Is there a "safe" way to contact spirit of recently departed

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, S:C said:

Wtf is this? Would you explain please?

 

In other words ... 'some traditions' say , some parts of us do not 'continue on' and 'other parts 'do  . So we need to 'down load' relevant life experience to those parts that do survive .  If not, the info does not get back to 'HQ" so repeat cycles of the me might be needed , or cycled through until imprint is made . ... round and round on the ' Wheel of Karma ' .

 

So, parts of self that are  'earth based'  will pass away , some take longer than others . The physical first of course . Then the mind 'flickers' out  ( but here  that 'time is different ' thing kicks in )  ... one can have 'their life flash before their eyes' , also one can 'return to life'' from this stage .

 

What some call  the 'astral death ' is a later stage . Basically, think of 'astral ' as 'imagination ... what it can do and how its been imprinted .  It might be heaven or hell or whatever  is needed to 'play out ' . Then you get to the 'crossing stage . I like the Zoroastrian idea here , it also in a way equates  to the next level in the western  tradition . I am not sure at this part ,I would have to review  ( I am going 'off the top of my head here ' so far )    they may have  an equivalent part in the Zoroastrian tradition , not sure, but in the western, there is a sort of preliminary to this , basically we could call it a  process or rite of destruction .  Last bits of unnecessary 'identity' removed  , the 'dross leaving the pure gold' as it where .  You could look into some aspects of Tibetan Buddhism on that as well .

 

In western neo_Egyptian traditions this purified  aspect has been called 'The Immortal Osiris'  (aspect of the psyche ) .

 

We become  an 'immortal shining consciousness light ' .  And at this stage Normandy Ellis has written some wonderful and vibrant transliterations from the Egyptian Book of the Dead about this ; 'Awakening Osiris.'. , from that view and those metaphors ... its rather wonderful and inspiring .   I have used it in  a ritual and as a visualisation  I read out at a funeral once .   It was very moving and also inspiring . ... people told me it helped them a lot .

 

In Zoroastrianism  this stage is where you meet your "Daena " *... a  radiant woman ( an image of your purified soul and a 'psychopomp'  ) , who guides you across (in this case ) the Chinvat Bridge '  .... where ....

 

 

 

Well, what happens next .  In this regard I am a 'Thelemite ' in that  I ascribe to ;

 

Unto them from whose eyes the veil of life hath fallen may there be granted the accomplishment of their true Wills; whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else, unto them may there be granted the accomplishment of their wills; yea, the accomplishment of their wills.

 

'

 

*

Spoiler

(Based on the writings in Gujarati, by Late Dasturji Khurshed S. Dabu)

 

Our Zoroastrian religion is popularly known, in Gujarati, as Zarthosti Deen. The word Deena has been derived from the Avestan word,Daena. Daenais the subtler or the finer body of man (unlike his dense, visible, physical body), which acts as a bridge between his two selves – his higher self (the spiritual) and his lower self (the lower mind). Daena is the faculty of consciousness which passes on warnings and guidance from mans higher self to his lower mind when he indulges in wrongful activities. It has the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, and hence it is also understood as Antt-karan, which, if heeded to, can help the mind to evolve and lead the self to higher level of consciousness.

 

However, the lower mind of man is not easy to control. In many humans it is the slave of his physical senses and finds it very difficult to obey the guidance of Daena. Hence, its evolution is slow, unless man makes concerted effort in this direction. In the process of its evolution, during the course of its long journey, it gathers wisdom – impressions out of the lessons learnt in life.

 

These impressions are absorbed in it. At each successive rebirth, this body with further impressions, becomes a richer storehouse of spiritual wisdom, and likewise the mental body, through Daena (bridge of Antt-karan), evolves toHigher Mental Body. On the physical death of a person, the Daena with its collection of wisdom and characteristic traits – sanskaras – does not disintegrate, but is carried on, along with its soul’s rebirth, into the next incarnation. That is the reason why every person is different as far as his resoluteness in upholding righteousness is concerned, and as far as his earnestness towards his numerous duties is concerned. This difference is due to the power of the Light (Enlightenment) of his Daena. The more the power of this Light, the more advanced are his Sanskarasand more evolvedis his mind. This nature of his, is noticed in his relationship with people around him – they are lessselfish and more considerate towards others.

