Help with Zi Fa Gong

[Sahaja]

2 hours ago, Lukks said:

@-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- @Cobie @Neirong are yall saying that Damo is not a reliable source?

 

I just want to know your opinion about him, I've seen only a few people saying that he is not that good, I'm curious, can you elaborate more?

 

Once I saw a guy who claims that he(Damo) is not that advanced as a practitioner, he only got to a certain level in his training and then started teaching others.

I think a better question to ask is what does he teach and what can I learn from it. If you ask people’s opinion about him that have not trained with him I’m  not sure how useful their opinions  will be to you. He has quite a bit free online material on YouTube. Suggest you try it and see for yourself, use your own judgement.  

[Lukks]

12 minutes ago, Sahaja said:

I think a better question to ask is what does he teach and what can I learn from it. If you ask people’s opinion about him that have not trained with him I’m  not sure how useful their opinions  will be to you. He has quite a bit free online material on YouTube. Suggest you try it and see for yourself, use your own judgement.  

I actually think he is a great source of knowledge, but they don't seem to like his teachings, that's why I asked, just curious to understand why

[Master Logray]

Zi Fa Gong is a system designed to induce spontaneous phenomenons.    During practising internal arts, it is common to have all sorts of spontaneous sensation or even involuntary movements automatically.  So Zi Fa Gong doesn't apply here.

 

@tianzhang is standing up to 2 hours, in addition to his normally quite physical trainings.   I wonder if he is over his limits.  During the quiet standing, all sensations are amplified many times.   This coupled with overused, stiffed muscles, would create all sorts of issues. 

 

Xingyiquan (or is it actually YiQuan?), the same post mentioned 2 different systems?   Xing Yi is already one of the most ZZ intensive or famous martial arts system with varied forms.   It is said the founders could achieve some Neidan level with Xing Yi alone.   So it is not advisable to train in other ZZ styles including common standing stance.  

 

I would suggest limit ZZ to within the Ying Yi System and reduce the time too.   If there are to be any problems that the teacher cannot solve - look for another Xing Yi teacher.

[Miffymog]

There are a lot of positive things about Damo's teaching, but I'm afraid his energy body is really messed up, so be careful when learning from him or receiving energy transmissions.

[Sahaja]

12 hours ago, Lukks said:

I actually think he is a great source of knowledge, but they don't seem to like his teachings, that's why I asked, just curious to understand why

You know there is a function where you can look at all the comments a person has written on Dao Bums. It should give you a pretty good insight into what each person likes and doesn’t like. It’s a pretty strong accountability for our comments.  It’s also interesting to see how our views evolve over time, particularly those who’ve been here a long time. It’s a powerful tool but I think like with all powerful tools discretion is advised in its use, particularly if one is driven by the ego to win arguments. 

[Master Logray]

6 hours ago, Miffymog said:

There are a lot of positive things about Damo's teaching, but I'm afraid his energy body is really messed up, so be careful when learning from him or receiving energy transmissions.

 

 

How do you assess energy on a screen?   I just think he ages a lot compared with 5 years ago, put on a lot of weight and is quite sluggish in movements nowadays.

[Sahaja]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Zi Fa Gong is a system designed to induce spontaneous phenomenons.    During practising internal arts, it is common to have all sorts of spontaneous sensation or even involuntary movements automatically.  So Zi Fa Gong doesn't apply here.

 

@tianzhang is standing up to 2 hours, in addition to his normally quite physical trainings.   I wonder if he is over his limits.  During the quiet standing, all sensations are amplified many times.   This coupled with overused, stiffed muscles, would create all sorts of issues. 

 

Xingyiquan (or is it actually YiQuan?), the same post mentioned 2 different systems?   Xing Yi is already one of the most ZZ intensive or famous martial arts system with varied forms.   It is said the founders could achieve some Neidan level with Xing Yi alone.   So it is not advisable to train in other ZZ styles including common standing stance.  

 

I would suggest limit ZZ to within the Ying Yi System and reduce the time too.   If there are to be any problems that the teacher cannot solve - look for another Xing Yi teacher.

It’s interesting to see different perspectives on the use of the term zi fa gong. My own usage would be it is a natural byproduct of energetic practice that covers a huge range of physical outcomes from slight undulations and contractions of flesh to yelling, speaking gibberish, prostrating and doing all manner of interesting “dances” that are not done consciously.  I would term the practices that target producing it as a goal (rather than a by product) as spontaneous chi gongs such as Jenny’s yi gong practice.  Further complicating the picture is that there are some qi gong exercises that  have natural outcomes that if came up in different practices could  be called zi fa gong (example a hunyuan chi gong that targets the belt channel gives an outcome that if shows up as a by product in a different practice might be termed zi fa gong). One could even argue that the various jins in internal martial arts - internal stretch and movement from release in tai chi - is not that dissimilar from tugging and contorting of flesh that can arise as a by product of chi gong when Lao gong is open and the hands pass over parts of the torso (or even just open and close). 

