Golden Dragon - Kunlun or other arts?

[oceanside]

What are they becoming?

 

My comment was in reference to Satori's behavior. It hasn't

happened to everyone but to enough Kunlun people that

it has made me rethink this path. -O- was the first Kunlun person

who posted that showed me something else, and of course Max. I always liked the

way Max wrote about things too.

 

I haven't meant to offend with my comments. If I have then I'm truly sorry

about that.

 

I won't be posting again.

[Satori]

I will speak from many perspectives depending on the situation. Give it raw or refined, depending on what I feel is needed.

 

I am my own person and I don't need Trunks approval or anyone else's for validation.

 

Attacking me won't refute what I have told you. That part is true dude and you know it. Being a scholar won't help you either. You are no more of an authority than anyone else Mr. Trunk. You still act from fear.

[oceanside]

I will speak from many perspectives depending on the situation. Give it raw or refined, depending on what I feel is needed.

 

I am my own person and I don't need Trunks approval or anyone else's for validation.

 

You did help me. My sincerest thanks for illustrating the definition of EGO-PENIS.

[freeform]

While many people do benefit from Kunlun, over the course of yrs the community has recognized that there are also sometimes seriously freaky dangerous problems (link) that are not obvious in the beginning that can affect not only you (the seminar participant) but also those in your home, including children.

 

I have utmost respect for Trunk, and he's been very level-headed, non-dramatic and extremely helpful to the community of online cultivators. So I don't like reading assumptions about Trunk scaremongering or having some kind of 'agenda', because I know that Trunk always comes from a place of service and compassion.

 

I do, however, take issue with 'seriously freaky dangerous problems' in the case of Yoda (I do like the phrase though ). In all honesty Yoda, who I also respect deeply, has not really put forth any real evidence of any actual harm beyond what fear and paranoia could twist an event to make it seem sinister. Yoda's wife believes he is over-reacting - the only real 'harm' is that his daughter started talking about ghosts, wakes up in the night, has shaken kunlun style etc.

 

Yesterday I saw something that made me think of this situation.. This family was walking along and the small child fell over. As she fell over she looked at her mother - the mother immediately reacted with shock and horror - you could see it in her face in a split second, and as soon as the child saw this she started crying, wailing, tears everywhere. I have also witnessed a similar event where the parent made no big deal, the child just got up, got a hug and carried on.

 

Children tend to look to adults to learn how to react to what's there! So if the parent puts a 'bad' spin on what the child witnesses, that's how it will play out.

 

Yoda enjoys the freaky side of life... you can see it in pretty much every practice he's taken up... at the moment he is involved in a lineage which was 'revealed' to someone by an 'ascended master' - the system is heavily concerned with spirits, gods, deities, talismans, and other magickal techniques... nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be taken into account!

 

So Yoda was always pushing for the 'freaky experiences' in Kunlun... he was at some point really excited as was his daughter that she really 'got' kunlun... a lot of the stories of his daughter waking up in the night and doing spontaneous movements were presented with a very positive spin. Something spooked Yoda, and suddenly everything that was the evidence of effective practice took on a sinister spin and became evidence for something being very wrong.

 

So

 

I'm not saying there are no problems with the practice. I'm open to the possibility, but there was only really a couple of cases (one I think was dizzydazzle's experience and mgd's) where it struck me that something actually went wrong beyond 'personal stuff', but dizzydazzle refused to reveal any more (I'm genuinely interested) and mgd's experience became very clouded by an emotional drama that made it almost impossible to distinguish any concrete problem from mgd's own spin on things.

 

I think it's important to be level headed with this, stay out of the drama and actually watch what's there without engaging too much of our own 'stuff'.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I will speak from many perspectives depending on the situation. Give it raw or refined, depending on what I feel is needed.

 

I am my own person and I don't need Trunks approval or anyone else's for validation.

 

Attacking me won't refute what I have told you. That part is true dude and you know it. Being a scholar won't help you either. You are no more of an authority than anyone else Mr. Trunk. You still act from fear.

 

Everyone here speaks their own perspectives in order to learn and discuss (or maybe not). If else, why post? It is the best way to let people decide their own minds as to what is the most wholesome approach.

 

Insults are good in their own right, IMO it brings more to the table. .

 

I really do hope you continue to post here and contribute on things not only relating to Kunlun. Well, unless you really believe that the Taobums will endanger your safety because of the reptilians.

[Mantra68]

Satori is definitely his own guy. He doesn't claim to represent anything other than himself. He is "school free" and "teacher-free" these days, having found his truth within.

 

He knows Max's stuff as well as anyone, but he is one of those people who flat out tells you like it is.

 

He has verbally slapped me a couple of times and while it may have angered me at the time, I realized later that he was dead-on correct.

 

It might sound odd to say, but he is quite accomplished in his understanding of the Tao and is considered more like a contraire or wrathfully compassionate spirit in his slicing-through-the-bullsh*t approach.