 

However, a human being, while in his life in the physical body, still has his own limitations. The‘Roshni’ (Light from his own lamp) from within is not sufficient to take him too far. He still needs further guidance and directions (doravni) from a Guru from outside, and hence messengers, in theform of Paigambar (Prophets), are sent by the Almighty (as Asho Zarathushtra to spreadZoroastrian Religion), to shed Light to help us tread the Path of Ashoi (Path of Righteousness and Purity), to quicken our spiritual progress. They are the Torch-bearers of the Faith.

 

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

awareness is

 

Everywhen .

[Nungali]

And then I just quoted this post elsewhere :

 

"Occult abilities are just flowers of the Tao, and the beginning of all foolishness.  The master rests in the root, not in the flower.  Relies on what he can use, not on the superficial". 

 

DOH  !

[silent thunder]

The dissociative aspect of localized awareness seems a tricky aspect and one of the most compelling 'side paths'.

When i am experiences reality as a singular, 'seperate' unit, this can be incredibly encompassing and all consuming.

 

Luckily death flips the coin and resolves the equation so to speak.

and all the while, we are never seperate by even a hair's width for even a millisecond, ever.

[Paradoxal]

On 11/10/2024 at 9:59 AM, Lukks said:

The information I have is that it takes 50-100 YEARS, not days. It's from a vajrayana buddhist.

This lines up with the memories of a past life that I have, as mine are from 1945, but I was born in 1995.

 

Time *does* pass "differently" over there, however, as it is outside of what we call spacetime. Additionally, the loved ones I've had contact me from beyond the grave have all pretty much been in the days/weeks immediately after their passing; one even visited me within an hour of death. I don't know if this is because they hadn't gone to the other side yet, though. 

[S:C]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Daena " *... a  radiant woman ( an image of your purified soul and a 'psychopomp'  ) , who guides you across (

And well, if the practitioner happens to be a (biological heterosexual) woman the Daena happens to come across as a radiant man? Huh.

 

Regarding the ‘rite of destruction’… there’s a music piece by Strawinsky that pictures that well, ‘rite of spring’ called, I believe, huh odd, it sets place in Mongolia or so, for spring a female is sacrificed in a dance, even though noone harms her physically. The female physically and in all layers just dies during this, just like in so many gruesome traditions of old, also common in the Tibetan traditions, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

Thanks, this seems helpful!,  do you know if Zoroastrism is still practiced somewhere in the west? The Tibetan view seems quite crowded in my experience. The simpler the better. Life’s complicated enough.  
I’d almost fall for a unique path, but learning seems limited- even there. Teachings seem to have parallels, though. 
 

Thanks for the onion metaphor, @Shadow_self but well you never know if it’s emptiness, beyond emptiness so what good does it do. The peeling on of layers after returning seems to make sense, even if it’s counterintuitive, why get ‘thicker’ again after returning? 
 

Edited November 11 by S:C

[S:C]

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

we are never seperate by even a hair's width for even a millisecond, ever.

Like a Tango  

 

 

Edited November 11 by S:C

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, S:C said:

Thanks for the onion metaphor, @Shadow_self but well you never know if it’s emptiness, beyond emptiness so what good does it do. The peeling on of layers after returning seems to make sense, even if it’s counterintuitive, why get ‘thicker’ again after returning? 
 

 

If you got rid of all the layers, you wouldnt be coming back  my friend

 

Generally speaking, you get about as far as where the karmic "seeds" tend to reside. Theres a set of causal conditions that reside there that set you on the way for what comes next

 

If one was to stabilize, "attain" and work at this level while still alive. Transmigration would take a very different path  

[Thrice Daily]

8 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

If you got rid of all the layers, you wouldnt be coming back  my friend

 

Generally speaking, you get about as far as where the karmic "seeds" tend to reside. Theres a set of causal conditions that reside there that set you on the way for what comes next

 

If one was to stabilize, "attain" and work at this level while still alive. Transmigration would take a very different path  

 Well put, it’s great to see put into words like this 👍 

[Shadow_self]

41 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

 Well put, it’s great to see put into words like this 👍 

 

 

Believe it or not, this is the reason i got into the arts in the first place. I lost someone I cared around a decade ago

 

This is the area I invest most of my time in.

