Is there a "safe" way to contact spirit of recently departed

[S:C]

 

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If one was to stabilize, "attain" and work at this level while still alive. Transmigration would take a very different path  

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Is that your aim? 

how does that coincide with all the options you mentioned below? would those  be spirit or ghost options, like if something went a different turn than in the ‘normal’ process? Some layers are not available when it’s not in the ‘timeframe’ for you, I suppose?

Edited November 16 by S:C
Saving time

[tianzhang]

On 11/11/2024 at 7:13 PM, Shadow_self said:

 

Im afraid that would be a long discussion.

 

But it would all revolve around like  causality, reincarnation, life, death, transmigration, ghosts, the various bodies of man, and how they relate to this, the process of death etc, past (and future lives), soul, spirit etc etc

 

I would be here for  a long time listing it all   

 

If there is something specific you'd like to ask me, feel free and if its something im at liberty to share, Ill do my best  

So how accurate is the Buddhist Karma system, and all the Hell, punishments,etc described?

I've been told all my life this stuff is true, but I can't really see it. I've seen people do things that in the Sutras definitely would land someone in Hell immediately and they go on to live good lives. I've seen people do good things that are supposed to create good karma not only for them but their children, the father would end up dying poor, and the children end up suffering the same fate.

In my own personal life, I've never really received rewards for goodness it's always been force that seemed to work for people. Either the sutras/suttas greatly exaggerate or there;s some obscured here.  If there is an afterlife does it have an actual law system that denotes merit or demerit based on our actions or is it really just a free for all where you do whatever you want?

Or is there a more insidious soul engine going on?

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, tianzhang said:

So how accurate is the Buddhist Karma system, and all the Hell, punishments,etc described?

I've been told all my life this stuff is true, but I can't really see it. I've seen people do things that in the Sutras definitely would land someone in Hell immediately and they go on to live good lives. I've seen people do good things that are supposed to create good karma not only for them but their children, the father would end up dying poor, and the children end up suffering the same fate.

In my own personal life, I've never really received rewards for goodness it's always been force that seemed to work for people. Either the sutras/suttas greatly exaggerate or there;s some obscured here.  If there is an afterlife does it have an actual law system that denotes merit or demerit based on our actions or is it really just a free for all where you do whatever you want?

Or is there a more insidious soul engine going on?

 

If you observe and think carefully, the mandatory system of Karma and reincarnation do not work theoretically.  It may be only feasible in a very simplistic world.   Once more and more people are  involved and complexity of societies increase, these 2 systems would be so complicated that each one has millions of Karma accumulating everyday and from numerous previous lives.   Everyone is tangled helpless in this big web.  It would be fine if good deeds and wrong deeds can be offset, but it implies someone can be evil if he is doing enough good deeds.  If it is not offset then is it possible?

 

I happen to read a very famous Confucian scholar in Ming Dynasty.  His opinion was that Lord Buddha observed the phenomenon, but it is far from applicable to everyone as most of the people have weak souls/ingrains that cannot be passed from lives to lives.   They are wiped clean.  Only the saints and super villains could possibly keep a certain traits from previous lives.

 

@Shadow_self is very right that it would be a very lengthy discussion. 

 

[tianzhang]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

If you observe and think carefully, the mandatory system of Karma and reincarnation do not work theoretically.  It may be only feasible in a very simplistic world.   Once more and more people are  involved and complexity of societies increase, these 2 systems would be so complicated that each one has millions of Karma accumulating everyday and from numerous previous lives.   Everyone is tangled helpless in this big web.  It would be fine if good deeds and wrong deeds can be offset, but it implies someone can be evil if he is doing enough good deeds.  If it is not offset then is it possible?

 

I happen to read a very famous Confucian scholar in Ming Dynasty.  His opinion was that Lord Buddha observed the phenomenon, but it is far from applicable to everyone as most of the people have weak souls/ingrains that cannot be passed from lives to lives.   They are wiped clean.  Only the saints and super villains could possibly keep a certain traits from previous lives.

 

@Shadow_self is very right that it would be a very lengthy discussion. 