[Miffymog]

13 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

 

How do you assess energy on a screen?   I just think he ages a lot compared with 5 years ago, put on a lot of weight and is quite sluggish in movements nowadays.

 

I have the ability to do this from a video when I'm very drunk

 

This is the easiest one I found to do it on, I think it's because he's in a relatively confined area.

 

Rather than being bright and round, or very grounding, externally, his is more like a firework display, and I'm afraid not in a good way.

 

A possible explanation is over practicing too many different systems, but I don't know this.

 

He does carry a lot of energy, but rather than having one strong energetic flow, internally, his is more like a janggled up mess of pipes, which are sprouting leaks everywhere.

 

Normally, when my body adopts a superficial representation of the energy body of the person I'm watching, it is a smooth, fast and pleasant transition.

 

This is not the case with Damo. Initially, my own energy body went into mild convulsions as it tried to simulate his, so I gave up.

 

But on one occasion I decided to 'sit through it'. After a couple of minutes of convulsions, my energy body settled into a meta-stable state that was representative of his.

 

I knew it was, because I had previously signed up to his school and watched a load of his instructional videos and learnt the specific 'flavour' of his energy.

 

I want to add that his energy is friendly, healing and sexually very well balanced.

 

However, the internal flow of his energy is very, very, very higgledy piggledy, prolonged practice from him could risk the practioner developing the same energy body.

 

It might not be a problem, as you have to put a massive commitment in to change your energy body, and he has practiced a number of different systems, so if you just do what he teaches, you may avoid this.

 

However, just be aware of the fact that the state of his energy body is really, really something you would not want to have.

 

 

(sorry to talk negatively about you Damo in this way)

 

 

 

 

 

[Lukks]

2 hours ago, Sahaja said:

You know there is a function where you can look at all the comments a person has written on Dao Bums. It should give you a pretty good insight into what each person likes and doesn’t like. It’s a pretty strong accountability for our comments.  It’s also interesting to see how our views evolve over time, particularly those who’ve been here a long time. It’s a powerful tool but I think like with all powerful tools discretion is advised in its use, particularly if one is driven by the ego to win arguments. 

 

Yes but it's kinda hard to find such specific things, if I had a lot of free time I would do it but at the moment I can't waste my time in this way haha

 

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

 

How do you assess energy on a screen?   I just think he ages a lot compared with 5 years ago, put on a lot of weight and is quite sluggish in movements nowadays.

 

I remember that @awaken could do this too, she said she was a very skilled clairvoyant. Unfortunately she is not in this forum anymore.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

 

I have the ability to do this from a video when I'm very drunk

 

This is the easiest one I found to do it on, I think it's because he's in a relatively confined area.

 

Rather than being bright and round, or very grounding, externally, his is more like a firework display, and I'm afraid not in a good way.

 

A possible explanation is over practicing too many different systems, but I don't know this.

 

He does carry a lot of energy, but rather than having one strong energetic flow, internally, his is more like a janggled up mess of pipes, which are sprouting leaks everywhere.

 

Normally, when my body adopts a superficial representation of the energy body of the person I'm watching, it is a smooth, fast and pleasant transition.

 

This is not the case with Damo. Initially, my own energy body went into mild convulsions as it tried to simulate his, so I gave up.

 

But on one occasion I decided to 'sit through it'. After a couple of minutes of convulsions, my energy body settled into a meta-stable state that was representative of his.

 

I knew it was, because I had previously signed up to his school and watched a load of his instructional videos and learnt the specific 'flavour' of his energy.

 

I want to add that his energy is friendly, healing and sexually very well balanced.

 

However, the internal flow of his energy is very, very, very higgledy piggledy, prolonged practice from him could risk the practioner developing the same energy body.

 

It might not be a problem, as you have to put a massive commitment in to change your energy body, and he has practiced a number of different systems, so if you just do what he teaches, you may avoid this.

 

However, just be aware of the fact that the state of his energy body is really, really something you would not want to have.

 

 

(sorry to talk negatively about you Damo in this way)

 

 

Wow this is very interesting, thanks for sharing 

[Sahaja]

On 10/29/2024 at 9:10 PM, tianzhang said:

Hi so a quick background on me, I have been practicing Baguazhang and Xingyiquan for 1.5 years about now. About 1 year in I started focusing on Zhan Zhuang since I noticed I was lacking the power my teacher had, because he only focused on mostly forms and applications.

I started out doing 30 minutes of standing in 8 different postures via my Yiquan teacher and then eventually progressed to 1 hour in 1 posture which then progressed to 2 hours in the standing posture. I, then started experiencing Zi Fa Gong the problem is since then it's been an ongoing issue and seems to be evolving too different states it helps my kung fu and does help me become healthier. However I feel like there's a road block in my body, another bit of background information about me is that I have pelvic floor syndrome a disease where my pelvic floor accidentally locked itself up and won't release.