 

Never in my wildest dreams did I anticipate some of the things that followed.

 

But im eternally grateful that ive had  almost all of  my  burning questions answered already

 

When I say im speaking from experience, on this topic, specifically,. Im certainly not kidding around  

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

Believe it or not, this is the reason i got into the arts in the first place. I lost someone I cared around a decade ago

 

This is the area I invest most of my time in.

 

Never in my wildest dreams did I anticipate some of the things that followed.

 

But im eternally grateful that ive had  almost all of  my  burning questions answered already

 

When I say im speaking from experience, on this topic, specifically,. Im certainly not kidding around  

 

 

I believe you.

 

I resonate.

 

Blessings.

[dontknwmucboutanythng]

Hello Shadow_self,

 

>But i'm eternally grateful that i've had  almost all of  my  burning questions answered already

Could you please list those "burning questions", and if it's not too private please share their answers?

 

Thanks so much.

[Shadow_self]

14 minutes ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

Hello Shadow_self,

 

>But i'm eternally grateful that i've had  almost all of  my  burning questions answered already

Could you please list those "burning questions", and if it's not too private please share their answers?

 

Thanks so much.

 

Im afraid that would be a long discussion.

 

But it would all revolve around like  causality, reincarnation, life, death, transmigration, ghosts, the various bodies of man, and how they relate to this, the process of death etc, past (and future lives), soul, spirit etc etc

 

I would be here for  a long time listing it all   

 

If there is something specific you'd like to ask me, feel free and if its something im at liberty to share, Ill do my best  

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

This lines up with the memories of a past life that I have, as mine are from 1945, but I was born in 1995.

 

Time *does* pass "differently" over there, however, as it is outside of what we call spacetime. Additionally, the loved ones I've had contact me from beyond the grave have all pretty much been in the days/weeks immediately after their passing; one even visited me within an hour of death. I don't know if this is because they hadn't gone to the other side yet, though. 

 

 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, S:C said:

And well, if the practitioner happens to be a (biological heterosexual) woman the Daena happens to come across as a radiant man? Huh.

 

   we have to take all cultural understandings as being flavored and in the terms of those cultures . This is why, as a cultural anthropologist , I take a wide variety of cultural views and try to understand any  threads in common inside the cultural clothing .

 

In many cultures we can see 'spirit', the soul , individual and world soul ( sort of Gaia , but certainly 'anima mundi ' )

, nature , environment , even in some case life itself  ... as 'female' 

 

 

Birth of Venus ... she rules over those things .

 

But now we can see it doesnt just mean 'woman ' .... however 'Man ' does seem to reject, fear and or punish all those things .

 

My 'primitive  uncivilized' nature however  ( and being a hetro male ) does prefer a Goddess , and I understand why  some women 'go for Jesus '      ... or if you are gay ... go for Jesus too  (but dont join the wrong church ! ) 

 

Or ... you could adopt the anima / animus model .

 

Regarding the ‘rite of destruction’… there’s a music piece by Strawinsky that pictures that well, ‘rite of spring’ called, I believe, huh odd, it sets place in Mongolia or so, for spring a female is sacrificed in a dance, even though noone harms her physically. The female physically and in all layers just dies during this, just like in so many gruesome traditions of old, also common in the Tibetan traditions, if I recall correctly.
 

Spoiler

I liked that 'zone' .. the 'brethren '  * give up name,  rank,  title, official forms of address , recognition, insignia , regalia ...  .... everything they have accrued  previously . As some say in this tradition ; you end up where you started ; a 'babe born into the abyss'  ... yet somehow you learnt things along the way that should 'stick' after this 'destruction ' ... its all an acted out analogy for the life process  (as all levels of imitation are ).

 

* I remember being at that level, sitting in temple , being present for another's initiation ;  'not' being present , 'not' sitting there next to a fellow of the same degree  who was not there also (and both feeling this ) , all in black, masked no identity .....  later I heard  some others (not there yet )   and the candidate had asked  " whop where those unidentified , no grade , guys sutting there silently , dressed in black with the faces covered ? ! '

 

Perfect answer :    " What guys ?" 