 

I wonder if karma even exists at all, perhaps it's not and it's some sort of soul-based ponzi scheme to get people to believe.

[Nungali]

Its become all sorts of things ... including a justification of rich people not sharing  ... they must be poor (or sick, or had an accident ) due to 'karma'  ... their concern , not mine .

 

My take on karma  ?   Cause and reaction .  Do something wrong - it will 'come back at you ' . And I mean that on a material level ;

 

You piss in your drinking water ... then you get pissy drinking water . Serves you right !  of course, humans being the  'animal of complications' , they have made that process , very complicated   ... perhaps to the extent of the ruination of their whole environmental support network !

 

Now that is some 'bad karma '     coming down !

 

.

Edited November 25 by Nungali

[tianzhang]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

Its become all sorts of things ... including a justification of rich people not sharing  ... they must be poor (or sick, or had an accident ) due to 'karma'  ... their concern , not mine .

 

My take on karma  ?   Cause and reaction .  Do something wrong - it will 'come back at you ' . And I mean that on a material level ;

 

You piss in your drinking water ... then you get pissy drinking water . Serves you right !  of course, humans being the  'animal of complications' , they have made that process , very complicated   ... perhaps to the extent of the ruination of their whole environmental support network !

 

Now that is some 'bad karma '     coming down !

 

.

I remember one of the great crimes that will get you damned to Avici hell is destroying the statue of a Buddha ... but alot of Western countries did the exact same thing during their invasion, there doesn't seem to be any repercussion for them at all and in the Sutras it was deemed IMMEDIATE.

I've also not really seen any good fruits from the good deeds I did as a Buddhist including the ones that were supposed to create innumerable merits.

 

Edited November 26 by tianzhang

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, tianzhang said:

I remember one of the great crimes that will get you damned to Avici hell is destroying the statue of a Buddha ... but alot of Western countries did the exact same thing during their invasion, there doesn't seem to be any repercussion for them at all and in the Sutras it was deemed IMMEDIATE.

I've also not really seen any good fruits from the good deeds I did as a Buddhist including the ones that were supposed to create innumerable merits.

 

 

Oh thats an easy one  .    Those westerners are cursed with the fact that they are that sort of people . How are they going to get anywhere  ( well,  anywhere not materially greedy ) .   Those attitudes indicate being stuck on a very low level , so there is your absolutly immediate karma !

 

For yourself ; say you give a hungry person food  .... the act is the merit  - they got the food .

 

You know the Sufis have a prayer something like ; if I dont do good works, let me be cast into hell . If I do good works so as to be not cast into hell, may I be cast into hell .

 

If one  cant see the merit they are getting  from good works , then I would be suspect on  what they  were taught to expect  .

 

.

Edited November 26 by Nungali

[old3bob]

 

which remids me of :  "Cast your bread upon the waters, for after many days you will find it again"

(or the birds and fish will )

[Neirong]

19 hours ago, tianzhang said:

I wonder if karma even exists at all, perhaps it's not and it's some sort of soul-based ponzi scheme to get people to believe.

Karma exists, it is just different from what most people imagine or think it to be.

[Paradoxal]

13 hours ago, tianzhang said:

but alot of Western countries did the exact same thing during their invasion, there doesn't seem to be any repercussion for them at all

...and yet, Western influence is currently falling, and the Western powers are on the brink of nuclear war. 

[tianzhang]

On 11/26/2024 at 1:50 AM, Nungali said:

 

Oh thats an easy one  .    Those westerners are cursed with the fact that they are that sort of people . How are they going to get anywhere  ( well,  anywhere not materially greedy ) .   Those attitudes indicate being stuck on a very low level , so there is your absolutly immediate karma !

 

For yourself ; say you give a hungry person food  .... the act is the merit  - they got the food .

 

You know the Sufis have a prayer something like ; if I dont do good works, let me be cast into hell . If I do good works so as to be not cast into hell, may I be cast into hell .

 

If one  cant see the merit they are getting  from good works , then I would be suspect on  what they  were taught to expect  .

 

.

I expect good stuff to happen to me, or at the very least not repeatedly having problems doing things in life. It seems like the more good I do, it's not that I don't receive anything it's that I will ACTIVELY suffer.

