NLP and Max (Conman) Christensen

[Patrick Brown]

[sean]

Oh boy. How about a 30 day TTB fast?

 

Sean

[passenger1980]

I love this forum, but the whole kunlun thing it's a huge turnoff for me, i'm actually thinking of leaving, as having a kunlun subforum or whatever won't be a solution in my opinion. I know we should tolerate other people beliefs and opinions, but everyday i visit all i can read is kunlun this and kunlun that, no matter what the initial topic or thread is, and it's getting ridiculous.

 

I won't touch the concept of being a scam or whatever, since it will be giving more relevance to it (i have no doubt in my mind that it is since the day i enter their website, that's all i will say and more than enough).

 

Sorry if i offended anyone.

[Jedi777]

LOL Hey everyone Pat is a master Mind --we should all listen to his great wisdom ha ha NOT!!!!

Get a life Pat you dont know shit about this

ok now get mad and attack me

making Assumptions with no first hand exp whats new here??

Edited May 29, 2008 by Jedi777

[.broken.]

Wow. Erm... You really are an opinionated individual, and not afraid to share those opinions. I think this topic'll kick up a stink with the Kunlun folk and anyone who sees this as nothing but an uninformed rant.

 

You have my empathy and compassion.

 

May happiness follow you everywhere,

 

James

[Pero]

Uhm, if the people who don't like it or think it's bogus would stop commenting on it, it would reduce the kunlun discussion by half...

And he does't even charge much, his price is pretty regular if not cheap.

[passenger1980]

The problem is that this is turning into a Kunlun forum, and it's pretty evident for me, i don't understand why it's not for others. I haven't mentioned or raised my voice on this matter until now, and my silence didn't help to stop the kunlun insanity, so i guess sharing my opinion on this won't make things worse, as i kinda feel it is all lost already, so i better speak up before it's too late.

 

Maybe there are others, who like me, are completely fed up with it and want the tao bums back.

[Jedi777]

I agree kunlun should be moved to its own area. But a post like this is just silly--pat is a shit starter who says he is enlightened

[passenger1980]

I agree kunlun should be moved to its own area. But a post like this is just silly--pat is a shit starter who says he is enlightened

 

Well i won't stand behind his methods or posts, and it's not the real problem after all. I really believe in the forum description and intention, a place to trascend all of our dogmas and try to understand each other in this journey called life, as corny as it sounds. But all i can read in the last couple of months is borderline propaganda.

[Anette L]

Hmmm.... I`m an nlp practitioner myself and found it to be a great tool to help you release traumas and emotional blockages. It gives you some important tools, that of course can seem intimidating, but I still think most people can not and will not become a new "derren brown". I don`t know if the thread starter`s reason for posting this was to speak out against nlp or max?

I would recommend nlp to anyone, any day, but I do NOT like the money-part of it. If you want to know more about nlp then read the books, I don`t believe anybody who charges up to $5000 for a seminar to do it for the right reasons. I do, on the other hand, think it is ok to charge enough to cover your plane ticket and stay and thought the money for the kunlun seminar was well spent. That`s my take on it.

 

Manipulating people shouldn`t have access to nlp, but that is simply not the way it works. There are always people who will use precious information just to benefit themselves. One has to use a little brains and whole lot of heart to distinguish real from fake. What exactly are you basing your strict verdict of Max on Patrick?

[EagerMind]

I've haven't been on here a long time but have seen a lot of kunlun posts! They don't really bother me, if you see something concerning kunlun and don't want to read about it you can always pass it by. If it's a scam or not, I have no idea, it does seem a little fishy but I'm a see it to believe kind of guy. I do think the way Pat went about this wasn't very productive or kind, it would of probably been much better to just find another forum.

 

Jim

[freeform]

passenger1980,

 

I've been following this forum for years, and I'm sure the other long-term members will agree that we tend to go through 'trends'. We've had raw food/nutrition trends, we've had CCO trends, we've had David Shen trends, aneros trends, grounding, Buddhism, magick, martial arts, retention, emptiness etc... Each of these trends enjoyed a 'season' of discussions... some longer than others...

