Taiji Quan for Self Defense

[Samoobramba]

The book describe the Taiji Quan origins and include the author's commentaries of the most important Taiji Quan classics. The book gives an unique explanation of the Taiji Quan principles and the 13 energies. In the book can be found all the main solo and partner exercises of the real Taiji Quan. The book explans how Taiji Quan is used in fighting and gives the daily practice guidelines.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DJZ6422N

[Samoobramba]

Here is the table of contents from the book.

[Samoobramba]

Striking hands (Da Shou) practice (recorded for demo purposes, the actual practice is usually done more slowly)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KeKoEqJhvQ

[Thrice Daily]

Have you guys heard of Chen Pan Ling. I had the opportunity to learn some, I only did a little though.

 

It is a style developed by an engineer who also studied many Martial Arts styles, see here; 

https://www.plumpub.com/sales/dvd/dvdcoll_chenpanling1.htm

 

It struck me as being highly effective and the way it worked with the motherline I was aware of in my wingchun practice really impressed me at the time. The martial application is excellent, if you get the chance to train it, try it...

[Samoobramba]

Yes, we know about Chen Pan Ling and his Taijiquan form. Howerver the Taijiquan in the book Taiji Quan for Self Defense is even older and is base of the principles. Als the principles are clearly explained in the book.

[Thrice Daily]

18 minutes ago, Samoobramba said:

Yes, we know about Chen Pan Ling and his Taijiquan form. Howerver the Taijiquan in the book Taiji Quan for Self Defense is even older and is base of the principles. Als the principles are clearly explained in the book.

Cool, have you got any good online reading on par with this book. I can see a lot of stuff floatng around onlne, not this particular book though. 

[Samoobramba]

Sorry, but online is a lot of BS. Today al the popular course are not very good. In the book I distilled and aranged all the crucial material to began to practice Taijiquan on the right path.

There were no space to go through any Taijiquan form, not to go through any specific Qigong set, not to explain the fighting details. However I gave all the principles, I desctibed them, gave the exercises to practice them and gave the right informations on how to approch to fighting. There is no other resource on Taijiquan with this info! I have more than 1000 books on IMA, probably the same amount of instructional videos and video courses.

If anybody is realy interested what the real Taijiquan is/was about will purchase these book. The price may seem high, but is very low compared what the reader get from the book.

[Thrice Daily]

Really, you feel it is the best book out of 1000. That is quite a statement.

 

What do you think made the book so supreme over the others?

 

Do you think it could be because it really clicked with you and your learning style more than the efficacy of the book? 
 

What is the story behind the book, who created it, what was his life and training like?

 

I liked Chen Pan Ling as he was an engineer. And I think he brought much of this understanding to the TaiChi that is what I believed and at the time I noticed very much that fit this narrative. Very intricate, very respectful of mother line, not breaking or collapsing structure and showing vulnerability. 

[doc benway]

On 10/29/2024 at 11:52 AM, Thrice Daily said:

Have you guys heard of Chen Pan Ling.

 

Yes, I studied and continue to practice Chen Pan Ling's internal arts - taiji, xingyi, and bagua. 

My teacher studied with his student, Chen Jin Pao.

Very good stuff. 

His book on Taijiquan has been translated into English and is very useful. 

[Thrice Daily]

Blessings to you, Thankyou for your response Doc.

 

Chen Jin Pao Looks like a gooden, just watching him now here. Lucky to have this rare bit on YouTube by the looks of things. Scarce footage.

 

I’ll certainly revisit this and look for the book. Thanks again…

 

 

[Samoobramba]

9 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Really, you feel it is the best book out of 1000. That is quite a statement.

 

What do you think made the book so supreme over the others?

 

Do you think it could be because it really clicked with you and your learning style more than the efficacy of the book? 
 

What is the story behind the book, who created it, what was his life and training like?

 

I liked Chen Pan Ling as he was an engineer. And I think he brought much of this understanding to the TaiChi that is what I believed and at the time I noticed very much that fit this narrative. Very intricate, very respectful of mother line, not breaking or collapsing structure and showing vulnerability. 

1) As I said i have more than 1000 books on IMA. Usualy in the books are not a lot of useful info. Maybe some book are very good. This book has all the things I found useful in the other books and also I added things that are not in the other books.