Whenever I stand now and even outside of standing, I can initiate the spontaneous movement by opening something in the back of my nostrils ( it feels like the holes that open up inside your mouth to allow air to come in. My spine would physically move and I would feel a wave traveling down my spine and into my feet.

This wave if allowed to travel would loosen my body and muscles, I also noticed if I did anything wrong in my martial arts form or circle walking practice I noticed it would create more severe blockages than it would possibly in a regular person. I would have to fix it via zhan zhuang.

I also noticed that my shoulders are one of the area this wave is trying to release as it's chronically tight due to me having crowded teeth and my tongue being unable to relax fully to support my head.

My questions are :

A.) Does anyone have any idea of what's going on inside my body? Is the Qi trapped due to my structural annomalies?

B.) Is this due to my pelvic floor syndrome or my jaw structure?
 

C.) If it's due to my jaw structure in some way would I need to fix this via surgery to continue? Thank you.

PS : I have also went to see a Chinese Medical Doctor who specialized in Qi healing and he said that there was a nerve block in my pelvic area which is likely causing the spontaneous movements but his advice to focus on the dantian while standing just worsened the issue.

I am not a TCM nor Western doctor so please take my suggestions accordingly.

However I do have experience with zi fa gong, with ba Gua circle walking and static standing practice including Zhang Zhuang. Xing yi as well. 

From your description you mentioned two static  energy building/gathering practices (Zhang Zhuang and Ding shi - static palm circle walking).but I didn’t pick up anything that I would describe as qi mobilization exercises. While zi fa gong can arise in ba gua (particularly with  yin yang palm in ding shi practice which I don’t think you mentioned doing) I think it is much more quickly arising and more often associated with static standing practices. However once a pattern is created in standing, other practices can pick up a similar or related pattern as the body learns  
You also mentioned you did the standing postures for long enough to generate/gather a lot of qi (2 hours will definitely get it happening). 

Building qi without mobilizing and without sinking it to the lower Dan tian, can result in stagnation. Particularly if your Dan tian has not re-formed yet and isn’t developed enough to store yang qi. Also if it was really 2 hours with your arms in only one position out in front of your chest as opposed to some time down by lower body, you’ve given it a target for where the stagnation will likely arise. Many people come to the practice with tension behind tian tui (point between sternum and throat in the chest) that they have to learn to release (associated with ren channel and the vagus nerve). If this isn’t released (‘chest sunk”) before long Zhang Zhuang stands with arms up in front of the chest it could create quite a stagnation. 

Qi mobilization exercises are those movements that move the qi usually from the torso out to the limbs as forms of Jin. Can be a qi gong, tai chi or in bagua/Xing yi.  Key is you are moving the qi as often as you build it usually  with some opening and closing (filling/emptying )  in the body. Ideally you should be balancing these qi building/gathering exercises with qi mobilization exercises so your development is balanced. 

if you are experiencing serious shaking or tremors outside of practice that you can’t stop that are affecting your outside life, this would indicate a qi deviation (which from your description sounds related to stagnation) that should be addressed medically and likely would mean you should stop all internal practices for a period of time to allow your body and mind to reset as you likely developed a pattern that could be exacerbated by any internal practice. 

 

Again I’m no doctor, just a concerned bystander. Hope you find this helpful and find some release from your challenges. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, Miffymog said:

 

I have the ability to do this from a video when I'm very drunk

 

This is the easiest one I found to do it on, I think it's because he's in a relatively confined area.

 

Rather than being bright and round, or very grounding, externally, his is more like a firework display, and I'm afraid not in a good way.

 

A possible explanation is over practicing too many different systems, but I don't know this.

 

He does carry a lot of energy, but rather than having one strong energetic flow, internally, his is more like a janggled up mess of pipes, which are sprouting leaks everywhere.

 

Normally, when my body adopts a superficial representation of the energy body of the person I'm watching, it is a smooth, fast and pleasant transition.

 

This is not the case with Damo. Initially, my own energy body went into mild convulsions as it tried to simulate his, so I gave up.

 

But on one occasion I decided to 'sit through it'. After a couple of minutes of convulsions, my energy body settled into a meta-stable state that was representative of his.

 

I knew it was, because I had previously signed up to his school and watched a load of his instructional videos and learnt the specific 'flavour' of his energy.

 

I want to add that his energy is friendly, healing and sexually very well balanced.

 

However, the internal flow of his energy is very, very, very higgledy piggledy, prolonged practice from him could risk the practioner developing the same energy body.

 

It might not be a problem, as you have to put a massive commitment in to change your energy body, and he has practiced a number of different systems, so if you just do what he teaches, you may avoid this.

 

However, just be aware of the fact that the state of his energy body is really, really something you would not want to have.

 

 

(sorry to talk negatively about you Damo in this way)

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is one of the most interesting posts I’ve read on TDB. I’m curious to see what you see in other people, maybe can do it in another thread!