 

He does have everybody's best interest at heart believe it or not.

[TexasNative]

Satori is definitely his own guy. He doesn't claim to represent anything other than himself. He is "school free" and "teacher-free" these days, having found his truth within.

 

He knows Max's stuff as well as anyone, but he is one of those people who flat out tells you like it is.

 

He has verbally slapped me a couple of times and while it may have angered me at the time, I realized later that he was dead-on correct.

 

It might sound odd to say, but he is quite accomplished in his understanding of the Tao and is considered more like a contraire or wrathfully compassionate spirit in his slicing-through-the-bullsh*t approach.

 

He does have everybody's best interest at heart believe it or not.

 

EGO-PENIS. Both of you.

[Trunk]

...

Your tone has become more real, and I appreciate that.

 

Our conclusions intersect, though (obviously) not completely. My original post in this thread (though I did briefly mention benefits) emphasized difficulties with dramatic wording. Taken out of context promoted drama; my mistake. My wording will be more neutral in the future.

 

(I've said this before, but..) If you'd followed and read the links (which it seems to me that you still haven't and I invite you to do so), you'd see that I and others openly acknowledged the good parts and the difficulties with KL. After reading a number of people's experiences, it looks to me like there's both. Your opinion may vary. I've stated my views in a well-rounded way in the old threads, gave credit where credit was due, no need for me to repeat endlessly here.

 

There's a tendency for those loyal to an organization to over-emphasize the good stuff and explain away (diminish, deflect) difficulties. While maybe this starts from a good intent, "this is a good organization and I want to protect/promote it". - My observation is that this is ultimately a dis-service to both the organization and those that it's trying to serve. Difficulties don't get faced and resolved, and that inhibits real flourishing. This happens in any organization, unfortunately especially in spirituals and charities - because the loyalty and devotion is so strong there to begin with. In my opinion, this factor is at play. Your view may vary.

 

Other activities call.

This has been more than enough here for now.

 

cheers,

Trunk

[TexasNative]

Difficulties don't get faced and resolved, and that inhibits real flourishing.

 

My take on all of this is that they don't want to resolve difficulties.

 

They want you to leave and be teacher free and school free.

 

You don't need them anymore Trunk and you will

never teach them anything, they aren't open

to it.

 

They will also never openly admit or

accept responsibility for

anything.

Edited July 27, 2009 by TexasNative

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yesterday I saw something that made me think of this situation.. This family was walking along and the small child fell over. As she fell over she looked at her mother - the mother immediately reacted with shock and horror - you could see it in her face in a split second, and as soon as the child saw this she started crying, wailing, tears everywhere. I have also witnessed a similar event where the parent made no big deal, the child just got up, got a hug and carried on.

 

Children tend to look to adults to learn how to react to what's there! So if the parent puts a 'bad' spin on what the child witnesses, that's how it will play out.

 

I've noticed this often with really young kids. Even if you watch "Funniest Home Videos" or other similar video tv shows, you come across videos of kids doing something, but when they fall, or if something breaks, they IMMEDIATELY turn their head to the camera (the adult viewing.... it's actually kinda freaky how fast they turn, and their eyes get really big). They just WAIT for a response. If the parent goes "ooooh, are you hurt?" they cry, if the parents starts laughing, they laugh. It's actually kind of funny I've made up my mind that if it ever happens to me, I'm gonna stare right back at the kid until he does something himself (I hope I have the presence of mind to actually do that when it happens)

 

As for Yoda, I do recall reading threads that were like "hey even kids know kunlun" and everyone was like "yeah, root practice ftw". Then it was like "alien attacks from beyond!!!" "dinosaurs in the bedroom!"

 

As others have said, you can take any given situation and spin it both ways. On the pro side it could be evidence that it IS a root/universal system, that even "non initiated" people can come in contact with these "beings" and have similar experiences to those who've been to seminars (but don't tell this to anyone, or people will quit paying money to go to seminars ) On the con side you've got kids that could potentially be assaulted by trans dimensional entities with who-know's-what intentions (and most people want to protect their kids from this!)

 

As for "proof" that this happened, we just gotta take people at their word, it's the internet, and I'm not one of those people to say "vid or it didn't happen." I know full well the person could be lying, but what am I gonna do? So I operate under the assumption that they are telling the truth with the huge caveat that I know they could be lying (my life is a paradox )

 

As for organizations, down playing risks, up playing positives.... it happens. One of the reasons why a board like this is great. One of the first things I do when looking at product reviews online is I read the negative reviews. Obviously the people who gave something a 5 star rating loved it. I want to know why people gave it a 1 star. Sometimes you get tons of people give something a 1 star review because they thought it would be something else. "I got this book on anatomy but all it is is lengthy discussions about the human body." WELL DUH! Other people are like, "I couldn't comprehend the language." Maybe they aren't used to heavily academic books. Then others are like, "as a member of the medical community for 15 years and after authoring several books on the subject myself, I find this book below par, for a better introduction to anatomy see the book by......"

