Developing Right Student Mindset

[Ascetic]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

 

 

wow. 

just wow.

Im unsure if you're disagreeing or not, but idk the reason I said that is because lifespan is very dreadful. I would imagine it would take hundreds of years for a human to become a Mage, maybe a full lifetime to make progress with cultivation in a world that is mundane.

Time is just something I at least battle everywhere, efficiency is so important on this world.

[forestofclarity]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:01 PM, 心神 ~ said:

I'm just a bit overwhelmed and trying to determine the next step.

 

But what happened to: 

 

Quote

In that event, I'm leaning toward Lotus Nei Gong International with Damo Mitchell / Roni Edlund. I found the book they wrote to be incredibly helpful, and the school offers a program that supports women's specific practice in addition to the standard program.

 

Why not check it out and see what happens? To my knowledge, no one has produced any evidence that Damo is not teaching Daoist practices he learned from a living teacher in an authentic tradition. In fact, one long term Bum (freefrom) has stated that what Damo teaches, is consistent with what he is also learning from a different living teacher in an authentic tradition. I don't think we really know how the path is going to unfold. 

 

As the sports people say, you always miss 100% of the shots you don't take. 

 

[Thrice Daily]

I’ve watched some of his stuff, he seems like the real deal. His Bagua certainly looks to be that way too.

 

Looks like he is a big fan of safety features in his practice as well, and his students. Looks like a good egg 👍 

[心神 ~]

 

@forestofclarity & @Thrice Daily

Thank you for the encouragement! 

 

I'm still in the stage of receiving information, I suppose. When I asked about Damo Mitchell, it was because I'd read a book by him that I enjoyed and I wanted to source opinions. I hadn't researched him in-depth, his was simply the name at top of mind. 

 

Saying "I'm leaning towards" conveyed a level of conviction I didn't intend, and I could have worded that better. "I'm curious about," is more accurate. But I haven't lost interest, per se, I just want to continue to do my due diligence.

 

I do appreciate your perspective! It's just that with limited financial resources, I can't afford to dive in and see what happens. I need to know that I'm making a wise investment, so I don't mind taking my time to assess and decide. 

 

My question about how to develop studious discipline and respectful teacher-student rapport wasn't limited to only Qi Gong / Nei Gong, either. There are a variety of adjacent subjects I'd like to learn. But as was pointed out, I could have been clearer about that as well.

 

The overwhelm I mentioned was more existential than anything, a rumination on fate and karma and will, wanting to be worthy of my chosen path, and wanting to make the most out of what I can focus on and influence.

 

Honestly a good indication that I should relax! So I'm focusing on strengthening my daily habits and participating in the community here, and for now I find that's going well.

 

Edited October 15 by 心神 ~

[S:C]

On 12.10.2024 at 2:55 AM, dwai said:

Quote

one should learn to think in full sentences. a student of what? a teacher of what? if it really does not matter of what exactly, then  discipline will be   like digging when in a hole.

 

Moderator  Comment: What is with this aggressive behavior? If you don’t understand the question, and genuinely want to know, you can articulate your question without the condescension. Let me be very clear with you @Taoist Texts - 

if I see even a hint of condescension/bullying from you again, it will result in a permanent ban. 

 

If I learned anything from those I consider a teacher and/or a friend, it is that asking the right questions is imperative (for survival, success or sanity along the way - take your pick!). 
 

Reading TT’s comment did help remind me of a few lessons that always serve to be learned again and again. 

The receiving part might hear his words from the ear of condescension or bullying or aggression, (honi soit qui mal y pense!) - his/her loss - but it seems to be open to a broader spectrum of interpretation and one where TT’ throws Ariadne (modern female cultivators and princesses have to help themselves… (!) no white knight Theseus comes with a sword to kill their dragon… anyways in a weird way they would be the same person anyways) a red thread in the labyrinth of the dragon to find her way out there hopefully.
 

All we can do here in TDB as friends along the way is to throw some trails of breadcrumbs out of the woods of the witch or pointers at the moon (good lord what a mix of metaphors.) If we forbid helpers to speak up it’s getting dim for our chance of success.
 

https://www.buboquote.com/en/quote/32-carroll-if-you-don-t-know-where-you-are-going-any-road-can-take-you-there

 

Applying discipline or cultivation to a lost cause or wrong end is a waste of time and energy that could (or should) be avoided (if it doesn’t coincide with one’s personal goal or nature). It’s always wiser to observe and orient with several options and consequences before deciding for a course of action. 