 

Thanks, this seems helpful!,  do you know if Zoroastrism is still practiced somewhere in the west? The Tibetan view seems quite crowded in my experience. The simpler the better. Life’s complicated enough.  

 

Yes it is , but its in a very  modern organized religious form , still they uphold good base principles . My personal  take on it  and interpretation of ot would be more 'neo Zoroastrianism' .

I’d almost fall for a unique path, but learning seems limited- even there. Teachings seem to have parallels, though. 
 

Thanks for the onion metaphor, @Shadow_self but well you never know if it’s emptiness, beyond emptiness so what good does it do. The peeling on of layers after returning seems to make sense, even if it’s counterintuitive, why get ‘thicker’ again after returning? 

 

It has benefit in that it is like the stage ( also called 'trance' in my tradition ) of not existing .  Eg the 'Buddhist realization ' is called 'The Trance of Sorrow ' .  below that is a form of Hinduism , but above it is another type of 'higher' Hinduism  (for want of better words ) ... we see them not as conflictual paths or ends in themselves but 'trances' one passes through to get to  'further states ' or realization and existences .
 

It does pay though to 'have a view through ' such things as the onion    ;

 

 

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

 

Believe it or not, this is the reason i got into the arts in the first place. I lost someone I cared around a decade ago

 

This is the area I invest most of my time in.

 

Never in my wildest dreams did I anticipate some of the things that followed.

 

But I am eternally grateful that I have  had  almost all of  my  burning questions answered already

 

When I say im speaking from experience, on this topic, specifically,. Im certainly not kidding around  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Me too but I am  a critical. doubting , double checking, and so on  ....  bastard !

 

I analysed it 'cross checked'  it , got 'proof'  against it   (that was rather lame ) did the same over and over  until one day ....'They'  got  impatient with me ;  "  Right, last chance , now ......"  -   'They' said a certain thing was going to happen , right now, in your face -  it was so nuts, I  thought,  nah that is NEVER going to happen .

 

" ... and if you are not convinced after this , we give up goodbye ! "

 

Wow, I really thought I had lost the plot !  But then ... right away , and right in my face ,  that thing  happened  .

I have no explanation  (physically or psychologically ).. even the person that did it seemed to have no idea why she  did it , she  where confused about coming up to me and saying what she did (repeating what 'they' said , verbaitum )  and  I realised ,   to keep looking for  another physical  cause  or demanding one   , at this stage , would be going against my own principles;   ' the independant investigation of truth ', I realised the experiences  had passed years of 'harsh critical testing' on  my  part , so I just accpted it and let it wash over me ...

 

 

Boy, did things change then !  Jeeze I would be fucked up now if I had not done that ... what I would have missed out on ! 

 

 

(offerings of gratitude and appreciation )

 

Same  with my Aboriginal teacher , him :  " Always say bugglebar ." ( meaning ; thank you , it is good, I appreciate the experience  )

Edited November 12 by Nungali

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, S:C said:

....

Thanks, this seems helpful!,  do you know if Zoroastrism is still practiced somewhere in the west? The Tibetan view seems quite crowded in my experience. The simpler the better. Life’s complicated enough.  
I’d almost fall for a unique path, but learning seems limited- even there. Teachings seem to have parallels, though. 
...

 

 

I wanted to address this separately .  I agree . That is why I have done several studies on this particular currents evolution and travells into the complex depths of organized later religions relating to them and  filter out the essential and crucial elements we can follow and practice . There are many posts I put on the site scattered about that look at different aspects on this , and with the help also of other daobums , directing me to missing info and things , I fee there are some valuable posts on it floating around ... i haven made a 'magnum opus' out of it here though .

 

For example. latter Zoroastianism (and I think Buddhism to an extent ) can have complex rituals , dieties ,  what I see as knowlkedge of the parts of the psyche being  interpreted into angels and devil battles  and all sorts of folf mythologies intertwined  . Yet thay also contain simple directives  or avoidences that make changes in our mind and psyche that allow us to intuit and enact 'good thoughts' that lead to good words and good actions .

