The Downvote Feature!

[Cobie]

 

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

… my contextual point ?

 

Please remind me, what was your contextual point ? 

 

Edited October 15 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

21 hours ago, Nungali said:

… I dont like Cobie …

 

Spoiler

yes, that’s really nasty quoting. 

 

Edited October 15 by Cobie

[Thrice Daily]

I think the downvote is really helpful, it keeps the rapport going.

 

That blue and red yinyang rocks can it gets pushed through?

[Cobie]

 

21 hours ago, Nungali said:

… Qi  =   Oxygen PLUS food …

Exactly. Oxygen gives our cells the ability to break down food in order to get the energy we need to survive.

 

Spoiler

yes, that’s even nastier quoting. 

 

Edited October 15 by Cobie

[dwai]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

I think the downvote is really helpful, it keeps the rapport going.

 

That blue and red yinyang rocks can it gets pushed through?

There! Done! 

[Thrice Daily]

"Chi = Oxygen" - I love that

 

Nice work with the fire and water downvote too, most excellent!!!

[ChiDragon]

On 10/14/2024 at 5:50 PM, Nungali said:

Always good to see your translations ... however sometimes  your logic seems awry ....

 

The above shows oxygen might be an ingrediant of air , but not its equivlence  .  IE  Qi  = Oxygen .

 

Wrong .   By the above logic  Qi  =   Oxygen PLUS food .

 

Go on .... explain to me how 'Chinese logic' is different   .   

In Chinese logic, anything is related or pertained within the subject are inclusive. In Chinese thinking, every thing is scrambled, filtered and sorted out in the mind. If two minds are in resonance, then, the communication is completed. The discrepancy with the western thinking is that everything has to be spelled out word for word, and with a finger point at something in order to be understood by others.

Here is how the logic goes. Qi is air and oxygen is in the air. When we breathe in the air, the oxygen within the air goes into the body too. By logic, it doesn't matter if it is air or oxygen, the reaction will take place inside the body. You have the same result anyway.

BTW That is the reason why I am having a communication failure here.

Edited October 16 by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Please remind me, what was your contextual point ? 

 

 

THE  contextual point .

 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Exactly. Oxygen gives our cells the ability to break down food in order to get the energy we need to survive.

 

  Hide contents

yes, that’s even nastier quoting. 

 

 

and rather  an exercise in avoiding answering the CONTEXTUAL point .

 

or is it a deliberate 'misunderstanding'  ?

[Taomeow]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:20 PM, Cobie said:

 

The traditional character for ‘qi’ is 氣 . The character has 2 components:

气 qi4 - air

米 mi3 - rice

 

气 + 米 —> 氣 

air + rice —> qi 

oxygen  + food  —> energy

 

 

 

 

Originally the character for qi referred to mist rising from the earth to form clouds. 

Circa Zhou time it was changed and was written as 炁 -- two radicals, the top one meaning "nothing" and the bottom one, "fire". 

Rice was a later addition, and in its current form the character is interpreted by some taoists as follows:

the static picture is really a representation of a dynamic system.  A pot of rice is put over fire that heats it up, the steam is rising up, and the lid on the pot starts to rattle.  That dynamic change in the system that makes the lid rattle is qi.  It is not reducible to a combination of fire, rice and steam, since neither one by itself will make the lid rattle -- you need the components to interact to produce qi.  Qi is the outcome of that interaction.  

 

As I pointed out already in another thread where qi=oxygen was proposed, qi is nowhere near limited to aerobic activities.  All anaerobic objects possess it too.  E.g. the qi of the sun and the moon and the stars is entirely anaerobic.  Qi is not oxygen, not energy, not "life force," not any of those new age or pseudo-scientific reductionist assaults on the greatest insight of Chinese civilization. 

 

Qi is the medium and message of meaningful change.  I've sometimes thought that if I wasn't a taoist I might get a tattoo, and if I were to get a tattoo, I would get exactly that definition for a tattoo, revealed to me by an immortal.  MEOWWWWW.   

Edited October 16 by Taomeow

[Nungali]

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

In Chinese logic, anything is related or pertained within the subject are inclusive. In Chinese thinking, every thing is scrambled, filtered and sorted out in the mind. If two minds are in resonance, then, the communication is completed.

 

 

 

The discrepancy with the western thinking is that everything has to be spelled out word for word, and with a finger point at something in order to be understood by others.

Here is how the logic goes. Qi is air and oxygen is in the air. When we breathe in the air, the oxygen within the air goes into the body too.

 

Ideal logic ! ... But where is the next step ?  Air and oxygen COMBINE with food to make Qi  ? Did you leave that out accidentally or was that 'Chinese logic' .  I was following YOUR logic , but it seemed to have a hole in it  and now a bigger hole by omission of what you said before . is that Chinese logic too ?

 

By logic, it doesn't matter if it is air or oxygen, the reaction will take place inside the body. You have the same result anyway.

 

But I wasnt pointing out the difference between air and oxygen , I was pointing out that  oxygen is not Qi as you yourself said it was an ingredient that makes Qi .

 

There goes the 'contextual point ' again !

BTW That is the reason why I am having a communication failure here.

 

I dont think so ..

 

I think its the way you expressed it . I DO understand the principle though ; in the west    breath / air / 'life force' comes from a similar root ; 'pnuema'

 

"

Pneuma (πνεῦμα) is an ancient Greek word for "breath", and in a religious context for "spirit" or "soul".^[1][2] It has various technical meanings for medical writers and philosophers of classical antiquity, particularly in regard to physiology, and is also used in Greek translations of ruach רוח in the Hebrew Bible, and in the Greek New Testament.

