Yi Jin Jing/ Tendon-Muscle Strengthening Exercises

[Thrice Daily]

23 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

All these fancy names are very impressive. It might be too much for one to digest.

If you don’t try Skull Shining (kapalbhati) breath retention or similar in qigong, or alternative nostril breathing (anulom vilom) 

 

you may want to read about them instead, and the benefits… 

 

it’s unwise trying to draw your own conclusions about them when they have been solidly practiced for specific purposes for millennia in India . I’ve tried both and the experience is valuable plus the results speak for themselves. 
 

In Yijinjing, today I may extra effort to make the breath as silent as possible. 
 

It’s remarkable how much deeper the physical reality of the practice gets with a little tweak like silent breathing, not even deeper, just silent.

[ChiDragon]

16 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

it’s unwise trying to draw your own conclusions about them when they have been solidly practiced for specific purposes for millennia in India . I’ve tried both and the experience is valuable plus the results speak for themselves. 
 

Thanks for the advice. People may claim a lot of things only for the believers. I only go with what the modern science dictates, unless otherwise I've found a discrepancy.

There are practices with good results but only superficial. It might be something in the background that was giving the good effect without one's notice. It has to be discover by the practitioner. What is real important is to know how the internal human system works for a better explanation.
 

Peace!

Edited November 3 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

13 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

today I may extra effort to make the breath as silent as possible. 

It is ok what you think is right. To me, if one can control the breathing in making a sound, it means the breathing is very strong. Thus one can regulate the breathing at will.

[Thrice Daily]

Just watching this. It’s not bad. I tried to sign up to have a look at the price, only there was a glitch on the sign up form. I quite like the guys energy and format.

 

 

It’s a nice bit of info in this video if you’re interested in Yijinjing:) 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

10 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

It is ok what you think is right. To me, if one can control the breathing in making a sound, it means the breathing is very strong. Thus one can regulate the breathing at will.

How do you prevent and avoid any autonomous nervous system disorders (走火入魔) to arise from your breathing practice ? 

 

[心神 ~]

1 hour ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

 

How do you prevent and avoid any autonomous nervous system disorders (走火入魔) to arise from your breathing practice ? 

 

 

I would like to know this as well. 

 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

How do you prevent and avoid any autonomous nervous system disorders (走火入魔) to arise from your breathing practice ? 

 

走火入魔 You can only hear that from fictional stories. The breathing doesn't affect your nervous system. Unless someone hit you on your spinal cord.

[DynamicEquilibrium]

12 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 The breathing doesn't affect your nervous system. Unless someone hit you on your spinal cord.

Do you mean that to regulate or to control breathing has no effects on the nervous system ? 

[ChiDragon]

10 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Do you mean that to regulate or to control breathing has no effects on the nervous system ? 

Yes, that is correct. Regulating the breath is how long to hold the breath. When to release it? How fast or slow you want to inhale or exhale? How deep do you want the breath to go down?

Edited November 4 by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

11 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, that is correct. Regulating the breath is how long to hold the breath. When to release it? How fast or slow you want to inhale or exhale? How deep do you want the breath to go down?

So from your point of view intentional modifications of the natural breathing patterns do not affect the nervous system in any ways? 

Sorry to insist, just want to make sure i got your answer right. 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

2 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

So from your point of view intentional modifications of the natural breathing patterns do not affect the nervous system in any ways? 

Sorry to insist, just want to make sure i got your answer right. 

 

 

No problem. Yes, that was exactly what I said.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

14 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

So from your point of view intentional modifications of the natural breathing patterns do not affect the nervous system in any ways? 

Sorry to insist, just want to make sure i got your answer right. 

 

 

A simple google search proves most of what he says is wrong:

 

https://www.webmd.com/balance/what-to-know-4-7-8-breathing

[DynamicEquilibrium]

20 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

No problem. Yes, that was exactly what I said.

By such logic, it would mean that reversely the nervous system do not affect the breathing system in any ways right ? 

 

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

I absolutely agree. In fact you can argue that everything affects the nervous system. I mean it’s always operational and regulating breath helps us switch over from sympathetic to parasympathetic , look at “the sympathetic sigh” as an example. 