 

For example One thing I can site is making offerings of appreciation  (n ote not 'sacrifices and certainly not animal sacrifices   BOTH  Buddha and Zoroaster  didnt go that way ... its 'bad for us ' , but apprecitaion and showing it with offerings of gratitude is good , and that doesnt mean its a full blown yasna ceremony  ( thats  a cultural thing as well ) , it can be as simple as ofering a flower and saying thankyou ... thing is , that can change consciosness , for the better .

 

Here is another example ; ancient Zoroastrial respect and protection for animals and environment ( well, of course, nowadays , but unusual 'back then ' ... during its founding period ) ;   farm animals should be used for one purpose , and when they can not provide that , should be put out to haoppily retire in nice pasture .  I see that as  not being selfish to the animal ; if you get eggs of chicken , and it gets old, do not kill it and eat it , retire it .  If you do want to eat chicken , keep those ones seperately  and dont make 'pets' out of them   . If you abuse animals and use them as your slaves .... thats one step away from feeling/ thinking  you could do that to people ... and some certainly did and do that !  They had special legislation for dogs , you get into a lot of trouble for abusing a dog , they where considered 'the friend of mankind' and have been a companion and helper towards civilisation   (  human , dog,  cattle { and goat /sheep}   and horse ; the 4 creatures of 'civilisation' . )

 

regarding protection of  environment  ... I think we have come (some of us ) to make that realisation already .

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

 

Me too but I am  a critical. doubting , double checking, and so on  ....  bastard !

 

I analysed it 'cross checked'  it , got 'proof'  against it   (that was arther lame ) did the same over and over  until one day ....'they'  got  impatient with me ! "  Right, last chance , now ......"  ( a certain thing was going to happen , right now, in your face )  .... it was so nuts..  I thought nah that is NEVER going to happen .

 

" ... and if you are not convinced after this , we give up goodbye ! "

 

Wow, I really thought I had lost the plot !  But then ... right away , and right in my face ,  that thing  happened  .

I have no explanation  (physically or psychologically ).. even the person that did it seemed to have no idea why they did it , they where confused about them coming up to me and saying (repeating what 'they' said , verbaitum )  and  I realised , to find  to keep looking for  another cause  or demanding one   , at this stage , would be going against my own principles;   'i the ndependant investigation of truth ', I realised it had passed years of 'harsh critical testing' on  my  part , so I just accpted it and let it wash over me ...

 

 

Biy, did things change then !  Jeeze I would be fucked up now if I had not done that ... what I would have missed out on ! 

 

 

(offerings of gratitude and appreciation )

 

Same  with my Aboriginal teacher , him :  " Always say bugglebar ." (thank you , it is good, I appreciate the experience  )

 

Haha it all sounds similar what I went through in the same manner of repeatedly trying to dismiss it

 

I guess when things are meant to happen, certain forces dont take no for an answer  

 

[dontknwmucboutanythng]

> But it would all revolve around like  causality, reincarnation, life,
>death, transmigration, ghosts, the various bodies of man, and how they
> relate to this, the process of death etc, past (and future lives), soul, 
> spirit etc etc

 

Hello Shadow_self,

 

I read "Tibetan book of the dead", "The Tibetan book of living and dying", a number of books on NDE, research on NDE and reincarnation by University of Virginia Division of Perceptual Studies, summary of a few Buddhist Sutras, and of course lots of posting on this site relating to these topics.  Obviously, I don't know much compare to all the people on here.  Regardless, I feel that my belief/understanding about what happen after death is still very much bookish and not so very deeply held. All of what I do regarding to these subjects is Pascal's wager.

 

I hope that in these subjects your knowledge of them are empirical if this is the right word to use. Hence my first few questions are:

 

Is there anything after death, and what did you do to convince yourself of that?

What are signs that a soul has successfully make the transition vs stuck around in this  realm?

What are signs that a soul is still around here?

Is it possible to find out where a soul transition to, i.e another human life, or ?

 

Thanks again Shadow_self!

[Shadow_self]

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

I hope that in these subjects your knowledge of them are empirical if this is the right word to use. Hence my first few questions are:

 

Im a researcher by training, so yes it is. 

 

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

Is there anything after death,

 

Yes. Death is just a transition, as is birth, this cycles over and over again

 

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

and what did you do to convince yourself of that?