 

A forum is based on a community with shared interests and no single goal... you have the freedom to anything you like - nothing is expected of you apart from some decency and respect... The forum is not here to serve your interests, or the interests of any one person.

 

I agree that there is a little too much Kunlun - centred conversation - most of it is caused by the strong emotions involved - for some people it's threatening and for others it's inviting - it's a controversy, that's why it sparks debate. For some this kind of atmosphere is highly energising (Patrick is an obvious example here) for others it's draining.

 

All I can suggest is chill out - everything rises and falls, there will be something new next 'season'. You might not notice but there is plenty of topics floating around, and rather than commenting in those, you end up commenting on yet another kunlun topic, perpetuating what you disagree with.

 

Get a new topic going - spark up people's curiosity and you'll be rewarded with a fruitful discussion...

[passenger1980]

passenger1980,

 

I've been following this forum for years, and I'm sure the other long-term members will agree that we tend to go through 'trends'. We've had raw food/nutrition trends, we've had CCO trends, we've had David Shen trends, aneros trends, grounding, Buddhism, magick, martial arts, retention, emptiness etc... Each of these trends enjoyed a 'season' of discussions... some longer than others...

 

A forum is based on a community with shared interests and no single goal... you have the freedom to anything you like - nothing is expected of you apart from some decency and respect... The forum is not here to serve your interests, or the interests of any one person.

 

I agree that there is a little too much Kunlun - centred conversation - most of it is caused by the strong emotions involved - for some people it's threatening and for others it's inviting - it's a controversy, that's why it sparks debate. For some this kind of atmosphere is highly energising (Patrick is an obvious example here) for others it's draining.

 

All I can suggest is chill out - everything rises and falls, there will be something new next 'season'. You might not notice but there is plenty of topics floating around, and rather than commenting in those, you end up commenting on yet another kunlun topic, perpetuating what you disagree with.

 

Get a new topic going - spark up people's curiosity and you'll be rewarded with a fruitful discussion...

 

I can say that i understand what you mean, and it's a great advise, seriously. In my defense, i didn't know about this trend stuff in the forum, however, the only thing i can say about it, is that the stuff you mention is much larger and i hate to say, "important" than this kunlun nonsense.

 

To me it is so distracting and annoying because it's quoted as being something larger than life or something that really deserves the attention it gets, compared to all of the stuff you mentioned (buddhism, retention, emptiness, etc). I, myself question kunlun as nothing more than a scam. Call me an ignorant if you want (which i am after all, as i didn't read the book nor i think i will, i don't believe i should pay for knowledge, at least of this type).

 

Thanks again for your words and suggestions.

[gendao]

I love this forum, but the whole kunlun thing it's a huge turnoff for me, i'm actually thinking of leaving, as having a kunlun subforum or whatever won't be a solution in my opinion.

I actually think a subforum would help - because then the threads would be compartmentalized and easily avoided, if wanted.

 

Also, the same questions and issues keep getting rehashed over and over. But, if all the threads were compiled in the same place, people would find a lot of their answers to the same old questions in the old threads..

 

Anyways, I would actually like a Derren Brown thread to discuss his methods and how to do them..

[thelerner]

Jeez, now there's multiple kunlun threads on why there are too many kunlun threads. I do some K. but a good board needs balance. As Freeform says it tends to happen automatically, though it takes time. Sometimes just creating an interesting topic and keeping it alive is the best way to counter too much of one thing.

 

There are enough kunlun threads around here that most discussion can probably be made using them instead of creating separate topics. For the most people do, that why you see some with such high hits.

 

And there's always the classic advice, just don't hit the link.

 

The official Kunlun forum board (kunlunforum.com) is up and running so much of the discussion here will probably migrate.

 

Now for the mind control part- Kunlun is simple and easy, there are reasons people are attracted to it.

 

Michael

[sean]

What freeform and thelerner said.

