Is there a "safe" way to contact spirit of recently departed

[tianzhang]

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Have you looked into your natal astrology ? Some people are born under difficult  alignments . I am not talking new age modern astrology, where some see everything as perfect  - in the older times , you could be 'born under a bad sign ' and that was 'tough luck' , but still  you would have other aspects you could work with  and sometimes , with a good understanding of them you can use those to advantage .  Basically , that can  offer new approaches and methods .

Yeah I got one from the Dalai Lama's people, none of it was ever accurate the only thing remotely paranormal I've experienced is through qigong/martial arts tbh.

[Thrice Daily]

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

It's a reminder; the reminder is the point, the process and the pivot.

 

the demand for how you should accomplish such is rather odd... and snarky.

particularly since you answer yourself in the next thought.

i mean, if you can't trust your ability to gauge...

My question was to you?

Me answering it better conveys what I already think, inspiring a different answer perhaps…

 

We all tend to have different answers.Conventional Truths and Ultimate Truths can coexist as well as Subjective Truths also. I was asking the question out of curiosity, I’m always willing to learn something new, and concede when proved wrong.

 

So if you are visited by a ghost, an apparition of the mind, the voice of a past loved one, how to you seek to verify? Is there a particular power or entity you call upon to help? Or is a reminder as far as you can go in your sharing?

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, tianzhang said:

Yeah I got one from the Dalai Lama's people, none of it was ever accurate the only thing remotely paranormal I've experienced is through qigong/martial arts tbh.

 

But  what do they know about YOU (aside from whats on the chart ? ) .. that was my point in learning to read one's own chart .

 

I am confused about how 'the paranormal' suddenly entered that sentence  ? 

[Nungali]

On 11/30/2024 at 8:17 AM, silent thunder said:

When dealing with the 'unbodied' i find it's crucial to remind one's local awareness that just because they don't have a body, doesn't mean they are who they claim to be, that they're smart, or that they have your best interests in their motivation.

 

As with all interactions, be present and authenticate to the best of your capacity.

 

So many miss this . Thats why there are preliminary tests .  I used to say to people; "Why trust what a spirit claims without testing it ? If a stranger came up to you on the street  or rang your phone , would you accept them at face value ? "   .... I used to say that .... until a friend  'lent' her 'son'  her last few thousand (and deposited it into 'his new account' ) all from a text  that started  " Mom, I need help ! ... first of all I lost my phone and had to buy this new one  and then my bank account .....  " 

 

 

 

/

Edited December 1 by Nungali

[tianzhang]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

But  what do they know about YOU (aside from whats on the chart ? ) .. that was my point in learning to read one's own chart .

 

I am confused about how 'the paranormal' suddenly entered that sentence  ? 

Almost nothing this was an online service and my bad, I am a skeptic for phenomenas not accepted by mainstream science. So I see anything such as natal birth-charts, palm reading, etc as 'paranormal'. 

Also, what's the difference between reading your own chart vs someone else doing it? The information would end up the same, no? I gave them my birthday, time of birth, and location, etc.

[Thrice Daily]

2 minutes ago, tianzhang said:

Almost nothing this was an online service and my bad, I am a skeptic for phenomenas not accepted by mainstream science. So I see anything such as natal birth-charts, palm reading, etc as 'paranormal'. 

Also, what's the difference between reading your own chart vs someone else doing it? The information would end up the same, no? I gave them my birthday, time of birth, and location, etc.

It may be worth just starting simple, I mean your sun sign, next your ascendant (that is thought to be the next most important and one you will resemble more as the years roll on) and the sign your moon was in (receptive nature) .. Just reading into this, the meaning of them and pondering them can take you quite deep...

 

TBF though it helped me as I already had an interest in astrology since a teenager and had thought a great deal about family and their signs over the years. That was what really heled the chart come to life for me. Particular reading into my Mom and Dads charts and appreciating how that impacted my predispositions...

 

The stars and planets are huge, and although we cannot see them their forces certainly act upon us. It can be an interesting journey having a luck. 