So a more relaxed response comes next, in the nerves. No more need for flight or fight mode, relaxing breath suggests safety. There is always this two way feedback loop system in operation , I’m surprised you haven’t noticed ChiDragon, you must have surely, and you’ve just not assimilated it into you talking about it yet?

 

Relaxing breath is like opposite to ‘brace for impact’ like before a cold shower I’ll not do relax breath as it’s not time to relax, it’s time to fight (or flight ) , I’ll do at least a quick round of bellows breathing. It gets my sympathetic nervous system a signal to get ready for the shock of cold water. And works every time, it’s prepared, it’s way easier.

 

Coming out of stress, breathing works that way too no? Something stressful going on… take some deep breaths to Calm Down. Shucks. 

 

It’s very connected. I think what fascinates me most about breath though is something more subtle,  the differences you might notice In meditation with focusing on breaths sensation in different parts of the body over successive hours / days.

 

Focusing primarily on sensation of air entering nostrils vs focusing primarily on sensation in lower Dan Tien for example. Massively different experiences (if you know you know) and tangible differences in nervous system activations. 

 

So it’s not only breath that effects differences but the attention you rest on it, degree of intensity of focus, duration and location IMHO

 

I wonder if there are studies on this? 

[ChiDragon]

7 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

By such logic, it would mean that reversely the nervous system do not affect the breathing system in any ways right ? 

 

 

 

Yes, that is right!

Actually, breathing will make your nervous system more healthier and more sensitive. Your reaction will respond quicker and more flexible. It also helps to regulate your breathing better.

 

FYI I was arm wrestling with many people. I saw them holding the breath and the face turns red while I was regulating my breath and so relaxed.

Edited November 4 by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, that is right!

Actually, breathing will make your nervous system more healthier and more sensitive. Your reaction will respond quicker and more flexible. It also helps to regulate your breathing better.

So opposite to:

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

走火入魔 You can only hear that from fictional stories. The breathing doesn't affect your nervous system. Unless someone hit you on your spinal cord.

 

In my opinion, a scientific approach to learning, research and practice has to be rooted in the ability to constantly challenge one's own point of views, otherwise we would just be carving dogmas in the stone of our minds. 

 

[ChiDragon]

17 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

So opposite to:

 

In my opinion, a scientific approach to learning, research and practice has to be rooted in the ability to constantly challenge one's own point of views, otherwise we would just be carving dogmas in the stone of our minds. 

 

Yes, that is true but there is only one good final conclusion.

Edited November 4 by ChiDragon

[Thrice Daily]

For a martial artists perspective on Yijinjing you might want to check…

This article;

 

Martial Artists Perspective On Yijinjing

 

Its a nice read and has three parts to it. You can click links to the other 2 parts at top of page. This is an excerpt from page 3;

 

You can see that to practice the Yijin Jing correctly we first need to cultivate Qi. That’s why we work on sinking the Qi for a long time. Through different Qigong exercises (postures or breathing exercises) we will accumulate Qi, develop and form the Dan Tian, learn how to sink the Qi and cultivate it to an abundant level. Naturally, the exercises serve one purpose in the beginning, and a different purpose further down the line. Once Qi is sufficient, it will be sent to develop the Huang which then develops the muscles to get a tendon-quality.

 

Qi can not be forced or actively led into the Huang. Huang is literally everywhere in the body. Because of the complexity of the Huang system, which most likely involves a handful of other connective tissues, it is important that Qi mobilizes to move into the Huang of its own accord. That’s why it’s important to focus on the previous principles and ensure to follow them closely. Only when the muscles “hang” and you are finding a light stretch within deep relaxation, will you be able to create the right conditions for the Qi to enter the Huang. Naturally it is also essential for the Qi to build. There must be a sufficient amount of Qi in order for it to move into the Huang. This is what emphasizes the importance of the Yin side of training. It is very beneficial for the Yijin Jing practice to complete the small circulation meditation.