 

I've really striven to avoid complicating this forum with lots of subforums. It's basically Taoist Discussion, Personal Journals and Off Topic, if you look at it. Even that is a little weird because what is Off Topic of Tao? Or even weirder, what is really on topic? Anyway, I think people get the basic idea. Creating a separate Kunlun subforum opens up a whole can of worms, first by creating the potential for separate subforums for the other thousand strange practices we've discussed here over the years. And second it stifles the non-linear aspect of the discussions here. For example, a topic might start out having nothing to do with Kunlun, then wanders into a Kunlun discussion for several posts, then comes back to the main idea. So there'd still be the dilemma of what percentage of Kunlun-specific posts does a topic need before it's moved?

 

Just give it time. Like freeform says we all tend to go through passionate phases here. Eventually the dust settles. People get more grounded about the experiences they are having with the practices and teachers they're exploring and decide it's more interesting to passionately talk about organic deodorant for 24 pages.

 

Sean

[Yoda]

I've been following this forum for years, and I'm sure the other long-term members will agree that we tend to go through 'trends'. We've had raw food/nutrition trends, we've had CCO trends, we've had David Shen trends, aneros trends, grounding, Buddhism, magick, martial arts, retention, emptiness etc... Each of these trends enjoyed a 'season' of discussions... some longer than others...

 

I forgot about the aneros thing... I *really* hope that I threw mine away and it doesn't get dredged up in front of my someday teenage kids... like the scene out of Deliverance where the hand rises slowly from the river...

 

I'll claim innocence... it never worked for me anyways and gave me hemorrhoids for my troubles. (I did get on customer service for that, of course. Hopefully, it wasn't a taped session for training purposes!! )

 

I wish I could have made a trend out of poo ropes... you all missed out on that one.

 

Your loss, that's all I'll say.

 