In classical philosophy, it is distinguishable from psyche (ψυχή), which originally meant "breath of life", but is regularly translated as "spirit" or most often "soul".^[3]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma

 

l

 

 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

?  Air and oxygen COMBINE with food to make Qi  ? Did you leave that out accidentally or was that 'Chinese logic' .  I was following YOUR logic , but it seemed to have a hole in it  and now a bigger hole by omission of what you said before . is that Chinese logic too ?

Food was assumed it is the glucose. It was understood if someone has the desirable knowledge in the mind. Sorry about that.

 

As general knowledge:
Oxygen in the air and Glucose in the foods.

 

PS In order to get involve with the argument, one need to have some knowledge about cellular respiration. Without it, one may deny any thing. It's meaningless to argue.

Edited October 16 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

But I wasnt pointing out the difference between air and oxygen , I was pointing out that  oxygen is not Qi as you yourself said it was an ingredient that makes Qi .

The problem with using the term Qi. Qi has multiple meanings. Qi: any gaseous substance, air, air containing other gaseous substances. At the time of speaking, it depends on what was in one's mind. The other must know what that means to continue with the conversation.

[Nungali]

14 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

The problem with using the term Qi. Qi has multiple meanings. Qi: any gaseous substance, air, air containing other gaseous substances. At the time of speaking, it depends on what was in one's mind. The other must know what that means to continue with the conversation.

 

Thats why I was going with YOUR meaning .  That was not my meaning  , I was going along with the translation (even though I dont agree with it )  both you and Cobie seemed to be claiming .

 

I find in one set of circumstances , Taomeow's explanations more enlightening and in other set of circumstances my own interpretation is more enlightening , but any should be able to confirm with their own internal system and logic .

 

I found your 'explanations'  disingenuous , all the way through ; duck, weave, excuse, red herrings, etc .  Thats easily detectable, regardless of any subject matter .

 

Anyway, I hope you feel better about the new downvote symbol .    I haven't checked if all the old back dated ones changed as  well , bummer ,  that means all the red ones you back  gave me in a flurry , after a certain observation I made about your 'argument ' ,  have turned 'placid'      

 

.

[ChiDragon]

31 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Anyway, I hope you feel better about the new downvote symbol . 

Anyway, I have no intention to use it anyhow!

[ChiDragon]

36 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I found your 'explanations'  disingenuous , all the way through ; duck, weave, excuse, red herrings, etc .  Thats easily detectable, regardless of any subject matter .

 

Thanks for the feedback! I don’t feel too bad that is because my fellow native friends have been taken it as gospel!

 

Peace!

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Lmao I can’t believe you actually change it

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

@dwai this white background is massively triggering my OCD, could you please replace the downvote with this transparent one?

 

[dwai]

4 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

@dwai this white background is massively triggering my OCD, could you please replace the downvote with this transparent one?

 

Done!

[dwai]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Anyway, I have no intention to use it anyhow!

Looks like you have been using it (I see some pretty Taiji downvotes against my posts 🤣) 

[Thrice Daily]

I’m saving mine for special occasions 😆 

[liminal_luke]

So the new downvote symbol is supposed to represent yin and yang?  Maybe it´s sort of a consolation prize: your post isn´t strictly correct but at least ya got the yin and yang part right so here ya go.  Alternatively, we could use the reaction to signal that a post is unamerican.  Red, white, and blue with a downward arrow -- kinda brilliant.  

[Taomeow]

36 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

So the new downvote symbol is supposed to represent yin and yang?  Maybe it´s sort of a consolation prize: your post isn´t strictly correct but at least ya got the yin and yang part right so here ya go.  Alternatively, we could use the reaction to signal that a post is unamerican.  Red, white, and blue with a downward arrow -- kinda brilliant.  

 

Not just un-American, more like anti- nearly everybody:

 

  

 

 

[liminal_luke]

14 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Qi is the medium and message of meaningful change.   

 

An intriguing definition!  To my mind, the word with the most qi in the sentence above is "meaningful."  It´s a word that brings up so many questions.  Are some changes devoid of meaning?  Meaningful to whom?  I´m thinking about flucuations in the value of a stock.  Some people consider a certain amount of flucation noise -- change that doesn´t portend a meaningful new trend.  And then there´s change in value that has qi behind it -- change that signals sustained change in the future.  Maybe the trick to making money is to sense the qi.  (I´m in my materialistic taoist period.)

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

An intriguing definition!  To my mind, the word with the most qi in the sentence above is "meaningful."  It´s a word that brings up so many questions.  Are some changes devoid of meaning?  Meaningful to whom?  I´m thinking about flucuations in the value of a stock.  Some people consider a certain amount of flucation noise -- change that doesn´t portend a meaningful new trend.  And then there´s change in value that has qi behind it -- change that signals sustained change in the future.  Maybe the trick to making money is to sense the qi.  (I´m in my materialistic taoist period.)

 

Meaningful to humans.  Taoism places the actual live human in the center (between heaven and earth -- the central figure both physically and conceptually.)  What is meaningful change depends on the situation and who is assessing it and what for.  E.g. your qi both affects the way you walk and is simultaneoulsy affected by it (that's what "medium and message" signify -- qi changes the system as it is changed by the system, simultaneously.) 

Now then, the way you walk is affected by the kind of shoes you wear.  Change a pair of shoes that are too tight to a pair a size bigger and there will be meaningful change.  But if instead of a size bigger your second pair is a nanometer bigger (that's a very small difference only detectable with a microscope), the change is meaningless.  However the same nanometer of change is meaningful if you're looking at nanoparticles under a microscope.  So "meaningful" or "meaningless" is always a function of the context -- i.e. the system under scrutiny.  Qi is context dependent.    

Edited October 16 by Taomeow