[tianzhang]

On 11/26/2024 at 12:49 PM, Paradoxal said:

...and yet, Western influence is currently falling, and the Western powers are on the brink of nuclear war. 

I come from one of the invaded countries, and currently live in the Western Countries. Western Influence is in fact expanding well at least in Asia Japan, Korean, and in Southeast Asia Vietnam is heavily adapting Western culture.

If the West did fall, I don't think Asia is any better off.

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, tianzhang said:

I expect good stuff to happen to me, or at the very least not repeatedly having problems doing things in life. It seems like the more good I do, it's not that I don't receive anything it's that I will ACTIVELY suffer.

 

Okay . But what is it that you do that you consider good ?

 

And what would you consider is 'good stuff' that you would get in return ?

[tianzhang]

50 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Okay . But what is it that you do that you consider good ?

 

And what would you consider is 'good stuff' that you would get in return ?

Success in my endeavors, lack of cravings for emotional and physical stimulation, overall peace and tranquility. 

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, tianzhang said:

Success in my endeavors, lack of cravings for emotional and physical stimulation, overall peace and tranquility. 

 

and my first question ?

[tianzhang]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

and my first question ?

Oh I am sorry I misread your question.

I once saved a whole family from starvation. The man was from my country and he had suffered from a construction accident leading him to be impaled by a lead pipe. His whole family had run out of their savings and were on the verge of  death, I was quite little at the time but had managed to save up 500 dollars and I gave my entire savings to him, him and his family managed to live and survive otherwise they were going to die.

The social care and welfare system over there isn't quite developed even until today.

[Nungali]

25 minutes ago, tianzhang said:

Oh I am sorry I misread your question.

I once saved a whole family from starvation. The man was from my country and he had suffered from a construction accident leading him to be impaled by a lead pipe. His whole family had run out of their savings and were on the verge of  death, I was quite little at the time but had managed to save up 500 dollars and I gave my entire savings to him, him and his family managed to live and survive otherwise they were going to die.

The social care and welfare system over there isn't quite developed even until today.

 

Wow .  Even I feel good now for  you .  So you should feel good too, that you where able to do that , and they must feel so good you did that for them .   Thats all great and in my opinion , balanced out .

 

But now  you need to address your own problems in a different way .

 

If you see that good act you did as a type of magical ritual that you should get something from , then there is also another part to it .

 

Lets say , (for arguments sake )  you 'pray to God' to win the lotto . You cant just sit there and expect something to happen , you have to (or get someone to do it for you ) go and buy the ticket .

 

For example ;  maybe someone that tried the right technique for getting peace and tranquility and it didnt work , after then doing good works,  the  right technique might be now more effective ; you still have to work for it though .

 

All I can suggest is keep doing good works when you can  and separately work on yourself with what you need to do .

 

At times in  my past I  did a lot to help others and often it was spat back in my face , but not always . and I saw people that acted in a nasty way and didnt help them .  I see those people now, the nasty ones , and I am forever thankful that I dont have their problems, their outlooks, their dishonesty .  I certainly have my own issues and problems to work through, they didnt go away because I helped others .  But for all I know , all the great stuff I have got  may have been helped by that  and , to me, it s invaluable .

 

There might be other ways or other systems with different  approaches that can help you get what you want . I hope you find success in that .

[tianzhang]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Wow .  Even I feel good now for  you .  So you should feel good too, that you where able to do that , and they must feel so good you did that for them .   Thats all great and in my opinion , balanced out .

 

But now  you need to address your own problems in a different way .

 

If you see that good act you did as a type of magical ritual that you should get something from , then there is also another part to it .

 

Lets say , (for arguments sake )  you 'pray to God' to win the lotto . You cant just sit there and expect something to happen , you have to (or get someone to do it for you ) go and buy the ticket .

 

For example ;  maybe someone that tried the right technique for getting peace and tranquility and it didnt work , after then doing good works,  the  right technique might be now more effective ; you still have to work for it though .

 

All I can suggest is keep doing good works when you can  and separately work on yourself with what you need to do .