 

Unfortunately, I dont think I could detail this without giving up my anonymity, so ill have to decline to comment

 

Except to say, as of now,  my senses in a way are tuned to a bandwith slightly above normal, (ie clairvoyance, claraudience and clarsentience).

 

Some of that was training, but as far as im told , all of my teachers, agreed there was latent ability there, so all it took was a little push in the right direction

 

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

What are signs that a soul has successfully make the transition vs stuck around in this  realm?

 

Technically if they hang around it isnt "this realm"

 

But for the normal folk, without training  theres no real way to know Im afraid, unless one of them is hanging around as a ghost and you're in a situation where you get a glimpse or some contact

 

Generally speaking, we arent  exactly aware of them, and as for ghosts, they arent normally aware of us either. This is why you seen them obliviously repeating the same things over and over like a  video clip on loop

 

However, once opened up to them, they tend to be like flies. Its almost like lighting a candle in the dark

 

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

What are signs that a soul is still around here?

 

For normal folk, there really isnt much you could do to discern that

 

It is possible to have communication during  the tranisition to sleep or during sleep, due what takes place mechanically.

 

But the subtle nuances regards whether this is a dream, or an actual  experience of contact are almost impossible to discern for people without a lot of training

 

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

Is it possible to find out where a soul transition to, i.e another human life, or ?

 

It is, there is an aspect of the soul thats known as Shuang Ling in Daoism. This is part of the soul that contains collective conciousness, so tapping into this would basically make someone omniscient

 

But its beyond the reach of al but the masters  

 

Theres another methods Buddhists use too,  but thats not entirely something ive delved into much

 

11 hours ago, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

Thanks again Shadow_self!

 

Hope that helps

[Nungali]

I wont comment further on that since I was not the person asked , but I want to address one thing ;

 

" Generally speaking, we arent  exactly aware of them, and as for ghosts, they arent normally aware of us either. This is why you seen them obliviously repeating the same things over and over like a  video clip on loop  "

 

and I do note you started with 'generally ' , so this is more directed at another opinion , many seem to hold it, especially my friend ; she is a 'gurudgegen' ; basically, in training to be an Aboriginal medicine woman  ( she is  a survivor of about a half dozen out of near 40 that  started over 6 years ago , thats how many have  'failed along the way '  - there was a recent purge of a fair few recently  ; they 'broke law'  by putting some things on social media that they should not have  .... their boss is strict and  warned them she would 'come after them' if they broke the law  .. anyway  that's  'women's business '  - traditons are seperated down here )  point is she believes and I think, was taught, that ghosts are sort of like an echo that repeats  impressions , or something .

 

Now, I think that might be the case , for some type of 'cast off'  part of the psyche but I asked her how she explained  that in one case   .... I could  talk to them, and they could respond and seem to be aware of the current environment ... the time of day, comment on the angle of the sun  through the trees shining into the room  and comment on the type of music playing at the moment  and how they felt about it . 

 

That aint no echo ! 

 

- and , I wasnt the only one that had a similar conversation with her .

 

My friend then asked me what my explanation was and I offered ; " I dont see why OUR catagories need to contain them in an either or, this or that ,thing or  'box ' .  For all I know they can do what they will,  travel to and fro here and there , maybe even 'split' and be in more places than one ....

 

Again I am  put back to my  view that  ...

 

whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else,

 

... or aught else  ...   I certainly cannot concieve everything that might be out there or possible .   

Edited November 12 by Nungali

[Shadow_self]

9 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I wont comment further on that since I was not the person asked , but I want to address one thing ;

 

" Generally speaking, we arent  exactly aware of them, and as for ghosts, they arent normally aware of us either. This is why you seen them obliviously repeating the same things over and over like a  video clip on loop  "

 

and I do note you started with 'generally ' , so this is more directed at another opinion , many seem to hold it, especially my friend ; she is a 'gurudgegen' ; basically, in training to be an Aboriginal medicine woman  ( she is  a survivor of about a half dozen out of near 40 that  started over 6 years ago , thats how many have  'failed along the way '  - there was a recent purge of a fair few recently  ; they 'broke law'  by putting some things on social media that they should not have  .... their boss is strict and  warned them she would 'come after them' if they broke the law  .. anyway  that's  'women's business '  - traditons are seperated down here )  point is she believes and I think, was taught, that ghosts are sort of like an echo that repeats  impressions , or something .