 

Sometimes a more direct approach can be necessary, I don’t see an insult or offense here: not everybody can teach with silence alone. 
 

Aren’t we all getting a little miffy with the so called modern emotional based rules of rational discourse? Cultivation is no cuddling. 
It must have been more fun to talk in the past.

Edited Tuesday at 03:50 PM by S:C

[Thrice Daily]

11 minutes ago, S:C said:

If I learned anything from those I consider a teacher and/or a friend, it is that asking the right questions is imperative. Reading TT’s comment did help remind me of a few lessons that always serve to be learned again and again. 

The receiving part might hear his words from the ear of condescension or bullying or aggression, (on y soit qui mal y pense!) but it seems to be open to a broader spectrum of interpretation and one where TT’ throws Ariadne a red thread in the labyrinth of the dragon to find her way out there hopefully. 
 

https://www.buboquote.com/en/quote/32-carroll-if-you-don-t-know-where-you-are-going-any-road-can-take-you-there

 

Applying discipline or cultivation to a lost cause or wrong end is a waste of time and energy that could (or should) be avoided if it doesn’t coincide with one’s personal goal or nature). It’s always wiser to observe and orient with several options and consequences before deciding for a course of action. 

 

Sometimes a more direct approach can be necessary, I don’t see an insult or offense here: not everybody can teach with silence alone. 
 

Aren’t we all getting a little miffy with the so called modern emotional based rules of rational discourse? Cultivation is no cuddling. 
It must have been more fun to talk in the past.

Isn’t it funny…

 

I can’t think of a single martial arts film for example,That attempts to show the traditional and Mystical teacher old Chinese teacher,,

 

as someone that is nice to the student. They are most times extremely harsh, cutting with their words and quite crazy [memorable/effective]

 

think about it, it just doesn’t happen. In hardcore training, the most brutal teachers and teaching style is often the most effective. Leaving little room for error or time wasting… 

 

Work harder, you not good enough, try harder, what you doing is stupid waste of time, do it proper, ready go etc.

 

I know what you mean. 

[Nungali]

" Film "   .....   ok

 

How about this from REAL life   

 

I was travelling around finding people that had trained with Mr . Nishihira ... directly ... 1 on 1 .   One of them told me this story

 

(but first a bit of background , check the Wiki article on him, if you have not yet .   Now , he had a few  fellow students that where US servicemen ) .... and you know  what USA did to Okinawa  ! ) under Hohan Soken .  When Hohan Soken died  , who was to be the new 'head' and teacher ?  Some decided it was Koesai Nishihira  ( he had documents, and inherited sword , that's a big deal in that culture )  and they informed their students that Mr. N was the new head  and they went to him for training visits .  Most of them IMO opinion didnt follow what he taught   properly and devolved back into  modern style, pay as you go, belt hierarchy McDojo   ( Mr N never did that and good students of his didnt either , they   where  'unadvertised' - word of mouth and taught from home ) . Still , people would come to HIS home  and train with this 'style'  .  he was very subtle about his take on things  and not wanting to offend anyone .

 

Anyway  the point is .....  1of them , a 'student'  ( let's say A ) of   a guy who was the head here (let's call him B )   , went back without the others there ,  to go train wit,h who he had been told  was the  new head and guy that 'got it all '  .... so here is my comment on those film masters ;

 

-  A is very polite on arrival, after some niceties he is invited by Mr N. into his training area and  asked to  ''Please Show me what you know ."

 

So he did some moves, some kata ,  some applications ...  Mr N .  " Oh , very good ... yes  B's style is very good , you have done well . "

 

A ; " Mr N.  with all due respect to B , I have been training under him for years  and yes he is very good and I learnt a lot . But if I want lessons from him , I travel to town , but now I have come half way around the planet to see you and learn from you . "  and bowed .

 

Great response !    Mr N. acted embarrassed and said  "  Ohhhh thank you !  "  Looked him up and down  , "Okay , we start  tomorrow or later ... tell me when 'jet lag' gone . "

 

- and then A started showing me what Mr N taught him  .... WOW  ! 

 

   ... and dont take MA films too seriously   

 

 

 

Another story  from there ;   the lads are training with Mr. N  .   Some  dude in the group at the end of the session goes "Oi ! " to Mr N  and shapes up to fight him .  Mr N leaps through the air with a right roundhouse at his knee making the guy step back and block, but its a fake, it was  double flying roundhouse an the other came around and hit the side of the guys knee .  They had to take him to hospital . 

