Sir Darius the Clairvoyent Posted October 10 Before someone strawmans me, I do live in accordence to some societal as well as personal values, which might be called living morally. However, there is nothing objective about these: you cant derive an ought from an is. So why moralize? Is morality a tool used for control? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted October 10 "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", is straight forward and is related to karma, so what kind of karma would we want to come back on us! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lukks Posted October 10 13 minutes ago, old3bob said: karma this 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Darius the Clairvoyent Posted October 10 28 minutes ago, old3bob said: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", is straight forward and is related to karma, so what kind of karma would we want to come back on us! Sure, I am not talking about running around killing everyone and everything. I do not think that would happen even If we admitted good and evil is entirely a construct. I just have a problem with moralizing, and wonder if it is a tool of control. A way to pressure others to behave the way youd like them to behave and is good for you, but maybe not themself. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stirling Posted October 10 In Buddhism, the precepts would be the primary morality teaching. Their point is to help the student avoid creating more unnecessary karma for themselves. If your intention is to relieve suffering, or become enlightened, dramatically reducing or stopping the creation of karma is a foregone conclusion. If that isn't of any concern to you, ask yourself why you still feel guilty about the choices you make and and actions you take. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 10 2 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: Sure, I am not talking about running around killing everyone and everything. I do not think that would happen even If we admitted good and evil is entirely a construct. I just have a problem with moralizing, and wonder if it is a tool of control. A way to pressure others to behave the way youd like them to behave and is good for you, but maybe not themself. Thats what 'treat others as yourself is about ' - I consider it fraught with negative possibilities : lets say I am a born again Christian ... what is the most important thing to me now ? Going to heaven ! Its great news, I have been saved ! I am glad I am not like I was before .... non- born again ... because I was not going to get eternal life . Now if i treat you how I would like to be treated I will try to convert you to save you ... at any cost ( we are talking about your future spiritual eternal existence here ! ) Mate , I would get you in a headlock and FORCE you underwater ! Unfortunately I might even have to torture or kill you to GET YOU to confess your bad past .... but its for your own good ! How about instead , I treat you how YOU want to be treated ? Morals and ethics are dependent on where and when we live ... they are part of our social contacts and vary from place to place ... so aside from that and ultimately ; "ESSENTIALS OF METHOD I. Theology is immaterial; for both Buddha and St. Ignatius were Christs. II. Morality is immaterial; for both Socrates and Mohammed were Christs. III. Super-consciousness is a natural phenomenon; its conditions are therefore to be sought rather in the acts than the words of those who attain it. The essential acts are retirement and concentration — as taught by Yoga and Ceremonial Magic. " https://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox/i/ii/eqi02016#google_vignette 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idquest Posted October 11 8 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: Before someone strawmans me, I do live in accordence to some societal as well as personal values, which might be called living morally. However, there is nothing objective about these: you cant derive an ought from an is. So why moralize? Is morality a tool used for control? We need ethics to get our spirit stronger. Some people can make their spirit stronger without being moral and ethical, but vast majority cannot. The catch is that this understanding comes later in life, when one starts developing some degree of wisdom. When this happens, it is often difficult to rectify earlier mistakes. So it is better to trust that being ethical is good, because it could be too late later on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Darius the Clairvoyent Posted October 11 15 hours ago, Nungali said: "ESSENTIALS OF METHOD I. Theology is immaterial; for both Buddha and St. Ignatius were Christs. II. Morality is immaterial; for both Socrates and Mohammed were Christs. III. Super-consciousness is a natural phenomenon; its conditions are therefore to be sought rather in the acts than the words of those who attain it. The essential acts are retirement and concentration — as taught by Yoga and Ceremonial Magic. " That paragraph has baffled me for a while. Finally it clicked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrice Daily Posted October 11 (edited) 19 hours ago, stirling said: In Buddhism, the precepts would be the primary morality teaching. Their point is to help the student avoid creating more unnecessary karma for themselves. Totally agree, and depending on the precept being broken, it may determine the extent of the downfall. I remember reading ‘don’t sell intoxicants’ as being one recommendation in Tibetan Buddhism. So I won’t provide drugs or alcohol to others. This seems sensible. And In doing to others as you want done. Trying to avoid gossip and backbiting is best and arguing face to face too… it can help correct so many problems that we are conditioned with, having a better conduct. So if Morality covers, good manners, being calm and kind and not leading others into chaotic circumstances that may badly hurt them, or others. Yeah I think morality is important. Also if you got kids and you don’t want the spitting, swearing and smoking at ten it’s probably best to be more of a square. like attracts like birds of a feather flock together and… monkey see monkey do Edited October 11 by Thrice Daily Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master Logray Posted October 11 22 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: Before someone strawmans me, I do live in accordence to some societal as well as personal values, which might be called living morally. However, there is nothing objective about these: you cant derive an ought from an is. So why moralize? Is morality a tool used for control? From a cultivator's perspective, sticking to morality is essential. Because when a cultivator is doing some deep stuff which is comparable to defusing a bomb, you don't want to be disturbed by whatever thinking or guilt or greed or lust that may crop up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrice Daily Posted October 11 2 hours ago, Master Logray said: comparable to defusing a bomb, Oh I love that … Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