 

Life is a bit like sailing in this sense, you could sail any where or walk,,, but when you look at very detailed maps you will look at the experience of sailing very differently. Hope that hasn't butchered it too much for you. Hopefully Nungali can bring some more clarity, he is a bit better at arranging his thoughts in words thatn I currently am,, currently!!

[tianzhang]

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

It may be worth just starting simple, I mean your sun sign, next your ascendant (that is thought to be the next most important and one you will resemble more as the years roll on) and the sign your moon was in (receptive nature) .. Just reading into this, the meaning of them and pondering them can take you quite deep...

 

TBF though it helped me as I already had an interest in astrology since a teenager and had thought a great deal about family and their signs over the years. That was what really heled the chart come to life for me. Particular reading into my Mom and Dads charts and appreciating how that impacted my predispositions...

 

The stars and planets are huge, and although we cannot see them their forces certainly act upon us. It can be an interesting journey having a luck. 

 

Life is a bit like sailing in this sense, you could sail any where or walk,,, but when you look at very detailed maps you will look at the experience of sailing very differently. Hope that hasn't butchered it too much for you. Hopefully Nungali can bring some more clarity, he is a bit better at arranging his thoughts in words thatn I currently am,, currently!!

Yeah I looked through all of those as well, none of them really match me. I am a Leo supposedly and to be honest none of these traits really match me as a person, neither did any of the other signs you mentioned. 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, tianzhang said:

Almost nothing this was an online service and my bad, I am a skeptic for phenomenas not accepted by mainstream science. So I see anything such as natal birth-charts, palm reading, etc as 'paranormal'. 

 

Hmmmm .... 'mainstream science '  ?  Does that include  quantum physics ?  Thats part of mainstream science . Some postulations in quantum physics are WAAAAY out there and are just as fantastical, weird and  unobservable in 'everyday reality ' as 'the paranormal'  - they are way above 'normal' .  But then , I suppose, if you dont know about that , one will assume science is all rationale and sensible .

 

But how does your statement of  " I am a skeptic for phenomena not accepted by mainstream science."  justify your other statement,  like : "is there a more insidious soul engine going on? "  - is a 'soul engine' accepted by mainstream science ?

Also, what's the difference between reading your own chart vs someone else doing it? The information would end up the same, no? I gave them my birthday, time of birth, and location, etc.

 

Its a very obvious difference .  Lets say (just as a simple example )  a reader ( meaning one who reads your chart)  says to you , "  You have a badly aspected Mars , and anger will be detrimental to your aims . You must learn not to be angry . Also you have  a strong independent streak and show potential for working your way through issues  .... perhaps if you have a calmer approach ."

Now, that would or might come from another's literal reading of the chart -  but what do they know about all the details and little parts of your own individual and unique expression ?  You know that , and with these extra details you might get a different interpretation from a general one ( especially an 'on line one from the Dali Lama '  I mean , really !?  Come on now  !  ) . from your perspective with much more information about yourself and life , you might , for example, realize  that anger has been detrimental to aims , but it wasnt from you , you KNOW your  parents are angry about your career choice and they have been detrimental to your aims , in all sorts of ways , even within yourself because you  dont want to go against their wishes ; that's the part you need a calmer approach with ; calm yourself about upsetting them , tune into that independent streak you have  and work through the issues with them , it isnt about working through the issues with your own anger .

 

Something like that  .... how would Dali Lama on line astrology service know those details about your personal life and parents ?

 

Of course it also depends on the type of astrology  , I suggest a more valid type than the  trash available on today's market  thats pop, simplistic , has an aberration in it due to  current fashions and notions about 'self'  and its primary purpose is to take money of schmucks .

 

As you used the term earlier ; its a ponzi scheme ; like the interpretation of karma you where given ; but there is a more valid expression and understanding  of astrology  as there is a more valid expression and understanding of karma

 

 

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

It may be worth just starting simple, I mean your sun sign, next your ascendant (that is thought to be the next most important and one you will resemble more as the years roll on) and the sign your moon was in (receptive nature) .. Just reading into this, the meaning of them and pondering them can take you quite deep...

