The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong

[Cobie]

@-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- found it. 
 

On 14/10/2024 at 9:25 PM, Cobie said:

Terms get used by different people in different ways. Imo best to respect other people’s ideas even when they go against your own ideas about ‘facts’ and ‘checking’. Sometimes it’s best to stick to your own teacher and path, and just ignore the people that are on an entirely different path. Peace. 

 

Edited October 23 by Cobie

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

16 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

You asked me something like this before and I answered something like: just enjoy your own practice and let others be.
Imo you may want to look into why it seems so threatening to you that not all people define qi the way you do.

 

My only problem is when people speak like an authority about things they don’t know about. Many people are guilty of it on this site though.

[Cobie]

Dutch idiom: Wat je zegt dat ben je zelf.

In English: What you blame someone else for, or what irritates you about him or her, says a lot about you. 
 

 

Edited October 23 by Cobie

[blue eyed snake]

to me it also the way @ChiDragon speaks as if he is an authority.

He's not, you're not and  I am not either.

 

It is his opinion, that opinion runs contrary to a gazillion different schools and lineages that describe chi as something that does cause tangible sensations. So let's not sell our opinions as truth and be clear they are opinions.

 

 

getting back to the rules of DDB i read:

 

Quote

TDBs' social format is "cafeteria", not "classroom".  It's part of TDBs' premise that, broadly in culture, these two formats are necessary, distinct yet complementary.

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

to me it also the way @ChiDragon speaks as if he is an authority.

He's not, you're not and  I am not either.

 

It is his opinion, that opinion runs contrary to a gazillion different schools and lineages that describe chi as something that does cause tangible sensations. So let's not sell our opinions as truth and be clear they are opinions.

 

 

getting back to the rules of DDB i read:

 

 

Exactly. If posts were started with “In my opinion…” there would be no issue.

[Cobie]

Imo there’s a stage where the persistent targeting and  questioning of one particular person, in this case CD, becomes a form of bullying. I’ve reported this post for the attention of the admods.
 

Edited October 23 by Cobie

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

27 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Imo

I liked this

[dwai]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

Imo there’s a stage where the persistent targeting and  questioning of one particular person, in this case CD, becomes a form of bullying. I’ve reported this post for the attention of the admods.
 

Moderator's Note: Mutual respect needs to be the bedrock of any interaction; otherwise, we will lower the level of discourse very quickly. If members don't like CD's posts, please put him on ignore or use the downvote feature. There is no need for name-calling and/or ad hominem. At the same time, it is not a bad idea for CD to introspect why he is generating such reactions from within the community.

[ChiDragon]

On 10/22/2024 at 9:31 AM, Master Logray said:

The Chinese sometimes don't understand their language too.   Almost 1000 years ago in the Song Dynasty, cultivators started to use the term "炁" instead of the normal "氣", to avoid mixing up.  This word represents the genuine Chi (the energy), pre-heaven Chi, not the post-heaven or everyday breathing.    The upper part of the word means nothingness and the lower part is fire.   This Chi is only used by Immortalists but not common people. 

炁 is a matter that was never touched by fire. It is the primordial matter or the basic unit that makes up all the things in the universe. Then the character 气 comes into the picture as air that we breathe. The major source of food is rice(米) for the Chinese to give them energy. The Taoist realized that from eating and breathing are the source of vitality. So the character for the vital energy is 氣. 

氣 is the combination of 气 and 米
What a coincidence ATP energy is oxygen and glucose!
 

The translation about the compound character 先天.  It was translated as pre-heaven and poorly translated to begin with. The correct translation is prenatal or before birth. The logic of pre-heaven or post-heaven doesn't flow. It is because heaven is heaven. There is no heaven before or after our times. Besides, 天  means sky not heaven(天堂). Chinese thought and treated the sky as their god is because the sky is high above. Thus the Chinese, initially, thought that everything was originated from the sky. In the same token, 後天 is postnatal or after birth rather than post-heaven.
 

Edited Tuesday at 06:36 PM by ChiDragon

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Moderator's Note: Mutual respect needs to be the bedrock of any interaction; otherwise, we will lower the level of discourse very quickly. If members don't like CD's posts, please put him on ignore or use the downvote feature. There is no need for name-calling and/or ad hominem. At the same time, it is not a bad idea for CD to introspect why he is generating such reactions from within the community.

I’m sorry but can we at least change the title of this thread to “The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong (OPINION)” or “The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in (Specific Type of Qigong)” as there is not only four kinds in every qigong system?

 

Or even simply “Types of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong” 

 

Such absolute statements are misleading for newcomers wishing to learn. 

Edited October 23 by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[Cobie]

 

On 22/10/2024 at 6:31 PM, Master Logray said:

… 炁 …  This Chi is only used by Immortalists but not common people

Righto. I’m definitely common.  

 

Quote

… 氣  … the post-heaven or everyday breathing.

 

So that again leaves me with qi being only air. Right?
 

 

Edited October 23 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

IMHO If it is an opinion, then, it is something that someone is not sure of. Why should I post something that I am not sure of?
I have used justification to back up my claims and done my homework!

[Cobie]

 

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

…

my digest:

 

炁 primordial matter or the basic unit that makes up all the things, from 先天

氣 air+food; during 後天 

 

先天 prenatal; 

後天 postnatal; 

 

We are made, before birth, of 炁 , and after birth we need 气 air and 米 food i.e. 氣 .
Makes sense to me. 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Cobie

[forestofclarity]

2 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Such absolute statements are misleading for newcomers wishing to learn. 

