Eden Posted October 21 Is Kundalini Shakti the same concept as Preheaven Chi in Taoism? In my experience the Hindu is opening themselves and aligning their subtle body for this torroidal kundalini energy to start flowing through the central channel... Taoist is accomplishing the same thing just in a different manner, like cultivating the Jing electromagnetic energy field that holds that body in alignment... Shakti uniting with Shiva in the crown and their outpouring of divine love producing amrita... same phenomenon of microcosmic orbit and sexual energy (jing) rising as Chi to nourish Shen in the brain to produce the golden elixir... like its same process just different method of cultivation? and slightly different physics of how everything is working... Like all spiritual paths more or less aiming for the same final goal, but their methods and ways of getting there are different... and cause of that there is different effects and scenery and phenomena that show up along the way, and not necessarily will you reach the "final goal" with your chosen path.. as some paths have different obstacles to overcome... like with Taoist path for a guy they have to overcome leaking sexual energy to even really begin to part of laying the foundation and building their Jing and Chi in order to nourish Shen... Or the Zen Buddhist may have some ability to rest in a no-mind state during their meditation, but maybe its never "deep" enough to really lead to any profound energetic awakening. Hindu Yogi may cause their kundalini to stir but then they may experience kundalini syndrome and have it fall back down? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted October 21 Imho, energetic awakening is not necessary for spiritual awakening. Different paths (could) have various methods, results, and goals. For a Hindu Yogi (Yoga is a broad term not restricted to Patanjali Yoga), the objective is Self-Realization - not profound energetic awakening. However, some take the Kundalini awakening path to it. Others might use the path of self-inquiry to get there. All those things you mention might happen, but they might not. It depends on the sincerity, fortitude, and respect for the tradition and teacher they follow. The rest will fall into place if we take care of those foundational things. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eden Posted October 21 2 hours ago, dwai said: Imho, energetic awakening is not necessary for spiritual awakening. Different paths (could) have various methods, results, and goals. For a Hindu Yogi (Yoga is a broad term not restricted to Patanjali Yoga), the objective is Self-Realization - not profound energetic awakening. However, some take the Kundalini awakening path to it. Others might use the path of self-inquiry to get there. All those things you mention might happen, but they might not. It depends on the sincerity, fortitude, and respect for the tradition and teacher they follow. The rest will fall into place if we take care of those foundational things. Yes but everything is interconnected, interrelated and interdependent... so those who achieve some sort of spiritual awakening through a more meditative path, inevitably will have energetic shifts and transformations of the body, mind-body-consciousness-spirit-chi-nervous system-physiology-brain chemistry-prana-kundalini.. all interrelated. maybe there are different depths to how deep realization can be? or how deep spiritual realization has been integrated? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sahaja Posted October 21 5 hours ago, Eden said: Is Kundalini Shakti the same concept as Preheaven Chi in Taoism? In my experience the Hindu is opening themselves and aligning their subtle body for this torroidal kundalini energy to start flowing through the central channel... Taoist is accomplishing the same thing just in a different manner, like cultivating the Jing electromagnetic energy field that holds that body in alignment... Shakti uniting with Shiva in the crown and their outpouring of divine love producing amrita... same phenomenon of microcosmic orbit and sexual energy (jing) rising as Chi to nourish Shen in the brain to produce the golden elixir... like its same process just different method of cultivation? and slightly different physics of how everything is working... Like all spiritual paths more or less aiming for the same final goal, but their methods and ways of getting there are different... and cause of that there is different effects and scenery and phenomena that show up along the way, and not necessarily will you reach the "final goal" with your chosen path.. as some paths have different obstacles to overcome... like with Taoist path for a guy they have to overcome leaking sexual energy to even really begin to part of laying the foundation and building their Jing and Chi in order to nourish Shen... Or the Zen Buddhist may have some ability to rest in a no-mind state during their meditation, but maybe it’s never "deep" enough to really lead to any profound energetic awakening. Hindu Yogi may cause their kundalini to stir but then they may experience kundalini syndrome and have it fall back down? There is an interesting parallel between amrta and the jade fluid in the two traditions (tantric yoga and Neidan) though there is variance in methodology (e.g Khecari mudra/Nyasa vs MCO). My understanding is that Jing is not sexual energy though it may be a very, very small part of it. . According to the early Daoists (Nei Yeh) Jing is qi in consolidated form that is required for life and that we are naturally endowed with. According to them, it is lost through desire, emotions and selfishness. Stilling these things stills the Jing allowing it to be in its natural state (and to fuel the cultivation process in Neidan). my understanding is there are paths of addition that cultivate energetics and paths of subtraction that don’t. However, in the end the paths of subtraction also end up energetically in the same place as the paths of addition. I imagine this last step for those on the paths of subtraction must be quite exciting! I think people tend to dumb down Kundalini into simple energetics. My understanding is that Kundalini is at a much deeper level than cultivating Jing and qi. It’s more like at the refining shen level in Neidan. In yoga people get kriyas and call it Kundalini, in Daoist internal arts they get the similar kriyas and call it Yang qi or Zi Fa Gong. It’s less problematic in Daoist arts because they have cultivated a strong grounding mechanism, the lower Dan tian, to keep the excess Yang qi out of the head. Yoga has the kanda but I don’t think that many cultivate this as a grounding mechanism leading to more energetic issues with “Kundalini”. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted October 22 22 hours ago, Eden said: Yes but everything is interconnected, interrelated and interdependent... so those who achieve some sort of spiritual awakening through a more meditative path, inevitably will have energetic shifts and transformations of the body, mind-body-consciousness-spirit-chi-nervous system-physiology-brain chemistry-prana-kundalini.. all interrelated. I think it comes down to what one focuses on. 22 hours ago, Eden said: maybe there are different depths to how deep realization can be? or how deep spiritual realization has been integrated? Realization of true nature is one and done. There is a permanent switch. But how the mind reconciles with it of course is dependent on the story each person holds on to. Some entirely let go of all stories, so there’s nothing more to be done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thrice Daily Posted October 29 On 22/10/2024 at 12:37 AM, Sahaja said: There is an interesting parallel between amrta and the jade fluid in the two traditions (tantric yoga and Neidan) though there is variance in methodology (e.g Khecari mudra/Nyasa vs MCO). My understanding is that Jing is not sexual energy though it may be a very, very small part of it. . According to the early Daoists (Nei Yeh) Jing is qi in consolidated form that is required for life and that we are naturally endowed with. According to them, it is lost through desire, emotions and selfishness. Stilling these things stills the Jing allowing it to be in its natural state (and to fuel the cultivation process in Neidan). my understanding is there are paths of addition that cultivate energetics and paths of subtraction that don’t. However, in the end the paths of subtraction also end up energetically in the same place as the paths of addition. I imagine this last step for those on the paths of subtraction must be quite exciting! I think people tend to dumb down Kundalini into simple energetics. My understanding is that Kundalini is at a much deeper level than cultivating Jing and qi. It’s more like at the refining shen level in Neidan. In yoga people get kriyas and call it Kundalini, in Daoist internal arts they get the similar kriyas and call it Yang qi or Zi Fa Gong. It’s less problematic in Daoist arts because they have cultivated a strong grounding mechanism, the lower Dan tian, to keep the excess Yang qi out of the head. Yoga has the kanda but I don’t think that many cultivate this as a grounding mechanism leading to more energetic issues with “Kundalini”. Totally agree with you here. I'd like to hear about the different physical mechanisms that are used with the will in Yoga to raise Kundalini Shakti mindfully, or i'm wondering is this always automatic and just happens along with Pranayama and good Asana practice. It did with me when I learned Hatha, but I didn't have information on he front channel and bring energy down, lots of it was rising and I had a feeling I should have been doing something with it to connect a circuit or something but I couldnt figure it out through intuition, it just kept rising up and felt like it was leaving via the top of my head. The science of the ida and pingala are also interesting to me and have the experiences and fuctions line up with Taoism, the channels and concept of yin-yang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sahaja Posted October 30 On 10/29/2024 at 10:52 AM, Thrice Daily said: Totally agree with you here. I'd like to hear about the different physical mechanisms that are used with the will in Yoga to raise Kundalini Shakti mindfully, or i'm wondering is this always automatic and just happens along with Pranayama and good Asana practice. It did with me when I learned Hatha, but I didn't have information on he front channel and bring energy down, lots of it was rising and I had a feeling I should have been doing something with it to connect a circuit or something but I couldnt figure it out through intuition, it just kept rising up and felt like it was leaving via the top of my head. The science of the ida and pingala are also interesting to me and have the experiences and fuctions line up with Taoism, the channels and concept of yin-yang. Here is a link to some articles that describe some of the physical mechanisms involved from a Nath Tantric Hatha Yoga perspective. The article on Shakti chalana talks about one of the main processes used, the churning. This stuff is challenging, takes a long time and requires an experienced guide. https://shadowyoga.com/articles 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuiKang Posted October 31 On 21/10/2024 at 11:07 PM, Eden said: Is Kundalini Shakti the same concept as Preheaven Chi in Taoism? In my experience the Hindu is opening themselves and aligning their subtle body for this torroidal kundalini energy to start flowing through the central channel... Taoist is accomplishing the same thing just in a different manner, like cultivating the Jing electromagnetic energy field that holds that body in alignment... Shakti uniting with Shiva in the crown and their outpouring of divine love producing amrita... same phenomenon of microcosmic orbit and sexual energy (jing) rising as Chi to nourish Shen in the brain to produce the golden elixir... like its same process just different method of cultivation? and slightly different physics of how everything is working... Like all spiritual paths more or less aiming for the same final goal, but their methods and ways of getting there are different... and cause of that there is different effects and scenery and phenomena that show up along the way, and not necessarily will you reach the "final goal" with your chosen path.. as some paths have different obstacles to overcome... like with Taoist path for a guy they have to overcome leaking sexual energy to even really begin to part of laying the foundation and building their Jing and Chi in order to nourish Shen... Or the Zen Buddhist may have some ability to rest in a no-mind state during their meditation, but maybe its never "deep" enough to really lead to any profound energetic awakening. Hindu Yogi may cause their kundalini to stir but then they may experience kundalini syndrome and have it fall back down? Nope. Those kundalini thing is post heaven Qi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