[silent thunder]

At this point on the path, my local awareness no longer processes that people's mentation and imagery/interpretations of what they perceive in the world and in other people around them is what is occuring carte blanche.  It is a reflection of their own state of mind.

 

What any given individual is experiencing is how the perceptive process is interpreted for him/her and further in that moment, and which words and imagery they select to share their interpreted experience is personal and not definitive or objective, in my experience.

 

Give them a few months or years and the same might be processed differently, even to them; let alone anyone else.

 

As always, this one says: take what is offered and run it through your own system and see what arises within your own local awareness.

Edited November 3 by silent thunder
phrasing for clarity

[Shadow_self]

On 30/10/2024 at 4:10 AM, tianzhang said:

Hi so a quick background on me, I have been practicing Baguazhang and Xingyiquan for 1.5 years about now. About 1 year in I started focusing on Zhan Zhuang since I noticed I was lacking the power my teacher had, because he only focused on mostly forms and applications.

I started out doing 30 minutes of standing in 8 different postures via my Yiquan teacher and then eventually progressed to 1 hour in 1 posture which then progressed to 2 hours in the standing posture. I, then started experiencing Zi Fa Gong the problem is since then it's been an ongoing issue and seems to be evolving too different states it helps my kung fu and does help me become healthier. However I feel like there's a road block in my body, another bit of background information about me is that I have pelvic floor syndrome a disease where my pelvic floor accidentally locked itself up and won't release.

Whenever I stand now and even outside of standing, I can initiate the spontaneous movement by opening something in the back of my nostrils ( it feels like the holes that open up inside your mouth to allow air to come in. My spine would physically move and I would feel a wave traveling down my spine and into my feet.

This wave if allowed to travel would loosen my body and muscles, I also noticed if I did anything wrong in my martial arts form or circle walking practice I noticed it would create more severe blockages than it would possibly in a regular person. I would have to fix it via zhan zhuang.

I also noticed that my shoulders are one of the area this wave is trying to release as it's chronically tight due to me having crowded teeth and my tongue being unable to relax fully to support my head.

My questions are :

A.) Does anyone have any idea of what's going on inside my body? Is the Qi trapped due to my structural annomalies?

B.) Is this due to my pelvic floor syndrome or my jaw structure?
 

C.) If it's due to my jaw structure in some way would I need to fix this via surgery to continue? Thank you.

PS : I have also went to see a Chinese Medical Doctor who specialized in Qi healing and he said that there was a nerve block in my pelvic area which is likely causing the spontaneous movements but his advice to focus on the dantian while standing just worsened the issue.

 

Im  tied up at the moment but wanted to take a moment to comment on this because honestly, the amount of  confused information posted here is very troubling,

 

For a start,  the zifagong is  just energy moving and hitting the blockages. The combination of circle walking  and standing practice would initiate this. Bagua/ZZ moves qi when done correctly. 

 

Theres a more esoteric component to it also that im not going to get into. But zifagong is a process any authentic system should have you work through, its the body working its way through the blockages

 

The alternative to this is pills and transmissions, but the problem with that is you develop little internal skill, instead you just end up depending on teachers  and substances. Common enough, but not really a path one wants to walk

 

Conclusion - Stop worrying about it, and stop giving it mental fuel. You are actually making it worse  by doing this

 

Blockages occur at various levels (physical, energetic, mental) etc and usually they interlink. For example, a back injury would cause the corresponding tissues, nerves, fascia and capillaries/veins/arteries etc to become tighter and bundle up, creating stagnation, which translates up into the energy body, and then penetrates the mental sphere.

 

Likewise the reverse is also true (im sure you've felt your chest bundle up when anxious, or noticed the postural difference of a depressed person). Over time, this mental pattern becomes "imprinted" onto the physical body via that same energetic transfer outlined above, and distorts the physical structure of it

 

The pelvic floor issues are usually related to the kidney system (and jing)/Also, your post is indicative of someone that seems to be in a very anxious state.

 

You would do well to relax, open your body, eat some red meat and stewed, dark foods and take it easy on the mental activity

 

Something that would be useful for you to do is spend more time opening and stretching your body, create space and then worry about ZZ and bagua later 

 

Take a bit of time off and just focus on creating space, especially in the kua/spine and working through the physical body only with opening and stretching (the right way)

 

If your teacher has proper internals, they should have shown you how already, but ask them again if not. 

 

Get some tui na and acupuncutre also, that will futher aid you in fixing the issue (and stop worrying about your jaw, its fine) 

 

Hopefully this helps

 

17 hours ago, Lukks said:

I actually think he is a great source of knowledge, but they don't seem to like his teachings, that's why I asked, just curious to understand why

 

@Sahajaalready pointed this out but it bears repeating.

 

If you're going to ask questions about the practices, better to ask one whos spent a few years working with the material, rather than external observers, dabblers etc

 

Ive had some of the developments you read about in the classics, and ive had a few of them confirmed by others with no association to Damo or in some cases, even no association to the Longmen Pai at all. 