 

Now, I think that might be the case , for some type of 'cast off'  part of the psyche but I asked her how she explained  that in one case   .... I could  talk to them, and they could respond and seem to be aware of the current environment ... the time of day, comment on the angle of the sun  through the trees shining into the room  and comment on the type of music playing at the moment  and how they felt about it . 

 

That aint no echo ! 

 

- and , I wasnt the only one that had a similar conversation with her .

 

My friend then asked me what my explanation was and I offered ; " I dont see why OUR catagories need to contain them in an either or, this or that ,thing or  'box ' .  For all I know they can do what they will,  travel to and fro here and there , maybe even 'split' and be in more places than one ....

 

Again I am  put back to my  view that  ...

 

whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else,

 

... or aught else  ...   I certainly cannot concieve everything that might be out there or possible .   

 

Yes, i did use  that term generally for a reason

 

 If you are aware of the components (or functions) of the soul then when you think about the Hun/Po of Daoism, you might not be surprised to know that certain types of death can mess up the standard sequence of events (suicidefor example)

 

Theres another thing too, where they can "borrow" from you as a means to manifest to a degree.   This is what has happened to me

 

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

I can jive with that.

[S:C]

6 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Theres another thing too, where they can "borrow" from you as a means to manifest

Borrow?

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Yes, i did use  that term generally for a reason

 

 If you are aware of the components (or functions) of the soul then when you think about the Hun/Po of Daoism, you might not be surprised to know that certain types of death can mess up the standard sequence of events (suicidefor example)

 

Yes, in thinking about it, I suppose my own general personal experience was  as I described above ; 'present' , alert , interactive  and not the other type . Yet generally , overall , not person , there would be a LOT more of this other type

 

Interesting, in that you made me think about and , generally, for me,  they have been as I described . That exact experience I described above  was a one off and an exception . But generally (again, for me )  I'd say more of them have been like that . The others , that you seem to mention , I would put in two classes (again, in my experience ) ; one I would term 'personal visitation ' meaning I did not come upon it , or in some place I went to , it came into my place  , the other I would call 'general background '  , not personally interactive but  collectively there .

 

I better explain that . I live in a valley  and it has had three indigenous massacres in it ;  up near the headwater ,  at the middle in the fresh meets salt water zone  and at the river mouth .  So there is a lot of 'residual energy ' embedded in 'country' .  If one can hear such things it can range from a general deep grown to wailing  sort of sound . Sometimes like women and children screaming .  Its always there , you learn to live with it and work with it , and  most of the time you can not hear it .... unless you listen .   My 'medicine women friend ' knows  about it and feels it . Most dont , it has all sorts of effects on people , regardless . 

 

This is probably what she feels are lost souls , ghosts, spirits or echoes . I think that is what they are , but I dont see it as all those people trapped here or something .  I know many Aboriginal groups feel these things need to be 'put to rest '  ;  'bones bought home to country ' , so they can rest .  Not sure if it means 'to move on ' with them .  They all think 'sort of 'different about that .  Some stories seem to suggest reincarnation  ' you come back again after you die '  ..... and that is from the Moon  Man  .... and he goes away and comes back    .   Here ,people, when born ,  'come from  country'  and that is where they return to as part their  country  when they die .

 

 I certainly hope to ; everything I  got from Earth I will give back to it .   But I also think there is more than those aspects .

 

I think all those slaughtered people did move on  but their experience lives on and  IS embedded in landscape .... to remind us , as a lesson to us ...  and as I write this it came to mind that this whole valley is under a 'lesson'  and that lesson is told in a story that ends with the main character being 'embedded in landscape ' - cast into the mountain ..... you can see his face , some days , startling clear , as he gazes up the valley .

 

6 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Theres another thing too, where they can "borrow" from you as a means to manifest to a degree.   This is what has happened to me

 

 

 

 

 

If I am on track with what you mean , that can be anything from  your 'constant experience' as you 'share your life' with 'spirit' . ..... to a 'God invocation'  ..... to a Voudon ritual .        I try to remain constantly mindful of the first , I have done several of the second and one of the third  ( with 'Simbi la Flambeu '  the fire snake  ) .