2) The book is the synthesis of my discoveries on Taiji Quan. Is the collection of my findings on Taiji Quan. I tried to write a book about the Taiji Quan as was 150 years ago, also taught at the Imperial Palace by Yang Lu Chan, desctibe it's principles and main exercises.

3) Yes, I know about the Chen Pan Ling's form/style. IMHO is not bad. However his style was made in the 19th century upon the Yang, Wu and Chen style. At that time fighting was not anymore a priority and a lot of principles were not taken into account.

[Samoobramba]

Here is a demo video about the Striking hands practice.

Striking hands practice - demo

The video was filmed only for demo purposes. The Striking hands practice is done at slower speed than on the video.

Edited November 2 by Samoobramba

[Samoobramba]

Graund Dragon Martial Arts on Tai Chi fighting: https://www.facebook.com/reel/424415257152977
Listen to the above link about the use of Tai Chi in fighting.

[Thrice Daily]

I absolutely agree, yielding is the skill and art I seek most highly to develop. Chi Sau taught in WC , leads to a sticking with opponent long enough to change energy and positioning from almost every up close scenario.

 

Yielding for me, lies not only in body structure and physical dominance of the situation by superior positioning , but in the deep intention to diffuse the situation. It’s more psychological than anything else and staying as relaxed as possible. 
 

I don’t meet many angry fighters on the streets these days though so what do I know, not feel too cocky 😂 

[Samoobramba]

Wing Chun has a simmilar aproach as Tai Chi. However Tai Chi is much more soft and use yielding more deeply. However there are many similarities, and there are many people who practice both.

[Thrice Daily]

What are the main differences and similarities in your opinion?

[ChiDragon]

On 11/2/2024 at 3:39 AM, Samoobramba said:

Wing Chun has a simmilar aproach as Tai Chi. However Tai Chi is much more soft and use yielding more deeply. However there are many similarities, and there are many people who practice both.

You had made me to wonder about that. I do agree that Tai Chi is much more soft and use yielding more deeply. However, I don't see there are any similarities. For being a Taiji practitioner, I wouldn't practice Wing Chun at all. Somehow, Bruce Lee gave up Taiji for Wing Chun.

[Thrice Daily]

I disagree, and think a bit of time with Wing Chun, even just first form and you will see a lot more in your Tai Chi, in terms of its martial possibilities a lot of it will be pretty clear. 
 

I really enjoy shifting focus to Wing Chun at times in Tai Chi and other training too.

 

Its possible to do movements and totally transform the training by dropping into a WC stance and stepping instead, keep elbows right in, stick more closely to centreline without over extending etc and using hua ma for turning . Especially applying it to my current MA flow drills it becomes dramatically different. 
 

Wing Chun is so easy compared to Tai Chi to get some good practical grounding fast, and more likely to get it right and be effective IMO. 
 

I’d love to read more about Taiji Quan for self defence on this thread. 
It would be cool to read more…

[Samoobramba]

10 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

What are the main differences and similarities in your opinion?

Can't say exactly, but IMHO the original Tai Chi and Wing Chung principes were the same! I got that info also from some different sources, so it has to be that.

Both methods are base on use relaxation. I'm not an Wing Chung expert but IMHO i'm correct. Also both methods use single leg blance. Wing Chun seems lot this principle, as did many Tai Chi schools. In both methods the structure power is very important. And last but not least bout methods usage is based on sensitivity.

But depends how an indivudual interpret the principles and use them.

[Samoobramba]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

You had made me to wonder about that. I do agree that Tai Chi is much more soft and use yielding more deeply. However, I don't see there are any similarities. For being a Taiji practitioner, I wouldn't practice Wing Chun at all. Somehow, Bruce Lee gave up Taiji for Wing Chun.

Whach my previous response to Thrice Daily.

Yes, Tai Chi and Wing Chung are two different styles with different techniques and forms. But IMHO their original principles were very similar. And Bruce Lee didn't know what the real Tai Chi is about. ;-)

[Samoobramba]

1 hour ago, Thrice Daily said:

I disagree, and think a bit of time with Wing Chun, even just first form and you will see a lot more in your Tai Chi, in terms of its martial possibilities a lot of it will be pretty clear. 
 

I really enjoy shifting focus to Wing Chun at times in Tai Chi and other training too.

 

Its possible to do movements and totally transform the training by dropping into a WC stance and stepping instead, keep elbows right in, stick more closely to centreline without over extending etc and using hua ma for turning . Especially applying it to my current MA flow drills it becomes dramatically different. 
 