 

Ive also had some strange things arise that definately defy all manner of materialism, and have extended to other people as well, which of course means they too have a direct experience of said developments, rather than just me.

 

These arent up for discussion im afraid, but ive no reason to lie about this

 

Whilst those practice have, as of late been an adjunct for me, there is no denying the potency of it. So, as regards the efficacy of what is taught, thats simply not debatable. 

 

Admittedly, I'm pretty much at at the end of my run with it now,  and soon moving on to other things, so ive no incentive or association to promote the school, but the bashing is, as usual, strong here, so I felt a bit of informed honesty based on actual experience is needed

 

Thats all im going to say on the topic,  so take from it what you will

 

PS (To anyone awaiting a PM, I will be back at  a later date, im just tied up right now, and only wanted to comment here as it relates to health)

 

Best wishes

Edited November 1 by Shadow_self

[Neirong]

19 hours ago, Lukks said:

is not a reliable source?

 

The masses love to create a glorified Image of a Guru and mythically imbue it with all kinds of enigmatic, mystical, and supernatural qualities, then kowtow to and revere it. It becomes comical at times. You have many threads on this board related to anything that Damo teaches or ever talked about, and they get overrun by his followers praising the great teacher.

 

The thing is, I know plenty of people around me who are Damo's age or older, who look much better than him, have more energy/vitality than him, and have better intellectual and physical body development than him.

 

But they never did: - TCM, Bagua, Martial Arts, Qigong, Daoism, Internal Alchemy, or anything else related to what this person teaches or practices. They never taught and never pretended to be someone special.

 

So, the question is, why even bother?

 

17 hours ago, Sahaja said:

I think a better question to ask is what does he teach and what can I learn from it.

 

It is unlikely that you will gain more from a system in 5+ years than a person who has taught it for 25+ years. We have an observable living end result of this method. It does not seem to be anything good. It is a clear bottleneck and a dead end. What you can get, however, is one of the many pathogenic qualities the teacher has.

 

Learning is not always a good thing, you can learn bad things, and copy mistakes of your teachers. Not all food is good, not all knowledge and information is beneficial.

 

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

I just think he ages a lot compared with 5 years ago, put on a lot of weight and is quite sluggish in movements nowadays.

 

This is what people see without utilising ESP abilities. You ask anyone who is not related to this school/system and not brainwashed by the cult they usually give out similar statements.

 

20 hours ago, Lukks said:

I just want to know your opinion about him, I've seen only a few people saying that he is not that good, I'm curious, can you elaborate more?

 

To be clear I don't have anything personal against him. It is not my concern what people are doing with their lives.

In general views, I am pro-cultivation and I am not supportive of degradation. But I also believe in a freedom of choice, and if people chose degradation and delusion, so be it.

[Sahaja]

23 hours ago, Miffymog said:

 

I have the ability to do this from a video when I'm very drunk

 

This is the easiest one I found to do it on, I think it's because he's in a relatively confined area.

 

Rather than being bright and round, or very grounding, externally, his is more like a firework display, and I'm afraid not in a good way.

 

A possible explanation is over practicing too many different systems, but I don't know this.

 

He does carry a lot of energy, but rather than having one strong energetic flow, internally, his is more like a janggled up mess of pipes, which are sprouting leaks everywhere.

 

Normally, when my body adopts a superficial representation of the energy body of the person I'm watching, it is a smooth, fast and pleasant transition.

 

This is not the case with Damo. Initially, my own energy body went into mild convulsions as it tried to simulate his, so I gave up.

 

But on one occasion I decided to 'sit through it'. After a couple of minutes of convulsions, my energy body settled into a meta-stable state that was representative of his.

 

I knew it was, because I had previously signed up to his school and watched a load of his instructional videos and learnt the specific 'flavour' of his energy.

 

I want to add that his energy is friendly, healing and sexually very well balanced.

 

However, the internal flow of his energy is very, very, very higgledy piggledy, prolonged practice from him could risk the practioner developing the same energy body.

 

It might not be a problem, as you have to put a massive commitment in to change your energy body, and he has practiced a number of different systems, so if you just do what he teaches, you may avoid this.

 

However, just be aware of the fact that the state of his energy body is really, really something you would not want to have.

 

 

(sorry to talk negatively about you Damo in this way)

 

 

 

 

 

Curious of what your read is of GM Doo Wai in the earlier video demonstrating healing qi gong.

[doc benway]

On 10/30/2024 at 12:10 AM, tianzhang said:

Hi so a quick background on me, I have been practicing Baguazhang and Xingyiquan for 1.5 years about now. About 1 year in I started focusing on Zhan Zhuang since I noticed I was lacking the power my teacher had, because he only focused on mostly forms and applications.