 

Perhaps, but it is actually, comparative to 'real astrology' , rather shallow modern and pop .  The Sun sign importance is relatively new and an expression of the modern western view of the psyche as ego based .

(This 'innovation' came about last century where a popular astrologer decided the Sun / sign thing was important , guess what , he was 'a Leo ' 0 ruled by the Sun -   and called himself Leo  ).

 

The ascendant used to be the most important and not even what sign  (or what sign the sun was in ) , but what planet was nearest the ascendant ( and even with a sign on the ascendant one would look at the ruling planet of that sign on the ascendant  and any actual planet there would cancel any  sign related planet there . Constellations and asterisms  where mostly used for another purpose . 

 

It was and is all about the angular relationship of the 'planets' (including Sun and Moon ) in relation to earth . and the main sectors  about the earth  (houses , which again copy the influence of the houses ) eg  Asc, MH, Desc. , IC ..... hence the importance of the ascendant  ( 0 degrees) in the chart .  Its the aspects that give important info , and using the natal ones with the current ones gives us the transits .

 

Then there is the question of tropical or sideral if you are going to use constellations .  Again constellations mostly relate to seasonal movements and the results here in nature , hence its importance as an 'agricultural clock' , then by reason it MUST be tropical  (as that is set on the equnoxes m, which define the seasons) . So then we are left with the question; what uses do sideral signs have ?

 

TBF though it helped me as I already had an interest in astrology since a teenager and had thought a great deal about family and their signs over the years. That was what really heled the chart come to life for me. Particular reading into my Mom and Dads charts and appreciating how that impacted my predispositions...

 

The stars and planets are huge, and although we cannot see them their forces certainly act upon us. It can be an interesting journey having a luck. 

 

Life is a bit like sailing in this sense, you could sail any where or walk,,, but when you look at very detailed maps you will look at the experience of sailing very differently. Hope that hasn't butchered it too much for you. Hopefully Nungali can bring some more clarity, he is a bit better at arranging his thoughts in words thatn I currently am,, currently!!

 

This bit about the map is great .... exactly !     I will quote from my paper on maps (of consciousness ) and number ;

 

" This has been a basic introduction to some of the concepts behind ‘psychological maps’ or ‘models of realities’ using number. We can see how the natural world uses divisions of four (which is generated, by esoteric number theory from triplicity, which in turn is generated from duality, unity and originally, no-thing). The reason we study such maps or schema is, not to confuse the map with the territory but a way of helping to understand and hence, in some cases, predict the territory. A person exploring their own psyche without a map is as lost as an explorer in a strange country. He will eventually be able to make up a map from his experience but most of his time will be used up in that. The idea of spiritual, religious, psychological or cosmological maps is that they show us forces inherent in nature and allow us to figure out territory we may be unfamiliar with by applying natural principles or laws. Any laws, principles, ‘discoveries’ or systems we follow that are not based on or attuned with a process in nature come from an unrealistic human  ‘head trip’ that has not been balanced by the other four ‘worlds’. "

 

 

 

Edited December 1 by Nungali

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, tianzhang said:

Yeah I looked through all of those as well, none of them really match me. I am a Leo supposedly and to be honest none of these traits really match me as a person, neither did any of the other signs you mentioned. 

 

There we have it !    What does 'I am a Leo ' mean ? Its simplistic, pop, modern astrology .  Crap IMO .  How could we define the complexity and nature of your psyche in one word ?   It probably means someone told you " you are a Leo" . It means when you where born the Sun might have been in the  house of Leo (and nothing to do with the constellation of Leo in the sky) .

 

And the 'signs you mentioned'  may not match you at all  as real astrology is about the complex mandala that is made up by your unique planetary  aspects and arrangements .

 

If one wants to seriously investigate the self , use a serious system and serious mapping .  If you think about it, modern pop money making astrology is NOT going to help you do that .

 

Its the same with many  esoteric arts ; take tarot for example , its use is far beyond any mere silly 'fortune telling ' , yet 90% of people use it for just that  ( what will my upcoming holiday be like? ... does so and so love me ? , how can I get money ?  )  and it often does not work , unless its for the gullible who are easily fooled ... while its use that does have immense value mostly goes unnoticed and unused. 

