Kundalini vs Preheaven Chi

[Master Logray]

12 hours ago, Bindi said:

Out of interest, does anyone know what this line translates to, it’s from the external yellow court scripture:

 

 三關既通，真炁自升

 

 

 

It says the 3 gates are opened, the real Chi will arise automatically.   The 3 gate normally refers to the back body 3 gates/passes, the perineum, the back, the back of the head.   But the order of the 2 phrases is not clear.  Usually when the Chi collects up to a certain level, it will rise to go through the 3 gates.  While this sentence says, the gates are opened, then the real Chi will rise.   The exact meaning will depend on the texts and circumstances.

 

[Bindi]

On 11/2/2025 at 4:07 AM, blue eyed snake said:

long post

 

 

 

so have read up on this, it gives a concise description of several possible states the 'system'  can rest in.

here you find the text about kundalini rising to the crown and out 

https://swamij.com/kundalini-awakening-6.htm

 

 

this is what piqued my interest, it says here there are chakras between the third eye and the crown ( excuse my simple language, I am not much of a reader and preferably use the words I am used to)

 

 

many years ago I had a kundalini experience, without even knowing what it was, once I wrote to a darling bum:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

As I recall it the energy went right up and got stuck somewhere halfway my back, 't was slightly higher then ming men.

 

there it stuck, i became very uncomfortable to put it softly and then anxiety reared its head.Then I began to call for help in my mind.

 

A voice answered and instructed me how to manipulate the energy ( a bit to the right, noo, not like that, softly, do not force thing, yes that's better... like that)  and after following those instructions all of a sudden it went upwards like woosh, went out of the top of my head and it felt like lindenhoney or molasses like stuff slowly dripped down my head until it met my eyebrows.

 

like this

 

 

together with the woosh the realization that ego is just a construct kicked in, hard. Very funny for someone who at the time thought that was all newagey non-sense.

 

that voice ( and others) also calmed me in the hours ( days) after, until i could sustain myself.

 

 

When i woke up the day after this happened i had a small dent in my forehead, tender to the touch. The layer between skullbone and skin ( subcutaneous connective tissue) had disappeared overnight.  strange uh.

weeks, maybe months after I began to look into what this experience had been and came out with kundalini as it fitted in all details. But the dent in my forehead remained a mystery. Another darling bum pointed me to the acupuncture point that is sitting there, 

 

shenting, DU-MAI 24, Courtyard of the Spirit.

 

 

but there my search ended, I did once mention it here on the bums hoping for some pointers but got a reaction like ' oh that's just yuan qi' or something like that so that wasn't helpful. Especially as i have never learned all those chinese terms.

 

but now i got hold of this text linked by Bindi

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Guru chakra: Beyond the first six chakras, between there and the crown chakra, many other chakras, levels, or layers of reality are experienced. For the aspirant who is willing to do so, the guru chakra is used to purify the mind and to bring down spiritual truths. "Gu" means darkness and "ru" means light. Guru is the light that dispels the darkness of ignorance. Guru is not any person, although guru may operate through a person. Guru is actually the higher knowledge itself. Guru chakra is the doorway to that knowledge, to the wisdom and guidance of the teacher within. The sixth chakra, at the eyebrow center, is called ajna chakra, which includes "a" and "jna", which means the center without knowledge or with little knowledge ("a" is without and "jna" is knowledge). Guru chakra is experienced in the forehead, and is also called jnana chakra, or the center with knowledge. The knowledge of ajna is lower knowledge, while the knowledge of jnana is higher knowledge. The yogi invites all of the thoughts and samskaras to arise in the mind field of ajna chakra and offers them into the higher knowledge, the triangular shaped fire of guru or jnana chakra (Ajna and guru chakras are also called drikuti and trikuti respectively). From that process the pathway is cleared, and higher wisdom and teachings come down to the ajna. Eventually, awareness itself travels upward, receding through and beyond, to That which is the final abode, the Absolute, the union of Shiva and Shakti.

 

which tells us there is a chakra between third eye and crown, called guru chakra 

(or jnana or trikuti.)  I had seen very old pictures with ' something' high up on the forehead but now I had a search-term.

Searching came up with several ideas were this point is located but it was all muddy and unclear until I found this and it seems to me that this is a source to be trusted.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

so now I have three points of information, the chinese Shenting (courtyard of the spirit), the guru chakra, aka the center of higher knowledge or, as swami Rama puts it: fire of knowledge.

Plus my own experience and my forehead, through the years the dent has deepened so much that i am sure part of the skullbone has melted. A groove down to the third eye has developed and the third eye itself has dented. Also at the spot of the frontal fontanelle a large but not deep indentation has developed.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So

it did not come 'out of the blue' , i had diligently practiced standing posture, some other practices and meditation. several years, the last years it had added up to a daily meditation of an hour and about same for standing practice. Every day, sometimes more plus regular sessions at the dojo

never done any yoga btw.