I started out doing 30 minutes of standing in 8 different postures via my Yiquan teacher and then eventually progressed to 1 hour in 1 posture which then progressed to 2 hours in the standing posture. I, then started experiencing Zi Fa Gong the problem is since then it's been an ongoing issue and seems to be evolving too different states it helps my kung fu and does help me become healthier. However I feel like there's a road block in my body, another bit of background information about me is that I have pelvic floor syndrome a disease where my pelvic floor accidentally locked itself up and won't release.

Whenever I stand now and even outside of standing, I can initiate the spontaneous movement by opening something in the back of my nostrils ( it feels like the holes that open up inside your mouth to allow air to come in. My spine would physically move and I would feel a wave traveling down my spine and into my feet.

This wave if allowed to travel would loosen my body and muscles, I also noticed if I did anything wrong in my martial arts form or circle walking practice I noticed it would create more severe blockages than it would possibly in a regular person. I would have to fix it via zhan zhuang.

I also noticed that my shoulders are one of the area this wave is trying to release as it's chronically tight due to me having crowded teeth and my tongue being unable to relax fully to support my head.

My questions are :

A.) Does anyone have any idea of what's going on inside my body? Is the Qi trapped due to my structural annomalies?

B.) Is this due to my pelvic floor syndrome or my jaw structure?
 

C.) If it's due to my jaw structure in some way would I need to fix this via surgery to continue? Thank you.

PS : I have also went to see a Chinese Medical Doctor who specialized in Qi healing and he said that there was a nerve block in my pelvic area which is likely causing the spontaneous movements but his advice to focus on the dantian while standing just worsened the issue.

 

I also practice xingyi quan, bagua zhang, and zhan zhuang, but not yiquan. If you stand for long periods of time (over an hour, IMO, qualifies for a long period of time), it is normal and healthy to experience spontaneous movement. The wave you are feeling is also completely normal and expected. I have a friend who believes the wave experience is related, at least in part, to the wave effect within the cerebrospinal fluid that bathes our brain and spinal cord. I'm not completely sure of the explanation and don't generally concern myself with explanations but it is real and normal and not in any way pathological.

 

Spontaneous movements certainly can be an indication of various blockages and obstacles within the body, energy, and mind which are naturally attempting to unravel, release, and restore balance. We all live with blockages and obstacles at any given moment, it is inevitable. My personal approach to this is NOT to analyze and explain and not to try to identify specific sources or locations within the body, energy, or mind. It's not necessarily wrong to do this but I've not found it helpful. My recommendation is to simply allow the practice to express what needs to be expressed in its own way and in its own time. Trust in the practice and focus on the process more than the outcome.

 

One caution I have is not to push yourself too hard when it comes to standing and circle walking, or training in general. There is too much, not enough, and just the right amount of training and this can vary over time or even day to day depending on your condition and other factors. The right balance is something you need to discover for yourself through patience and commitment to the practice. It comes in part from listening carefully to the body. Of course, a qualified teacher can be indispensable.

 

IMO 2 hours is a VERY long period of time to stand, especially if you've only been training for a year and a half. That said, I do not practice yiquan. My neijia teacher always suggested 30 minutes per side in santishi and one hour of continuous circle walking to be plenty in a practice session for any level of practitioner. Of course there are stories of the masters doing far more but they are the masters and developed these skills over decades of dedicated practice. As with all things Daoist, balance is the key. Too much of a good thing can sometimes be toxic and counter-productive. 

 

I'm put in mind of a parable, can't think of the source at the moment:

Student - how long before I reach mastery if I practice with great commitment and intensity?

Master - 10 years

S - what if I practice twice as hard and long?

M - 20 years

S - what if I practice 10 times harder and longer?

M - 50 years!

S - I don't understand, why is it the harder I work, the longer it will take?!

M - If you always have one eye on the prize, how can you stay focused on the path?

(... or something like that)

 

Sometimes we can practice so intensely and dedicate so much time and effort that we damage our body, energy, and mind. We can burn ourselves out or injure ourselves. We can neglect other aspects of our lives that are equally important in the long run. We need to balance training with play and we need to prioritize things like nutrition, hydration, restful sleep, rewarding occupation, and warm relationships with those we care for. 

 

Sorry for the rant, I hope it's worth something...

 

[Miffymog]

18 hours ago, Sahaja said:

Curious of what your read is of GM Doo Wai in the earlier video demonstrating healing qi gong.

 

I can only read the energy body of someone who has a lot of energy flowing through them. These are the spiritual masters who I tested, and the results were repeatable.

 

Master Sheng-yen -whose energy body was bright and round

Thich Nhat Hanh – again, a bright round energy body

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche – very grounding

Bishop Kallistos Ware – very grounding.

 

But it seems as though the Bak Fu Pai arts fall into a slightly different category. I could never read the energy body of Terry Dunn, despite his field being pretty much visible around his body during some of his FPCK videos.