 

~~~

 

Re: Kunlun, our fearless webmaster is always right. And if not, tough shit. The Tao aint no fucking democracy, okay???

 

 

(just a bit of humor there... not representative of any strong opinions on my part.)

[regardie_2000]

Hi!

 

meanwhile, if there's too much of the same thing it could focus attention too much on it. I mean perhaps some topics aren't seen due of too much K...

 

that's only a question....

 

excuse my poor english, it's not my mother tongue.

 

reg

[freeform]

Call me an ignorant if you want (which i am after all, as i didn't read the book nor i think i will, i don't believe i should pay for knowledge, at least of this type).

 

I'm glad you call yourself ignorant. It's fine for you to think it's nonsense, so there is no point in you ever clicking on a post that has the words Kunlun or Max on. It makes life nice and easy for you... I don't click on David Shen threads, and I certainly don't judge his validity and complain about the posts that I don't read...

 

Last week I went into a bookshop and walked straight past the early learning section. Imagine if I didn't ignore it, imagine I went into the section, leafed through some books and then started to complain to the other customers what complete rubbish it all was... also complained to the manager of the store, saying that I used to like the bookshop, but now I'm considering not visiting it because of all this early learning bull crap.

[passenger1980]

I'm glad you call yourself ignorant. It's fine for you to think it's nonsense, so there is no point in you ever clicking on a post that has the words Kunlun or Max on. It makes life nice and easy for you... I don't click on David Shen threads, and I certainly don't judge his validity and complain about the posts that I don't read...

 

Last week I went into a bookshop and walked straight past the early learning section. Imagine if I didn't ignore it, imagine I went into the section, leafed through some books and then started to complain to the other customers what complete rubbish it all was... also complained to the manager of the store, saying that I used to like the bookshop, but now I'm considering not visiting it because of all this early learning bull crap.

 

That comparison is pretty stupid if you ask me.

 

A more accurate would be if the bookshop i frequently visited and used to provide me books that interest me is now full of "How to become millonaire in a nanosecond" and because of this i can't hardly find good books anymore (what i think are good books of course). So, as a regular client, i would go ask someone in charge what the hell is wrong with this.

 

Also, this is an exception, where i'm speaking up against kunlun, i never clicked in kunlun topics, but a lot of topics are full of kunlun stuff and discussion even if the topic is "What's the meaning of life". It seems that 80% of the members are into this. That's my main problem actually. That's where i found out what was all this kunlun stuff was too. Almost any topic here has a kunlun reference. Pathetic.

 

I'm seriously thinking about leaving now, not that it will matter much to the forum owners or posters here, but it matters to me, i always thought this forum was awesome and full of insights, it really provided me with lots of cool information and experiences. So it will be very sad for me to go...

[Sahaj Nath]

it's been at least 9 months now that kunlun has dominated the forum. how long did the previous 'trends' last?

 

i understand sean's position, but i think it's a little abstract and hypothetical, and ignores the blatant reality of what's happening.

 

 

the book store analogy was a very bad one. we could only walk past the 'section' if kunlun were actually IN a particular section. that's the point!

 

 

 

before i left the forum for 6 months i was a harsh critic of kunlun. i did the workshop, and i won't do it again. it took time for me to appreciate what max DOES offer beneath all the claims and propaganda.

 

 

i'm genuinely happy that so many people are getting so much out of it. the topic would have died off ages ago if there wasn't 'something' there.

 

but lots of good topics are getting lost amid the chatter about kunlun. (i hate calling it kunlun, btw. i practice a kunlun art that has NOTHING to do with what max teaches.) and i'm willing to bet a lot of people with valuable things to contribute to this community will leave or remain silent if 'something' isn't done.

 

 

it's been at least 9 months now. how much more time should we give it?

 

 

everyone wants to connect with new and special people the way that the kunlun people connect with each other on this forum. but it seems that the kunlun-er connections are propagating at the expense of the rest of us. i met a teacher who really changed my life on a forum not unlike this one. how many people are missing that opportunity right now?

[Aetherous]

[Heidi1975]

You make us feel unwelcome

 

I've been into other foras and I know how you feel, all the newbs flooding and spamming with silly Qs repeatedly....and when I feel like that I thank myself for the reminder that I've also been a novice.

 

I can't see why there should be any competition between the members and the practise they favor. In fact I don't understand this "hostility." If you're not interested in a topic, don't bother looking into them and make new topics on the subjects you like instead of those you dislike. Is freedom of choice such a difficult matter?

[Sahaj Nath]

You make us feel unwelcome

 

I've been into other foras and I know how you feel, all the newbs flooding and spamming with silly Qs repeatedly....and when I feel like that I thank myself for the reminder that I've also been a novice.

 

I can't see why there should be any competition between the members and the practise they favor. In fact I don't understand this "hostility." If you're not interested in a topic, don't bother looking into them and make new topics on the subjects you like instead of those you dislike. Is freedom of choice such a difficult matter?

 

 

i assume you're referring to me.

 

 

i'm not at all hostile. look at some of my posts from 7 months ago. THAT was hostile!

 

i'm making a valid point. it's not an attack on any of you who are getting a lot out of your practice.

 

but freedom of choice is hindered when so many other threads get pushed into oblivion because of all the kunlun discussion.

 

i guess i just don't see why a subforum can't be made since mantra's site is apparently not working for everybody.

[Wayfarer64]

I felt as if I was a newbie for a very short time when I first was introduced to TTB by a friend...It was a welcoming and refreshing spot of brightness in the cyber world.

It still is.

 

Once again I tender much thanks to Sean for providing this small wonder!

 

But it has gotten quite crowded. The abundance -or over-abundance of kunlun ala Max threads has been of some small interest to me. But I find it pretty easy to ignore as well... Further, it would seem that he has something to offer for quite a few who spend their time and energy here. The thrill of it seems a bit contagious... as humor or illness I will not judge it, to each their own...

 

That being said, I have been put off by some of the salesmanship I encountered here, because it reminded me of the Guru Maharaji's and other systems I was drawn into over the past 40+ years...There are too many to recount now...It repulsed me, and still does.

 

Striving is not seeking. Inner quitude can not be bought, it can be aided in its developement by folks wiser than I... So teachers are often looked for if not always found... karma maybe or perhaps we are just a bit lazy and want the quick fix, or the path of least resistance, which is often the best way, but not always...

 

Sooo, the best advice I can relate to right now, is from Bob Dylan, " don't follow leaders watch yr parking meters..."

 

As in -Keeping one's feet on the ground is a fine start. Meditation is basic and needs no system to approach.

 

Is becoming other than a good example of humankind any more than we need ask to be?