 

Tis 'the way of the world' ...  the 'profane world '.

[Thrice Daily]

You know what , reading this made me remember something about doing the charts. 

 

I read a lot in that week or two and you know what , almost everything I read taught me something about personality and character in general as well as specifically related to myself and others...

 

I think just in terms of raining awareness it is a brilliant subject to spend some time with. It colours understanding about the world around you and your place in it. Even if you just start reading it for leisure. Highly satisfying aspect I completely forgotten about.

[Thrice Daily]

52 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

There we have it !    What does 'I am a Leo ' mean ? Its simplistic, pop, modern astrology .  Crap IMO .  How could we define the complexity and nature of your psyche in one word ?   It probably means someone told you " you are a Leo" . It means when you where born the Sun might have been in the  house of Leo (and nothing to do with the constellation of Leo in the sky) .

 

And the 'signs you mentioned'  may not match you at all  as real astrology is about the complex mandala that is made up by your unique planetary  aspects and arrangements .

 

If one wants to seriously investigate the self , use a serious system and serious mapping .  If you think about it, modern pop money making astrology is NOT going to help you do that .

 

Its the same with many  esoteric arts ; take tarot for example , its use is far beyond any mere silly 'fortune telling ' , yet 90% of people use it for just that  ( what will my upcoming holiday be like? ... does so and so love me ? , how can I get money ?  )  and it often does not work , unless its for the gullible who are easily fooled ... while its use that does have immense value mostly goes unnoticed and unused. 

 

Tis 'the way of the world' ...  the 'profane world '.

To be fair though, the modern way is a massive shortcut to get the actual chart printed off...

 

It saves a lot of work, but maybe dilutes the worth of it as it takes 5 minutes to get... 

Astrology as a story from Aries to Pisces is an interesting first angle to take,

the procession through each element too,

and looking at the 3 decans for each sign, very very insightful.

 

I's worth having the chart though if you haven't got the impetus to do it yourself. That is the starting place really though. Learning to interpret it bit at a time is a glorious process..

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

The ascendant used to be the most important and not even what sign  (or what sign the sun was in ) , but what planet was nearest the ascendant ( and even with a sign on the ascendant one would look at the ruling planet of that sign on the ascendant  and any actual planet there would cancel any  sign related planet there . Constellations and asterisms  where mostly used for another purpose . 

Cool right , I have Jupiter real close in Scorpio... I was told this is particularly awesome.  I like hearing stuff like that 

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

" This has been a basic introduction to some of the concepts behind ‘psychological maps’ or ‘models of realities’ using number. We can see how the natural world uses divisions of four (which is generated, by esoteric number theory from triplicity, which in turn is generated from duality, unity and originally, no-thing). The reason we study such maps or schema is, not to confuse the map with the territory but a way of helping to understand and hence, in some cases, predict the territory. A person exploring their own psyche without a map is as lost as an explorer in a strange country. He will eventually be able to make up a map from his experience but most of his time will be used up in that. The idea of spiritual, religious, psychological or cosmological maps is that they show us forces inherent in nature and allow us to figure out territory we may be unfamiliar with by applying natural principles or laws. Any laws, principles, ‘discoveries’ or systems we follow that are not based on or attuned with a process in nature come from an unrealistic human  ‘head trip’ that has not been balanced by the other four ‘worlds’. "

 

Excellent

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

To be fair though, the modern way is a massive shortcut to get the actual chart printed off...

 

In a way, yes.  But if you use a site like 'astrodienst'  it offers a variety of settings to make different types of charts .  Personally , I cant see a 'short cut'  as validly being able  to map my psyche .

 

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

It saves a lot of work, but maybe dilutes the worth of it as it takes 5 minutes to get... 

 

I think that said it all . 

 

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Astrology as a story from Aries to Pisces is an interesting first angle to take,

 

Indeed, but that is something different . And also that would only be a part of the story ; ie, the ecliptic constellations .  But ALL the constellations come together to make the full story .  Eg, why is the Dog ( Canis) nipping at the hunters heels  ( Orion ) as he tries to spear the Hydra ?