 

I am sure you get 'the moral of the story ' .   

 

 

 

 

 

.... and thank you for being polite to me  ' Thrice Daily San '.

 

Spoiler

  .. because  if you are not ..... well, all sorts of things could end up happening .

 

 

 

....  ooops ,  I mean 

 

       

.

Edited 22 hours ago by Nungali

[Ajay0]

On 10/11/2024 at 11:30 PM, 心神 ~ said:

 

I've read a few discussions on finding a good teacher. I would like to know what one should do to develop personal discipline to become a good student worthy of a good teacher, especially as a student coming from a Western culture.

 

(Apologies if this is not the right section for this question.)

 

 

This is a very beautiful and important concept and point. 

 

Often the right teacher could be there, but because of lack of right mindset and other qualities, the student will lose the opportunity to learn and improve.

 

Even if the teacher may be deficient in teaching skills, the student with the right mindset and qualities can learn optimally all that is to be learnt from the teacher.

[S:C]

On 10.9.2024 at 11:30 PM, Lois said:

 

 

[S:C]

As long as we haven’t a no-resistance (zero-Ohm)teacher that reaches to us from the ‘other side of the light’ we must be aware that we could be taking to the fool or the sage in our teacher at any time… 

 

and as well act and react from the same positions ourselves … as also we still are partly fool and (if lucky) partly sage. 

Not saying: anything goes, but - be reasonable and proportionate in forbidding someone to speak his/her voice! 
 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by S:C

[S:C]

4 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

This is a very beautiful and important concept and point. 

 

Often the right teacher could be there, but because of lack of right mindset and other qualities, the student will lose the opportunity to learn and improve.

 

Even if the teacher may be deficient in teaching skills, the student with the right mindset and qualities can learn optimally all that is to be learnt from the teacher.

Indeed. 
And if despite training, discipline and listening there is no improvement it might be time to move on. 

[Thrice Daily]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

" Film "   .....   ok

 

How about this from REAL life   

 

Another story  from there ;   the lads are training with Mr. N  .   Some  dude in the group at the end of the session goes "Oi ! " to Mr N  and shapes up to fight him .  Mr N leaps through the air with a right roundhouse at his knee making the guy step back and block, but its a fake, it was  double flying roundhouse an the other came around and hit the side of the guys knee .  They had to take him to hospital . 

 

So what are we saying , Taoist Texts has to work on his double flying roundhouse kicks? 😆 

 

I know the movies are just movies but it seemed fitting. And I agree, challenging someone more masterful disrespectfully or approaching elders with disrespect should result in a similar fate imho , or at least being verbally cut off at the knee…

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

So what are we saying , Taoist Texts has to work on his double flying roundhouse kicks? 😆 

 

Regarding TT ; I would require him to do double roundhouse flying kicks ... at the same time !  

 

 

Spoiler

Now THAT is hip flexibility !

 

( think about it, its impossible .    and extremely difficult even consecutively;  'Our' roundhouse kick' is different from most  and does not start like this

 

 

Position 1 , might be okay when rules apply  , but we didnt follow those rules  ( I still dont ) .

 

I wanna see TT  (or anyone ) fly through the air ,  with both legs in position 1  and then bring the balls of his feet together    

 

9 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

I know the movies are just movies but it seemed fitting. And I agree, challenging someone more masterful disrespectfully or approaching elders with disrespect should result in a similar fate imho , or at least being verbally cut off at the knee…

 

There where more repercussions . People freaked out  " why did that happen "  ????  Mr . N  (outraged )  " he want to fight me ! "

 

" No no ... he wanted to   'spar' with you  ! "  The best way out seemed to be to agree it was a 'cultural translation error ' .

 

That guy should have known to bow first and then ask the teacher if would spar with him in able for him to learn some things .  Once many years back, in a tournament  I saw a nervous green belt hesitating to attack a brown belt . Brown belt smirked and  called him in with a hand movement  .... WHISTLE  stop !   Ref came up to him " Do you want a half point penalty for showing disrespect to minor graded karateka ?"   ... and that was for not showing respect to LOWER grade !

 

Result was  " Very sorry for misunderstanding , Charlie . "  ... bow .

 

(The next morning . guys came downstairs   to find Mr N sleeping on the lounge .  "  Why  are you sleeping on lounge ? " 

 

"  Wife angry at me  ....  because  Charlie's knee . " 

 

  

 

(you see , above  the head teacher  of a style is 'the secret master '    )