Wing Chun is so easy compared to Tai Chi to get some good practical grounding fast, and more likely to get it right and be effective IMO. 
 

I’d love to read more about Taiji Quan for self defence on this thread. 
It would be cool to read more…

The real Tai Chi is not the populat Tai Chi today! The real Tai Chi use all the principles from the Tai Chi classics without exceptions.

I trained with many Wing Chun people. They use to much their structure and make them slow and limit their use of sensitivity. Soon they realize that must become mer soft and improvise more and forget their memorized Wing Chun techniques. Today Tai Chi is mainly BS, so and averyge Wing Chun person will beat an average Tai Chi person.

[ChiDragon]

14 minutes ago, Samoobramba said:

Today Tai Chi is mainly BS,

Taiji practice today is mainly for health other than fighting. However, please don't let a non average Taiji guy perform Fajin on your heart.

 

Edited November 5 by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

Taiji means the state were Yinyang are about to differentiate but not yet, so if the practice cannot demonstrate a clear integration of opposites, there would be no Taiji in it, making it something else with a different purpose than the integration of opposites into a dynamic state of balance.

 

Calling this something else "Taijiquan for such and such" is ok, perfectly fine, but from the above point of view it would remain a name whithout content if it fails to demonstrate the core theory of Taiji belonging to the wider subject of a "science of peace".

 

According to the Taiji theory logic, "taijiquan for self-defense" makes no sense because where there is really a Taiji there are no opponents, if there is an opponent that means Taiji already differentiated into Yin and Yang and for some reasons one attacks the other, but yes martial arts can teach how to recognize and avoid dangerous situations and how to improve our self-control abilities to make better decisions in the struggle to maintain this dynamic state of balance, if that's what we are looking for of course. 

 

PS: just a point of view 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6 by DynamicEquilibrium

[doc benway]

On 10/31/2024 at 8:03 AM, Thrice Daily said:

Blessings to you, Thankyou for your response Doc.

 

Chen Jin Pao Looks like a gooden, just watching him now here. Lucky to have this rare bit on YouTube by the looks of things. Scarce footage.

 

I’ll certainly revisit this and look for the book. Thanks again…

 

Here is a link to the book in English.

I have a copy of the English book (which is softcover by the way, not sure why they list is as hardcover in the description).

I also have a copy in Mandarin which is in hardback. 

Thank you very much for the link to the video of Chen Jin Pao doing Master Chen's taiji form.

I've never come across that before! If you ever come across any others, please share.

I would love to see him demonstrating xingyi and bagua. 

Much appreciated!

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Taiji means the state were Yinyang are about to differentiate but not yet, so if the practice cannot demonstrate a clear integration of opposites, there would be no Taiji in it, making it something else with a different purpose than the integration of opposites into a dynamic state of balance.

 

Calling this something else "Taijiquan for such and such" is ok, perfectly fine, but from the above point of view it would remain a name whithout content if it fails to demonstrate the core theory of Taiji belonging to the wider subject of a "science of peace".

 

According to the Taiji theory logic, "taijiquan for self-defense" makes no sense because where there is really a Taiji there are no opponents, if there is an opponent that means Taiji already differentiated into Yin and Yang and for some reasons one attacks the other, but yes martial arts can teach how to recognize and avoid dangerous situations and how to improve our self-control abilities to make better decisions in the struggle to maintain this dynamic state of balance, if that's what we are looking for of course. 

 

PS: just a point of view 

 

I appreciate you sharing your perspective on this and I acknowledge and understand your points.

I'll offer a different perspective.

Taiji as a Daoist concept and description of the balance of opposites is simply that, a description of a principle in operation in our day to day reality.

Taijiquan is an attempt to adapt this principle to practical martial arts applications, and of course there is an additional benefit to health and wellness. It is effective at a practical level and makes perfect sense once we have some instruction and have developed some basic skills. Taijiquan is not taiji theory but a practical training method that takes advantage of the theory. For example, my opponent attacks with force, I yield. My opponent yields and I destroy their base. 

It is not unusual to conflate ourselves as practitioners with conceptual principles and theory.

I see this frequently in discussions of spirituality, particularly in traditions like zen and dzogchen.

Practitioners are people making use of theory and principles in order to optimize outcomes but theory is simply that, a way our thought process labels and categorizes trends and patterns in our realm of experience, nothing more. 

FWIW, I thought that worth sharing.