 

Welcome to the Daobums! 

[dwai]

4 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I’m sorry but can we at least change the title of this thread to “The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong (OPINION)” or “The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in (Specific Type of Qigong)” as there is not only four kinds in every qigong system?

 

Or even simply “Types of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong” 

 

Such absolute statements are misleading for newcomers wishing to learn. 

If you like to counter him, make a different post countering his perspective. I think its time we put this bickering behind us. 

[Nungali]

On 22/10/2024 at 10:01 AM, Cobie said:

That’s not how it works. The list is of various distinct meanings. "Chi" often has the most basic meaning of just "air"; it all depends on the contex.
 

 

 

English is a good language for  .....  commerce  ?  But otherwise    mhe .

 

We need   CONTEXT ,  eg  'love'    , whereas the Greek terms that translate to English 'love' already had context , eg. eros / agape , they need an English contextual phrase to understand the 'types' of love  .

Persian is the language of poetry , French of love (supposedly ) , German  ... engineering        and Dutch  ......   ?

 

Cobie  ?  

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

If you like to counter him, make a different post countering his perspective. I think it’s time we put this bickering behind us. 

I did with a source, but the point was ignored or not realised 

Edited October 24 by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[Nungali]

On 22/10/2024 at 10:31 AM, ChiDragon said:

It is only a figure of speech. It means put a bullet through my head.

 

 

 

Nah .

Still hard to do with a bullet through your head   .     

 

I believe the phrase you need is;   " even though a gun is put to my head  " .

 

English is tricky ; German friend complaining about  police traffic fine ;   " And then the policeman, he pulled me off ! "  - everyone listening is  .... his GF interrupted,  " I think the phrase you mean is ' and then he  'pulled me over ' ." 

 

 

On 22/10/2024 at 10:31 AM, ChiDragon said:

 

 

It takes a little imagination with a Chinese speaker. Same thing with Qi.  A slightly off tone, the meaning will be thousand miles away. How would you think about that? That is why I can't communicate with westerners and easterners. I am really suffocating when I am talking about Chi here.

 

Try Polynesian ; six ways of pronouncing a vowel including a 'glottal stop '  ;    '     which is no sound at all   and not only that it can appear at the beginning of a word , which has a stop in a sentence before it anyway  and meaning can change between  eg

 

'he -  can  - run -  fast ' needs breaks between words or you get 'hecanrunfast'  , but 'he can run 'fast ' with a subtle different stop before the fast can change meaning .  AND they do talk quickly allinonegoaswell . 

People always think of what they wanted to be meant and never tried to listen what others are saying. I am so sorry that the Chinese invented the character 氣 to confuse themselves and the whole wide world.

I have never said that Chi is always meant air. It only means 'air' when we are talking breathing in context.

 

But you didnt say that at first and ot took sooooooo long to get 'here' .

PS @Cobie Thank you for being here to defend me!

 

What ???  I get no thanks for forcing it all out of you  ?    (and I dont mean the 'air ' )

 

[Nungali]

On 23/10/2024 at 4:50 AM, Cobie said:

 

 

It was perfectly clear what CD meant. I guess you don’t speak another language, so possibly have no idea how disheartening it is (for foreign language users) to read such stupid jokes. 

 

Gingi walla widtha Coby , bugglebar yalladuhlah .

 

(Lighten up  ... he 'got there ' . )
 

 

 

 

[Chang dao ling]

So what kinds of chi is cultivated in neidan?

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

Imo there’s a stage where the persistent targeting and  questioning of one particular person, in this case CD, becomes a form of bullying. I’ve reported this post for the attention of the admods.
 

 

Eh ?  What post ? the one above yours that said posting IMO at the beginning of a post makes it clear you are not being 'authoritative ' ? ?  ?

 

Oh damn , I just wrote that too ... I suppose I will be reported as well   .

 

Or is it another 'translation thingo '  ?

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I’m sorry but can we at least change the title of this thread to “The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong (OPINION)” or “The four kinds of Chi to be cultivated in (Specific Type of Qigong)” as there is not only four kinds in every qigong system?

 

Or even simply “Types of Chi to be cultivated in Qigong” 

 

Such absolute statements are misleading for newcomers wishing to learn. 

 

Allow me , again ?   More translation issues perhaps ?

 

'Four of the kinds of Chi '    - is that better  ?

[Master Logray]

I think this situation comes from CD's intention to teach/preach, seeing the very persistent postings about a single and subsequently related topics.    Normally if we post very innovative opinion, like I suddenly occur that Chi comes from the breath of the 4 turtles supporting this earth.  At most I would receive cute comments from Nungali.  Then it ends.

 

While a very persistent poster would carry on no matter what.   It could force other members to continually rebuke or down vote everyday every post.  This creates disharmony.   

 

Is my observation correct?  CD

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

23 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

Chi comes from the breath of the 4 turtles supporting this earth. 

Um actually chi doesn’t only come from the breath of these turtles and there are more than 4 of them

[moment]

3 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Um actually chi doesn’t only come from the breath of these turtles and there are more than 4 of them

Please stop cherry-picking.  Quote entire comment so that context is shown. I think you may be trying to soften things and of course Master Logray is right above you, but, always quote with full context, anyway---it is important.  I thank you now and in advance.

Edited October 24 by moment