Spontaneous Qigong - Jing and Qi Depletion

[Lukks]

Hello everyone!

 

Yanq qi movement creating strong zi fa gong(spontaneous movements) reactions does depletes/consumes your jing and qi?

 

I've read it somewhere here but I forgot the name of the post to find it again, so maybe someone can help me, this information just keep in the back of my head and I don't even know if it's true 

Edited October 11 by Lukks

[ChiDragon]

14 hours ago, Lukks said:

Yanq qi movement creating strong zi fa gong(spontaneous movements) reactions does depletes/consumes your jing and qi?

Question: If Zi Fa Gong, 自發功, cause harm to one's body, then, why do you still want to wasting your time to investigate it? The movements are not any different than other slow moving martial arts. Your body works the same with any kind of practice that gives the same effect. Why should it be treated differently? I wouldn't believe what others had said. It is because everyone tells a different story only by the word of mouth. There isn't a uniform code for martial arts. The masters only tell it as they pleased with no justification. There is always a wise guy come up with some wild stories to spread around. 

Peace on earth!

Edited October 11 by ChiDragon

[Sahaja]

3 hours ago, Lukks said:

Hello everyone!

 

Yanq qi movement creating strong zi fa gong(spontaneous movements) reactions does depletes/consumes your jing and qi?

 

I've read it somewhere here but I forgot the name of the post to find it again, so maybe someone can help me, this information just keep in the back of my head and I don't even know if it's true 

Short answer is no. As long as you just let it do its thing, don’t attach to it and don’t participate in it (as in don’t add into the movements with your own conscious movements)Just treat it as an amusing irrelevance like farting or burping. Allow it to leave/stop when it’s done it’s work. Don’t hold onto it. It will likely eventually change to something else. It’s part of a cycle of change. Also remember it’s your qi so if you tell it to stop, it will.

 

I think as you read about it you will find three views

 

1. It’s bad. Don’t do it. It’s unhealthy. I 

2. It’s good, it’s the practice , it reveals deep secrets and esoteric energies. (Some teachers will try to hook you into this)

3. It’s a natural part of the energetic change process. Don’t seek it and don’t avoid it. 
 

I think number 3 is the correct response.  For me it’s actually been quite a helpful process. 
 

one caveat would be if you are under a doctors care being treated for schizophrenia or other very serious mental disorder, suggest you refrain from any internal meditative or energetic practice. Do external exercise with physical body only if this is the case.

[Master Logray]

16 hours ago, Lukks said:

Hello everyone!

 

Yanq qi movement creating strong zi fa gong(spontaneous movements) reactions does depletes/consumes your jing and qi?

 

I've read it somewhere here but I forgot the name of the post to find it again, so maybe someone can help me, this information just keep in the back of my head and I don't even know if it's true 

 

There are 2 different things.  Chi, higher level or movement, creates reactions on the body.  Zi Fa Gong is a system to specially induce similar or heavier reactions from the body.

 

In fact doing everything consumes jing and Chi, Qigong is no difference.  But Qigong has conservancy functions and clearing blockage function which indirectly increase jing and Chi.   So if you are already weak, avoid those Qigong which are too hectic, or taking up too much time.  Then your income is higher than expenditure. 

 

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

In fact doing everything consumes jing and Chi, Qigong is no difference.  But Qigong has conservancy functions and clearing blockage function which indirectly increase jing and Chi.   So if you are already weak, avoid those Qigong which are too hectic, or taking up too much time.  Then your income is higher than expenditure. 

 

yes, that's put nicely

 

 

Edited October 11 by blue eyed snake

[thelerner]

Seems like everything I like is immoral, illegal, fattening or bad for my chi.

 

Long time ago I went to a Kunlun weekend done by Max Christensen.  It encompasses a couple of practices but mostly a still form that leads to spontaneous chi gong. I don't practice it much but I'm glad I have it in my tool box.  When up late at night, hitting the position which after a few minutes triggers at times spastic motions that later calm is good.  

 

I agree with Sahara's comment above, and his caveat.  

Edited October 11 by thelerner

[Lukks]

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

So if you are already weak, avoid those Qigong which are too hectic, or taking up too much time.  Then your income is higher than expenditure. 

 

This is actually good advice, so the time one spends in qigong also affects such things, please correct me if my understanding is wrong, but I think we can put it this way:

 

*I will use the term ENERGY for Jing and Qi*

 

- If one does Qigong for 1 hour he will be clearing more energy blockages, but he will also be consuming more energy.

- If one does Qigong for 15 minutes, he will be clearing less energy blockages, but he will be conserving more energy.

 

So, hypothetically,  if two people with the same levels of energy do the practices above, one for 1 hour and the other for 15 minutes, at the end of the session, the guy who did 1 hour of Qigong will have less "energy" than the guy who did 15 minutes?