 

At times in  my past I  did a lot to help others and often it was spat back in my face , but not always . and I saw people that acted in a nasty way and didnt help them .  I see those people now, the nasty ones , and I am forever thankful that I dont have their problems, their outlooks, their dishonesty .  I certainly have my own issues and problems to work through, they didnt go away because I helped others .  But for all I know , all the great stuff I have got  may have been helped by that  and , to me, it s invaluable .

 

There might be other ways or other systems with different  approaches that can help you get what you want . I hope you find success in that .

I just need to get all these obstacles out of my life, I've tried alot and everything. I traveled far to train with my teacher and do the best that I can at every step of the way it seemed something bad would happen.

It seems to me the Universe is random, it loves some more than others. Hopefully like you said there is systems to coax it into giving you what you want.

Edited November 29 by tianzhang

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, tianzhang said:

I just need to get all these obstacles out of my life, I've tried alot and everything. I traveled far to train with my teacher and do the best that I can at every step of the way it seemed something bad would happen.

It seems to me the Universe is random, it loves some more than others. Hopefully like you said there is systems to coax it into giving you what you want.

 

Have you looked into your natal astrology ? Some people are born under difficult  alignments . I am not talking new age modern astrology, where some see everything as perfect  - in the older times , you could be 'born under a bad sign ' and that was 'tough luck' , but still  you would have other aspects you could work with  and sometimes , with a good understanding of them you can use those to advantage .  Basically , that can  offer new approaches and methods .

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Have you looked into your natal astrology ? Some people are born under difficult  alignments . I am not talking new age modern astrology, where some see everything as perfect  - in the older times , you could be 'born under a bad sign ' and that was 'tough luck' , but still  you would have other aspects you could work with  and sometimes , with a good understanding of them you can use those to advantage .  Basically , that can  offer new approaches and methods .

Good call. I remember doing this for myself, old school style with a big book. I was living in Taiwan at the time and it was Orange season. Spent around 10 days just living off orange juice and doing my natal charts, and progressive charts for next years/decades,,, 

 

Well worth the effort and certainly very interesting doing it the older school way via the books.  

 

Thanks for reminding me about this Nungali , , I've just remembered what a large part of my evolution of understanding actually rested on this process...

[Nungali]

19 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

Good call. I remember doing this for myself, old school style with a big book. I was living in Taiwan at the time and it was Orange season. Spent around 10 days just living off orange juice and doing my natal charts, and progressive charts for next years/decades,,, 

 

Well worth the effort and certainly very interesting doing it the older school way via the books.  

 

Thanks for reminding me about this Nungali , , I've just remembered what a large part of my evolution of understanding actually rested on this process...

 

One of the best educational things about myself  was when I did a course on reading one's own chart .   With some insight, its much better than having another do it for you , as, if you are not riddled with self delusions , who knows better  the deeper interpretation and how it relates to you , than yourself .

[Thrice Daily]

Just now, Nungali said:

 

One of the best educational things about myself  was when I did a course on reading one's own chart .   With some insight, its much better than having another do it for you , as, if you are not riddled with self delusions , who knows better  the deeper interpretation and how it relates to you , than yourself .

I totally agree, such a multifaceted process, so many ways to process depending on which few points you hold in mind each time. See something new every time. Yeah I agree. Doing it yourself is a brilliant idea. Quite a journey indeed.  

[silent thunder]

When dealing with the 'unbodied' i find it's crucial to remind one's local awareness that just because they don't have a body, doesn't mean they are who they claim to be, that they're smart, or that they have your best interests in their motivation.

 

As with all interactions, be present and authenticate to the best of your capacity.

[Thrice Daily]

how would you suggest you do that, would you not say faith and trust are about as far as you can go. 

 

I mean sure you could intend to verify, but how would you really know any authentication wasn't being feigned by the unbodied, or a mere hallucination of self?

[silent thunder]

It's a reminder; the reminder is the point, the process and the pivot.

 

the demand for how you should accomplish such is rather odd... and snarky.

particularly since you answer yourself in the next thought.

i mean, if you can't trust your ability to gauge...