 

the ren-du system was open and circulating, the central channel was open so the large circulation also flowing, the other extraordinary channels were open or in the process of opening. The lower tantien was hot and turning.

BTW, teacher told me that apart from the ren-du circulation there is also a "sideways" circulation, ( a bit like how the indian pictures show it ). (He told me that when strange and uncomfortable body things started to happen, he said something like: you're clearing up old emotional stuff and opening these side channels, the discomfort will pass. Much text from my usually taciturn teacher.)

He's a chinese and his teacher was chinese also.

 

 

This simple soul has encountered 4 "sorts" of energy

the stuff you get born with

the light from above, called Grace by Christians and their way to god ( and/or enlightenment/realisation)

the energy from mother earth, rising through your legs and so entering the bodily energy system. I was told that some people feel this as originating in the perineum.

 

and kundalini, the favored way of the culture of india.

In my experience it is embodied and it sits in the sacral bone, there the hot fire started. Although it rose up the spine, it was totally different from the ren-du circulation, that goes through the perineum which also has a function in that circulation. The Ren-Du always went smoothly and 'watery'.

Kundalini was hot as fire, prickly as electricity, quite unbearably really, until it popped out of the top of my head.

 

I would not call one 'system' better than the others,

it's simply different ways.

Thanks for sharing this BES 🙂 Did you notice any changes in either direct seeing when Ajna was pierced or spiritual knowledge when guru was pierced? 

[blue eyed snake]

On 14-2-2025 at 12:14 AM, Bindi said:

Thanks for sharing this BES 🙂 Did you notice any changes in either direct seeing when Ajna was pierced or spiritual knowledge when guru was pierced? 

 

 clear memory of a suddenly acquired seeing of aura's and illness, 

 

black or dark grey patches on the the aura were people had illness/ blockages.

I did not want that at all and was glad when it slowly disappeared, also more often people saying to me: how did you know that.

 

probably more but it's long ago and my memory is not as good as it used to be.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 clear memory of a suddenly acquired seeing of aura's and illness, 

 

black or dark grey patches on the the aura were people had illness/ blockages.

I did not want that at all and was glad when it slowly disappeared, also more often people saying to me: how did you know that.

 

probably more but it's long ago and my memory is not as good as it used to be.

Do you know if it is possible to keep that ability?

[Bindi]

13 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 clear memory of a suddenly acquired seeing of aura's and illness, 

 

black or dark grey patches on the the aura were people had illness/ blockages.

 

I would expect something like this.

 

13 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

I did not want that at all and was glad when it slowly disappeared,

 

I think kundalini would have to be present at ajna for longer for direct seeing to have remained and even increased. Do you have the sense that kundalini has descended and stayed down since this experience? 

 

13 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

also more often people saying to me: how did you know that.

 

probably more but it's long ago and my memory is not as good as it used to be.

 

[markern]

On 15.1.2025 at 3:30 PM, dwai said:

Ah, Manonasha - what he means is that the mind doesn’t control the individual as it becomes clear as being a process that occurs using reflected consciousness. 

 

Vasanas are mental impressions/patterns that arise periodically. There are some which are not considered detrimental - those may or may not be dissolved. For example, Sri Ramkrishna Paramhamsa retained his love for food. These are called “Lesha avidya “, some minimal patterns that allow for the system to function after realization. And there are differences of personality even after realization,  otherwise realization would lead to creating automatons. Dissolving mental patterns doesn’t mean all patterns are dissolved. The fact that personality is retained to a certain degree means some mental patterns remain. Not everything needs to be given up.
 

For example, if someone has a penchant for tidiness, there is nothing inherently negative about it, so why would it need to be dissolved? 
 

I am very interested in this topic. In what changes after awakening and what does not. Where can I read more about how these distinctions are though of in the yogic tradition/Vedanta?

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, markern said:

what changes after awakening and what does not

 

The awakening process is progressive.   The human awakens to the physical plane and to the emotional plane and to ...

 

Having awakened (become conscious) on a particular plane, the next task is to learn to control the human's body formed from the energy substance of that plane.

 

The next step is to refine that particular body so that it is sensitive to higher energies/light  and then align the substances of that body so that the higher light might flow smoothly through it.

 

With some preconditions including karma, proportions of denser substance, and intent,  the above work on the physical, emotional and mental bodies qualifies the human for first stage enlightenment

 

Once first stage enlightenment is achieved, the initiate is expected to cooperate with many physical and non-physical beings.

 

Gardening is good practice

 

 

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

On 18-2-2025 at 9:03 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Do you know if it is possible to keep that ability?

 

sure that is possible, but I did not want it. I soon learnt to shut out those visions or open them as  the situation warranted. But mostly I shut it out, it's quite overwhelming to see all that shit of your fellow humans. Also I had no use for the information, well those may be rationalisations looking back, I just did not want it, like " please take this away from me, unburden me from this new load.

