Maybe the real qi is the friends we make along the way 

 

 

[Cobie]

14 hours ago, Master Logray said:

The term Chi/Qi is so widely used that non-Chinese speakers would not understand ...

Exactly. A while back I posted on the forum a very long list, the meanings of 道 . A character is a semantic field, and very flexible.   
 

 

Edited October 21 by Cobie

[Cobie]

14 hours ago, Master Logray said:

… over 1200 words/terms contains "Chi".    

So if we just give "Chi" the most basic meaning of "air" … it would mostly likely be wrong i.e. 1199/1200.

That’s not how it works. The list is of various distinct meanings. "Chi" often has the most basic meaning of just "air"; it all depends on the contex.
 

 

Edited October 21 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

On 10/20/2024 at 10:45 PM, Nungali said:

I think its a bit difficult to 'say' anything with a gun through your head .    

 

Thanks Iskote   .

It is only a figure of speech. It means put a bullet through my head. It takes a little imagination with a Chinese speaker. Same thing with Qi.  A slightly off tone, the meaning will be thousand miles away. How would you think about that? That is why I can't communicate with westerners and easterners. I am really suffocating when I am talking about Chi here.

People always think of what they wanted to be meant and never tried to listen what others are saying. I am so sorry that the Chinese invented the character 氣 to confuse themselves and the whole wide world.

I have never said that Chi is always meant air. It only means 'air' when we are talking breathing in context.

PS @Cobie Thank you for being here to defend me!

Edited October 22 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

14 hours ago, Master Logray said:

The term Chi/Qi is so widely used that non-Chinese speakers would not understand.

Amen, brother! I bow to you on both knees!

PS And @Cobie too!

Edited October 21 by ChiDragon

[Master Logray]

The Chinese sometimes don't understand their language too.   Almost 1000 years ago in the Song Dynasty, cultivators started to use the term "炁" instead of the normal "氣", to avoid mixing up.  This word represents the genuine Chi (the energy), pre-heaven Chi, not the post-heaven or everyday breathing.    The upper part of the word means nothingness and the lower part is fire.   This Chi is only used by Immortalists but not common people. 

[Cobie]

@ChiDragon that’s what friends are for. 
 

 

Edited October 22 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

18 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

It is only a figure of speech. It means put a bullet through my head. It takes a little imagination with a Chinese speaker. 

Exactly. English is incredibly precise with prepositions, and it has far more of them than Chinese. In Chinese the reader deduces from the context what’s meant.

 

 

[Cobie]

 

On 21/10/2024 at 7:45 AM, Nungali said:

I think its a bit difficult to 'say' anything with a gun through your head .   

 

It was perfectly clear what CD meant. I guess you don’t speak another language, so possibly have no idea how disheartening it is (for foreign language users) to read such stupid jokes. 

@ChiDragon kudos to you for your excellent English! I’ve been trying to learn Chinese for about 6 years now (quite unsuccessfully ). So I really appreciate the effort involved, seeing how different the languages are.

 

 

Edited October 22 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

18 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

…. People always think of what they wanted to be meant and never tried to listen whet others are saying. 

Yes. You have your ideas. They’re based on a lifetime of practice and study, and they’re rational. Followed they will actually benefit health. So I really do not understand all the objections. 
 

 

Edited October 22 by Cobie

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

23 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Yes. You have your ideas. They’re based on a lifetime of practice and study, and they’re rational. Followed they will actually benefit health. So I really do not understand all the objections. 
 

 

A lifetime of practice and study but not the ability to feel qi? Many people accomplish that in less than a lifetime.

[blue eyed snake]

15 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

A lifetime of practice and study but not the ability to feel qi? Many people accomplish that in less than a lifetime.

 

the first session in the dojo,

 

i was like

whew, how can i have missed this all those decades before

[Cobie]

34 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

A lifetime of practice and study but not the ability to feel qi? …

 

You asked me something like this before and I answered something like: just enjoy your own practice and let others be.
Imo you may want to look into why it seems so threatening to you that not all people define qi the way you do.

 

Edited October 23 by Cobie