 

So hearing everyone say bad stuff about kunlun (and other practices and teachers) is great. It's nice to see behind the curtain, especially when people are shrouded by the curtain of anonymity called the internet and are free to say whatever they want (which gives positive reviews even more luster because they aren't being forced/paid to say it.... or are they? ) And it's great to hear negative reviews, the cons, all that other good stuff. And there have been some very good posts on the pro kunlun side. Mantra has a lot of good posts from the past (keeping in mind the PR side of it all), then recently -O- has come here with some VERY insightful posts, some of the most quality posts that I've ever seen. Winpro also gives good posts (before they are deleted....) And even Satori has given some good insights.

 

And, yes, sometimes excessive fear/paranoia CAN blow certain things out of the water. Maybe a certain amount of downplaying is needed. I mean do you really need to tell someone who's afraid of flying and who is sitting on an airplane going across an ocean all the possible ways in which the airplane can crash, burn, explode, crush, and painfully kill every single passenger on the plane while citing all the instances of it happening and providing news clippings and video footage?

 

Sometimes brutal honesty ISN'T called for. And sometimes it is

Edited July 27, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[Mantra68]

My take on all of this is that they don't want to resolve difficulties.

 

They want you to leave and be teacher free and school free.

 

You don't need them anymore Trunk and you will

never teach them anything, they aren't open

to it.

 

They will also never openly admit or

accept responsibility for

anything.

I do not take responsibility for Yoda's experience. I think he is an awesome guy and I am sorry he got freaked out by his experience while looking into the reptilian thing. It is freaky to think that those things are a part of our reality, but they are.

 

I think Trunk is a brilliant guy. I have said it many, many times here. As to anything Satori says, that is up to you to decide whether it fits or not. I am not his keeper.

 

I took responsibility for a year and a half, patiently answering questions here from some pretty nasty sources, so please spare me your spin.

 

Yes, be teacher free and school free. Be self-sufficient and empowered. You have everything inside of you.

 

Peace.

[freeform]

Sloppy Zhang. really nice post.

[TexasNative]

I think it's important to be level headed with this, stay out of the drama and actually watch what's there without engaging too much of our own 'stuff'.

 

I think he is an awesome guy and I am sorry he got freaked out by his experience while looking into the reptilian thing. It is freaky to think that those things are a part of our reality, but they are.

 

There are some of us that have been open to considering all realities, an unbiased "let's take a look and see" approach. Some of us have found ourselves there as a result of committed daily practice. It would have been mighty nice to have been level headed enough to stay out of the drama and actually watch what was there without engaging too much of our own 'stuff' but what we allowed placed us in situations so as to experience levels of fear never before encountered. A continued openness allows you to hit a threshold, once reached you may very well experience fear again but never to that same extent because you catch yourself before you get lost in it.

 

In these situation how you react may possibly come down to what kind of education you have had and what kind of repetitive savvy you may have built up, it may not come down to something that can or should be judged by others.

[freeform]

In these situation how you react may possibly come down to what kind of education you have had and what kind of repetitive savvy you may have built up, it may not come down to something that can or should be judged by others.

 

I completely agree.

 

I don't mean to judge Yoda. And I support his decisions 100%

 

In fact I have no doubt that he is doing exactly what's right for him.

 

But people need to realise this was Yoda's 'process' and that each person will have their own process. With their own lessons.

 

People have wildly different reactions to a stimulus... I saw the film Bruno this weekend - some people were disgusted and left the cinema 15 minutes into the film... some were roaring with uncontrollable laughter... some just had a steady smile... Taking any one person's reaction to the film diminishes your own ability to experience it for yourself free of another's 'spin'.

 

I realised early on and it's been stated before that you're almost guaranteed to have a 'process' - what it will be for you no one can really know for sure. This should not be approached as a hobby, like you would approach a weekend tai chi class or gardening - Kunlun involves spiritual transformation, you shouldn't approach this thinking you can just stay in your comfortable, safe cage that you've built over the years. And when it really gets going then the significance of 'transformation' really hits you.

 

For me personally, I've had almost no experience with any reptilians or anything like that. I have about as much interest in that as I do with what's on TV - I may watch it from time to time, maybe laugh, maybe cry and then get on with real life.

 

I believe that the spontaneous movement part of Kunlun comes from the African Bushman Shaman lineage - although they often have very powerful experiences of all kinds of beings and ancestors and ascended masters, after the experience it is all let go of and treated as a joke. Max reminds everyone to keep a childlike nature for a good reason.

[TexasNative]

In the end, we all pretend.

 

Great pretenders, thinking we know anything at all.

[Magitek]

In the end, we all pretend.

 

Great pretenders, thinking we know anything at all.

 

Thats the impression I get too. Nothing good has ever come from me "knowing" something.