 

But even years after when curiosity got the better of me i could look and sometimes told people: "hm, maybe it's good to go visit a doctor, that little pain that you just told me about might be a symptom of something bad"

 

also the memory of the most beautiful golden 'bubble' around a toddler, he will grow up to be an extraordinary man.

 

Teacher once told that his teacher trained him to hone this ability so as to be better able to help people with their ailments, a hard training that was. I could have chosen that, but I did not.

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

On 19-2-2025 at 8:21 AM, Bindi said:

I think kundalini would have to be present at ajna for longer for direct seeing to have remained and even increased. Do you have the sense that kundalini has descended and stayed down since this experience? 

 

uhm... 

 

the first weeks were an ordeal, energy kept rising, through all of the channels when memory serves me well. had to do grounding practice every 3 or so hours. Twice a night I woke up due to it, stood beside my bed to do grounding practice and took another nap. after several weeks this began to abate and at last the force of it became smaller.

 

It never really ended though, just as there was an awareness of the small and large circulation, the rising chi of mother earth and the descending light/ fine energy from above. This new one added itself to the chorus, a continuous soft flowing energy up the spine, always.

no tingling, heat or other unpleasant sensations.

Nowadays that awareness has become more notable, also several channels have become wider, especially the central channel, the zongmai/ chongmai, the one that goes straight through the body.  Plus those physical dents on the head became deeper and more pronounced.

 

apart from that ego was gone, cut away with one fell swoop and it took much to get balanced into that. The remnants of me walked around, baffled at the idiotic material abundance, all those packages at the supermarket. But also, just turn a knob and warm water comes out et cetera.

 

Plus the sad isolation of the humans that were being encountered, all wrapped up in their story so tightly

 

some 6 to 8 weeks later ego began to build anew, new story developed with this 'experience'  being part of it. Part of 'me' looked at it and thought it mighty funny, see how she makes up a new story while knowing full well there ain't no truth to  it. 

 

That situation is still there, still reactive ( much less than before though) but also fully aware that it all just a made up thing, a storyline. Lately the thought/feeling "oh, why should i react to that comes more often than the ingrained reaction. And ' something' in 'me' looks at the situations and is grinning, it's just so funny really.

 

[Bindi]

13 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

uhm... 

 

the first weeks were an ordeal, energy kept rising, through all of the channels when memory serves me well. had to do grounding practice every 3 or so hours. Twice a night I woke up due to it, stood beside my bed to do grounding practice and took another nap. after several weeks this began to abate and at last the force of it became smaller.

 

It never really ended though, just as there was an awareness of the small and large circulation, the rising chi of mother earth and the descending light/ fine energy from above. This new one added itself to the chorus, a continuous soft flowing energy up the spine, always.

no tingling, heat or other unpleasant sensations.

Nowadays that awareness has become more notable, also several channels have become wider, especially the central channel, the zongmai/ chongmai, the one that goes straight through the body.  Plus those physical dents on the head became deeper and more pronounced.

 

apart from that ego was gone, cut away with one fell swoop and it took much to get balanced into that. The remnants of me walked around, baffled at the idiotic material abundance, all those packages at the supermarket. But also, just turn a knob and warm water comes out et cetera.

 

Plus the sad isolation of the humans that were being encountered, all wrapped up in their story so tightly

 

some 6 to 8 weeks later ego began to build anew, new story developed with this 'experience'  being part of it. Part of 'me' looked at it and thought it mighty funny, see how she makes up a new story while knowing full well there ain't no truth to  it. 

 

That situation is still there, still reactive ( much less than before though) but also fully aware that it all just a made up thing, a storyline. Lately the thought/feeling "oh, why should i react to that comes more often than the ingrained reaction. And ' something' in 'me' looks at the situations and is grinning, it's just so funny really.

 

 

It seems your experience led you to a nondual realisation, or something along those lines, a realisation that people buy into mental/emotional stories that aren’t real and that don’t need to be bought into (as well as your unwanted direct seeing).
 

I have a different experience of kundalini rising, I have found that kundalini takes a long time at each dantian, resolving the underlying issues at each of these points. For example you mentioned anxiety below the Ming men point, in my experience kundalini experiences existential fear of death at the middle dantian, but if she can experience that anxiety in an mdt pool that has been pre filled, somehow the pool allows her to slow down or causes her to not burn, but there’s a reason dantians are part of the system. Doing these lower levels slowly also removes the need for emergency grounding later, as the lower parts of the system have already stabilised. 
 

I don’t think direct seeing is inherently problematic, I think it’s a positive part of the unfolding process if certain preconditions are met. Having said that my mother also had a very hard time with her direct seeing, so I’ve come across this before, she disliked how it made her feel, some sort of spaced outness, though what she saw i found very valuable.
 

Our subtle energy systems are actually the biggest mystery there is to solve IMO, my working hypothesis at the moment is that the step from lower dantian energy being raised to the middle dantian is disassembled, and this is the sticking point in developing the entire system. IMO if that step gets resolved, then kundalini comes into her own.