 

If this is correct this brings a new understanding of Qigong to me, I tought it was the only thing that was always building energy and not consuming it.

 

 

Edited October 11 by Lukks

[Master Logray]

20 hours ago, Lukks said:

This is actually good advice, so the time one spends in qigong also affects such things, please correct me if my understanding is wrong, but I think we can put it this way:

 

*I will use the term ENERGY for Jing and Qi*

 

- If one does Qigong for 1 hour he will be clearing more energy blockages, but he will also be consuming more energy.

- If one does Qigong for 15 minutes, he will be clearing less energy blockages, but he will be conserving more energy.

 

So, hypothetically,  if two people with the same levels of energy do the practices above, one for 1 hour and the other for 15 minutes, at the end of the session, the guy who did 1 hour of Qigong will have less "energy" than the guy who did 15 minutes?

 

If this is correct this brings a new understanding of Qigong to me, I tought it was the only thing that was always building energy and not consuming it.

 

 

 

That is the idea - for expenditure.  But "will have less energy" is about the total energy level, which is also about existing energy in the body and increase in production too.   Qigong is unlike charging electricity which is instant.   The increase in production takes much longer time and last longer beyond the actual training period.   For an old and sick person, doing high intensity and long duration Qigong is actually harmful just like doing excess exercises, in spite of future benefits.  I would suggest asking the teacher if some of the movements can be omitted in such situation. 

 

 

[Sahaja]

It’s my understanding and experience that qi is pretty robust. It seems to be there regardless of the physical conditions, even when logically it seems it shouldn’t be.   However, the one thing it doesn’t take too well  is overthinking and control with intention. You can welcome it but if you try to control it, particularly with left brain linear analytical thought to “figure it all out”, it will be hard to find indeed. Wu wei, Ziran and Xun were originally not just high sounding philosophical concepts from the early Daoists. They were practical guides to cultivation as well (along with Song and Ting)

 

from a practical standpoint, unless your teacher says specifically not to do something, just keep practicing and don’t think about it too much. Use your common sense and your physical reaction to guide your practice. Pay attention to how different practices affect you and adjust accordingly.   Eat well, sleep early (by 10pm) and balance time spent in internal practice (energy/meditative) with external physical exercise.  Even if you make an error, it may result in a learning that provides benefits to you and others in the long run.  You also likely  have the magic of youth (under age 60) in your favor that enables quick recovery. 
 

On 10/10/2024 at 5:07 PM, Lukks said:

Hello everyone!

 

Yanq qi movement creating strong zi fa gong(spontaneous movements) reactions does depletes/consumes your jing and qi?

 

I've read it somewhere here but I forgot the name of the post to find it again, so maybe someone can help me, this information just keep in the back of my head and I don't even know if it's true 

 

[Thrice Daily]

Do you find sometimes after a qigong session a short nap

is required? 
 

I find this happens at first if I start back with a practice after a break. Like the system is rebooting and organising the energy from the actual practice session.

 

Sometimes I reduce the qi connection to my practice and stay more ‘in the room’ preferring a body awareness and the weight of the limbs and simple movements, rather than settling on the sensation of warm emanating energies. 

[Lukks]

15 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Do you find sometimes after a qigong session a short nap

is required? 
 

I find this happens at first if I start back with a practice after a break. Like the system is rebooting and organising the energy from the actual practice session.

 

Sometimes I reduce the qi connection to my practice and stay more ‘in the room’ preferring a body awareness and the weight of the limbs and simple movements, rather than settling on the sensation of warm emanating energies. 

 

This happens to me aswell, but I don't know exactly why, this is one of the reasons I asked this question, I'm trying to find the sweet spot where I practice enought to benefit but don't use too much of my Qi to the point of being tired  

[Thrice Daily]

Hi @Lukks I think some of it depends what you use it for and what the practice time consists of, at the moment mine is split 1/ tendon changing 2/ martial arts drills 3/ Taichi 4/meditation and sipping a big cup of green tea - then shower.
Example; For winter I’ve decided to work on mobility and as such I’m doing a tendon changing set every day. This takes around 20-30 minutes at the moment as I’m building up the repetitions by 2 each exercise every week. I started on 12 exercises 12 reps and now I’m doing 12 x 16 reps (in line with my tendons and ligaments getting used to the sets again) 

My teacher recommended doing the tendon changing each day for at least three months … 

I know from previous experience this will just make me stronger every day and is an excellent warmup for martial arts… the concentration also gradually builds as I’m increasing the reps. 
 

When I’m finished I really leave the martial drills part to intuition. I always get a strong kick from within to tell me what to do I stand and wait in silence, then typically I’ll put some drums music on the speakers and pick up a stick, maybe two, maybe empty hand, I always check, wu wei knows best, it’s such a big part of training especially as I gain in years. Typically I never follow a big day by another big day, so if I was really going for it yesterday I may just do a bit of light martial arts flow on that day, or I hit myself all over with a bunch of thin sticks all bound together instead.  