 

I also had the same thing with Doo Wai in a number of videos where he was talking to camera, how could I not sense it if he’s such a powerful master? I then took out one of his Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix videos and tested that, and while he was in mid meditation, I found that he did indeed have an awful lot of energy flowing through him

 

The nature of his energy field during the meditation was also different to others I’d sensed. During the meditation, his energy was more evenly spread out and fuzzy. But he did come across as having the level of energy of someone who had been trained in these arts from a very young age.

 

So the video you suggested, I would almost certainly have looked at, but I probably didn’t detect anything in that particular one

 

Also, as it took half a bottle of whiskey for me to get into a state where I could do it, I only did it for a few months and then gave up. I’d learnt all I needed to and haven’t done it for some time now.

 

 

[Sahaja]

5 hours ago, Miffymog said:

 

I can only read the energy body of someone who has a lot of energy flowing through them. These are the spiritual masters who I tested, and the results were repeatable.

 

Master Sheng-yen -whose energy body was bright and round

Thich Nhat Hanh – again, a bright round energy body

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche – very grounding

Bishop Kallistos Ware – very grounding.

 

But it seems as though the Bak Fu Pai arts fall into a slightly different category. I could never read the energy body of Terry Dunn, despite his field being pretty much visible around his body during some of his FPCK videos.

 

I also had the same thing with Doo Wai in a number of videos where he was talking to camera, how could I not sense it if he’s such a powerful master? I then took out one of his Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix videos and tested that, and while he was in mid meditation, I found that he did indeed have an awful lot of energy flowing through him

 

The nature of his energy field during the meditation was also different to others I’d sensed. During the meditation, his energy was more evenly spread out and fuzzy. But he did come across as having the level of energy of someone who had been trained in these arts from a very young age.

 

So the video you suggested, I would almost certainly have looked at, but I probably didn’t detect anything in that particular one

 

Also, as it took half a bottle of whiskey for me to get into a state where I could do it, I only did it for a few months and then gave up. I’d learnt all I needed to and haven’t done it for some time now.

 

 

 Very interesting. Thank you for broadening the spectrum of my request to give it perspective. Quite an eclectic grouping. 
 

 Hope your liver is Ok and I apologize if my request resulted in any harm to you. I wasn’t thinking clearly about consequences of asking you to drink…sorry for that.
 

In my understanding everyone has an energetic field that extends out from their body that is relatively thick very near their physical body generally resembling its shape that diffuses into a much less dense sphere further out.  There are cultivation practices that utilize this basic energy field. Not sure whether this field is what you are referring to (at a much amplified level) or whether it’s something wholly different. 
 

Probably good you don’t see everyone’s field as that would be distracting indeed and make life a little difficult!

 

thanks again for indulging my request. 
 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

8 hours ago, Miffymog said:

But it seems as though the Bak Fu Pai arts fall into a slightly different category. I could never read the energy body of Terry Dunn, despite his field being pretty much visible around his body during some of his FPCK videos.

 

I also had the same thing with Doo Wai in a number of videos where he was talking to camera, how could I not sense it if he’s such a powerful master? I then took out one of his Golden Lotus Flying Phoenix videos and tested that, and while he was in mid meditation, I found that he did indeed have an awful lot of energy flowing through him

 

The nature of his energy field during the meditation was also different to others I’d sensed. During the meditation, his energy was more evenly spread out and fuzzy. But he did come across as having the level of energy of someone who had been trained in these arts from a very young age.

This is very interesting as the qi from FPCK feels very different from other systems. 

[Miffymog]

19 hours ago, Sahaja said:

 Very interesting. Thank you for broadening the spectrum of my request to give it perspective. Quite an eclectic grouping. 
 

 Hope your liver is Ok and I apologize if my request resulted in any harm to you. I wasn’t thinking clearly about consequences of asking you to drink…sorry for that.
 

In my understanding everyone has an energetic field that extends out from their body that is relatively thick very near their physical body generally resembling its shape that diffuses into a much less dense sphere further out.  There are cultivation practices that utilize this basic energy field. Not sure whether this field is what you are referring to (at a much amplified level) or whether it’s something wholly different. 
 

Probably good you don’t see everyone’s field as that would be distracting indeed and make life a little difficult!

 

thanks again for indulging my request. 
 

 

 

No worries about my liver  I do allow myself one beer a week, but the hang overs are no longer worth having more now-a-days.

 

As for what I mean about the energy that I could sense, I've not really been very clear on that. So, here are some links to Sifu Terry Dunn refereing to the 'energy field' that can be picked up by a video which surrounds someone if they have a strong reserve of Flying Pheonix energy in them.

 

 

 

 

This is something that anyone can see, and somewhere in the FPCK thread, I'm sure another person said they could see surrouding Terry, but I could not find that particular post. It comes across as a mild fuzzy blur that surrounds his hands and arms and extends about 1 cm form the body. It could actually just be a problem with the camera equipement, but maybe it's his energy.

 

This type of energy I can't sense when I'm reading the energy body of someone, and I'll tie this into Pak Satrio's comment later.