 

The medical Qigong classics usually mention “Huang” and “Gao” and divide them into 2 different kind of tissues. “Gao” literally means “fat” and refers to adipose tissue. This is the tissue that is used for the storage of fat. “Huang” is usually translated into “membranes” and also refers to superficial and deep fascia, the mesenterium, omentum and stroma which are tissues that attach the organs to the body wall and the stomach with other abdominal organs, as well as other supportive tissues. They cover the whole body with a layer immediately below the skin and consist of an inner layer that is wrapping and anchoring the organs (connecting them), the muscles and the bones. You can see that the Chinese were already very well aware of this interconnected web of tissues throughout the body. In relation to the Yijin Jing and the mechanism for body-development, it is safe to assume that all these tissues are meant by Huang. They are completely connected and can not be isolated. It is impossible to move any part of the body without affecting the Huang in the entire body. If you move your index finger there will ultimately be a response in the bottom of your foot, even if it’s ever so subtle. These fully interconnected connective tissues between the muscles, around the bones and in those “empty spaces” within the body are what ties up the whole body as one. The Classic of Categories says the Huang is in between the abdominal cavities and the muscle patterns (Li, muscle fibre) and they extend up and down in the crevices.

There is a particularly large amount of Huang in the abdominal cavity between the organs and the muscles. All of these layered tissues with different conductivity shape the real lower Dan Tian.

This is a pretty nice look in if you are thinking about approaching Yi Jinjing . I should pay more regard to the yin side of my practice now as the tendon changing I use is likely to be a Shaolin version , it’s dynamic with lots of twisting and bending, very Yang good tempo for warming up. 

Edited November 4 by Thrice Daily

[DynamicEquilibrium]

37 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, that is true but there is only one good final conclusion.

Agree. We both know that subjectivity will always blur our conclusions, so how to come to the final one ? 

 

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

FYI I was arm wrestling with many people. I saw them holding the breath and the face turns red while I was regulating my breath and so relaxed.

 Some branches of martial arts still have Yijinjing embbeded in their fundamentals, at one point tendons feels like red hot steel wires and the bone marrow like boiling congee, later everything melts and the body seems like being filled with lead, yet extremely light and nimble with a feeling of deep comfort and peace. In application a natural side effect of such fundamental practice was also no holding or hurry in the breath, but whithout any breathwork involved anywhere along the process. 

[Thrice Daily]

12 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Some branches of martial arts still have Yijinjing embbeded in their fundamentals, at one point tendons feels like red hot steel wires and the bone marrow like boiling congee, later everything melts and the body seems like being filled with lead, yet extremely light and nimble with a feeling of deep comfort and peace. In application a natural side effect of such fundamental practice was also no holding or hurry in the breath, but whithout any breathwork involved anywhere along the process

Totally resonate, brilliantly put…

[DynamicEquilibrium]

 

23 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Totally resonate

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/the-voices-of-sun-lutangs-teachers/

 

Part 1 of chapter 4 could be a good read. 

[Thrice Daily]

45 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Part 1 of chapter 4 could be a good read. 

🙏 

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

 Some branches of martial arts still have Yijinjing embbeded in their fundamentals, at one point tendons feels like red hot steel wires and the bone marrow like boiling congee, later everything melts and the body seems like being filled with lead,

Is this a quote from an ancient text? Isn't this a little over exaggerated. Your body would be burnt up at the boiling point of water. The boiling point of any metal is much higher than that the body will not and cannot withstand it.

Edited November 4 by ChiDragon

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Is this a quote from an ancient text? Isn't this a little over exaggerated. Your body would be burnt up at the boiling point of water. The boiling point of any metal is much higher than that the body will not and cannot withstand it.

 

[Thrice Daily]

No @ChiDragon it's pretty accurate. The body does feel this way. 

 

 metal can be changed to a liquid via heat. It can be experienced in the body like this but not literally, it's much more calming than actually being injected with molton metal, thankfully. Something's happen due to training that can be hard to explain. Wu Xing usually has great clues as to what is happening. 

 

Maybe it suits me more to understand more simply as I have a poet's mindset. Science is great but at some point that always breaks down, that's where mysticism begins ... 

 

11 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

 

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/the-voices-of-sun-lutangs-teachers/

 

Part 1 of chapter 4 could be a good read. 

 

I really enjoyed reading this, Chapter 4 part one and may read more and present some of the ideas here when I get time. 

 

There are some awesome talking points there for this thread I think so many thanks. 

 

There are some real gems in the paragraphs about the three levels of energy, lots of practical bits that can be applied to training. Then 4th level Mastery.