 

Next is Tai-Chi again I just follow what my body and mind want, in terms of intensity and quality it is always pretty different, sometimes more martial, sometimes more restorative. There are many attitudes that could flicker in and out of this, then the meditation. Sometimes longer sometimes shorter. Always depends… practices always consistent and same. Duration and intensity often fluctuates. Apart from tendon changing as it is purposeful to aim for incremental gain each week as there is a clear goal in mind. Hope that is some practical food for thought 🙏  

[ChiDragon]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:29 PM, Lukks said:

If this is correct this brings a new understanding of Qigong to me, I tought it was the only thing that was always building energy and not consuming it.

Yes, Qigong is always do some good to the body. Unless, it was done improperly. I cannot emphasize enough that without doing proper breathing is not Qigong at all. By just doing some movements without the coordination with breathing, it cannot be considered as Qigong. Qigong is mainly to practice breathing by sitting still on moving in slow motion. How can you tell that your Qigong teacher is good or not? The first thing I would ask is breathing important in Qigong? It the teacher says no, then, I will go else where to look for another teacher.
 

There is one problem with Zi Fa Gong. In Taiwan,  Zi Fa Gong is very popular at one time. The problem with it is some people cannot stop after they had begin the practice. Some were acting like they were insane and need to go the mental hospital. The people in Taiwan had asked a Qigong master in Hong Kong for help to resolve the mental issue. 

Edited Monday at 10:23 PM by ChiDragon

[Lukks]

54 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, Qigong is always do some good to the body. Unless, it was done improperly. I cannot emphasize enough that without doing proper breathing is not Qigong at all. By just doing some movements without the coordination with breathing, it cannot be considered as Qigong. Qigong is mainly to practice breathing by sitting still on moving in slow motion. How can you tell that your Qigong teacher is good or not? The first thing I would ask is breathing important in Qigong? It the teacher says no, then, I will go else where to look for another teacher.
 

There is one problem with Zi Fa Gong. In Taiwan,  Zi Fa Gong is very proper at one time. The problem with it is some people cannot stop after they had begin the practice. Some were acting like they were insane and need to go the mental hospital. The people in Taiwan had asked a Qigong master in Hong Kong for help to resolve the mental issue. 

 

I'm having zi fa gong for some time but it always stop after the practice. It's actually diminishing with time, it was a lot stronger 2 months ago

[Cobie]

@ChiDragon the picture in your signature, all I see is 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

15 minutes ago, Lukks said:

 

I'm having zi fa gong for some time but it always stop after the practice. It's actually diminishing with time, it was a lot stronger 2 months ago

 In Taiwan,  Zi Fa Gong is very popular at one time. The problem with some people has a weak mental issue that cannot stop after they had begin the practice. Some people may not have any problem with it. I had seen a friend practiced Zi Fa Gong in front of me. She seems like a walking zombie, in the living room, with her eyes closed. 

Edited Monday at 10:34 PM by ChiDragon

[Lukks]

Just now, ChiDragon said:

 In Taiwan,  Zi Fa Gong is very popular at one time. The problem with some people has a weak mental issue that cannot stop after they had begin the practice. Some people may not have any problem with it. I had seen a friended Zi Fa Gong in front of me. She seems like a walking zombie, in the living room, with her eyes closed. 

 

I have no one to Zi Fa Gong in front of me, but I Zi Fa Gong in front of my sister, in the beggining she thought I was going crazy, then I explained to her what was happening, and then she was sure I was crazy

[Cobie]

 

 

9 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 …. She seems like a walking zombie, in the living room, with her eyes closed. 

I do like that a lot. But in my case that’s because I have no interest in (most) other people. 
 

 

[ChiDragon]

31 minutes ago, Cobie said:

@ChiDragon the picture in your signature, all I see is 

 

 

 

I just checked, it seems ok!

[Cobie]

@ChiDragon it still doesn’t show here. What does it show on the picture?

 

 

[ChiDragon]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

@ChiDragon it still doesn’t show here. What does it show on the picture?

 

 

IDK It might be your browser was doing it!

[Cobie]

@ChiDragon Yes, or could be because I’m not in the USA. Anyway, as I don’t have the picture, could you tell me what your picture is about? What is the message of the picture?

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:03 PM by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

7 minutes ago, Cobie said:

@ChiDragon Yes, or could be because I’m not in the USA. Anyway, as I don’t have the picture, could you tell me what your picture is about? What is the message of the picture?

 

 

靜觀其變 以靜制動

Beware of the unexpected silently

Handle adversity with calmness

 

[Cobie]

That’s a good message. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:49 PM by Cobie

[Lukks]

@ChiDragon The picture is not showing for me too