 

The type of energy I can sense is that which you would feel if you were performing, say, a Tai Chi form. You feel the energy moving through the body, and if you are a powerful master who has a LOT of energy flowing through you, then after half a bottle of whiskey, if I watched you, I'd feel a tiny proprotion the same type and flow as well.

 

 

17 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

This is very interesting as the qi from FPCK feels very different from other systems. 

 

So, in answer to why I could only sense any energy in GM Doo Wai while he was mediating, but not while he was talking to camera,  unlike other spritual masters, I don't know. But one idea I've had is that it might have something to do with only igniting/activating the energy in FPCK, and I think most of the other Bak Fu Pai arts, after you've performed the breath sequence?

 

Whether that also ties in with not being able to feel then energy surrounding Sifu Terry Dunn or not, again I don't really know.

 

 

[Sahaja]

Thanks . In my journey I was exposed to many of this system’s practices through a different teacher.  I enjoyed practicing them.  Perhaps I will go back and revisit them someday. There are certainly a lot of practices in his system.  Interesting origin story to the practices as well. I have many notes just with all the different breath percentages.  A bit complicated breath and movement wise for me but they certainly had an energetic effect. However for me, many different practices have an energetic effect. Even relatively simple ones. 
 

thanks again for sharing. I’ve never had much ability relative to seeing energy or visual phenomena, I am a bit of a “brick” visually,  so I enjoy hearing your experiences. 

[Sahaja]

On 11/1/2024 at 6:58 AM, Master Logray said:

 

 

How do you assess energy on a screen?   I just think he ages a lot compared with 5 years ago, put on a lot of weight and is quite sluggish in movements nowadays.

There is a technical term for this for men in their 40s. It’s called having a “Dad body”. Not everyone gets this but I sure did when I hit my 40s!

 

however there maybe something else. Neigong that is based on the Yi Jin Jing principles (bones up/flesh down) opens you up - which means it  literally, physically opens you up - it moves the bones further apart and stresses the connective tissues and over time more tissue forms as a result of this stress widening your body while at the same time making it more dense filling in the empty spaces. This tissue also builds into a connective web throughout the entire body creating internal relationships that didn’t seem to be there before. . During the process there are  tremendous amounts of internal pressure created by the qi pushing you open expanding on the inside.  It is the polar opposite of subtle and has both physical and energetic consequences. Being wider and denser  may not be well aligned with current ideas of beauty,  but it does make one quite a bit stronger and more grounded, both of which are quite useful on the path. Being stronger and more grounded helps one survive being a Dad too!  

[Neirong]

56 minutes ago, Sahaja said:

however there maybe something else. Neigong that is based on the Yi Jin Jing principles (bones up/flesh down) opens you up - which means it  literally, physically opens you up - it moves the bones further apart and stresses the connective tissues and over time more tissue forms as a result of this stress widening your body while at the same time making it more dense filling in the empty spaces. This tissue also builds into a connective web throughout the entire body creating internal relationships that didn’t seem to be there before. . During the process there are  tremendous amounts of internal pressure created by the qi pushing you open expanding on the inside.  It is the polar opposite of subtle and has both physical and energetic consequences. Being wider and denser  may not be well aligned with current ideas of beauty,  but it does make one quite a bit stronger and more grounded, both of which are quite useful on the path. Being stronger and more grounded helps one survive being a Dad too!  

 

I once met a "Master" who claimed that excessive energy and spiritual power converts into body mass.

 

The more lies and nonsense you accept, the further away you are moving from the truth, from ability to cultivate, to open third eye, advance spirituality and anything of that sort.

 

1. The misguided students who when experiencing problems with their body, instead of seeking solution and change of lifestyle, believe those are signs of "progress" in
 

Quote

Yi Jin Jing principles (bones up/flesh down)

2. The Ancient Arts getting desecrated and defiled by trickery, lies and deception, made to pull wool over eyes. Professional swindlers with a tied-up tongue who will claim whatever imperfection and flaw found in them to be a sign of "spiritual development" and "internal attainments."

Edited November 5 by Neirong

[Shadow_self]

On 05/11/2024 at 3:38 PM, Neirong said:

 

I once met a "Master" who claimed that excessive energy and spiritual power converts into body mass.

 

Just some questions, about the master and meetings

 

#1  What corner of the cosmos were you travelling in your secret vehicle when you met this master.?

 

#2 How fast were the teleportations there and back? 

 

#3 Was it a human master? or one of those   creatures you met when "searching for  other planets"

 

 

 

 

[tianzhang]

Hi everyone, first off I wanted to thank everyone for your help! Secondly, I think I understand a bit more of what the issue is upon contemplation and training. I think there is  certain part of my nerves where the QI cannot seem to pass, so circle walking seems to send it back up, and so does Zhan zhuang where I get this spontaneous movements.

Do you think training martial arts can worsen this blockage or I am good to train just need to let the spontaneous movements clear through? Thank you!