 

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

the procession through each element too,

and looking at the 3 decans for each sign, very very insightful.

 

And more helpful if one realizes that the  3/4 pattern is not just in astrology but permeates the whole of nature and manifestation 

( eg . see my paper   ' Three in One ' in my PP section )

 

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

 

I's worth having the chart though if you haven't got the impetus to do it yourself. That is the starting place really though. Learning to interpret it bit at a time is a glorious process..

 

 

 

Agreed .  But I have noticed that still, people with a chart only look at the basics , unless trained to look at the aspects and angular relationships , most see it as a confusing 'mandala ' of obscurity .   .... which might be a good definition of how most see the  'normal' human psyche .      

[Thrice Daily]

Deep… I’m very interested at the moment in and new research into photons, dna and neurons of the body.

 

I heard recently that the heart has at least 40,000 Neurons never thought to be there before, meaning we discovered the heart being a mind of its own is very very literal…

 

Of course the Ancients already knew this. New discoveries are really starting to explain the phenomena of love and how certain relationships can have such an effect on us… 

Even being capable of changing our physical makeup and ability to express our dna in certain ways (or close it up)

 

I’m very interested in this… 

 

Just finished listening to a fascinating documentary on it today… 

 

The Ancients already had it, the Alchemists of old knew it all along x

 

You might like this Doc, even just having it on in the background sometime. It’s gets better as you listen, starts a bit slow…

[tianzhang]

On 12/1/2024 at 5:22 PM, Nungali said:

 

There we have it !    What does 'I am a Leo ' mean ? Its simplistic, pop, modern astrology .  Crap IMO .  How could we define the complexity and nature of your psyche in one word ?   It probably means someone told you " you are a Leo" . It means when you where born the Sun might have been in the  house of Leo (and nothing to do with the constellation of Leo in the sky) .

 

And the 'signs you mentioned'  may not match you at all  as real astrology is about the complex mandala that is made up by your unique planetary  aspects and arrangements .

 

If one wants to seriously investigate the self , use a serious system and serious mapping .  If you think about it, modern pop money making astrology is NOT going to help you do that .

 

Its the same with many  esoteric arts ; take tarot for example , its use is far beyond any mere silly 'fortune telling ' , yet 90% of people use it for just that  ( what will my upcoming holiday be like? ... does so and so love me ? , how can I get money ?  )  and it often does not work , unless its for the gullible who are easily fooled ... while its use that does have immense value mostly goes unnoticed and unused. 

 

Tis 'the way of the world' ...  the 'profane world '.

 

On 12/1/2024 at 4:47 PM, Nungali said:

 

 

Actually the charts I got were fairly in depth, can give you a link if you'd like one of them was from an accredited institute backed by the Dalai Lama. The Tibetan one obviously didn't use Western labels, but that one was EVEN MORE INACCURATE than all of the other ones.

Also the insidious soul engine part was my own extrapolation I don't know if there's an after ife, butt if there is I feel like there might be something malicious trying to trap you here. Anyways I get what you say about the chart, but from every chart I've received almost all of them seem like raw crap that is nothing close to my life, they all say 'you're probably a very academically talented person' when I never was, not even close. 

It also saids I am successful with love, when I've never even had a girlfriend and am likely to die alone.

[dontknwmucboutanythng]

Silent Thunder and Nungali said to authenticate/test the unbodied in earlier part of this thread.

 

I am told recently that do not try to contact loved one departed spirit.  If they already crossed-over or moved-on (is crossed-over or moved-on the same?) they cannot response.  Regardless, there are bad spirits who can read mind so it's not possible to test by asking questions that only the tester and departed loved ones would know. Is this true?

 

Thanks again.

[Nungali]

As long as you dont know it is true , otherwise it could be just your own memories reflected or being used .

 

Ideally , they would tell you something you did not know  , about themselves perhaps ,and after that when you checked  and found out it was true .... well, then you would have to find an explanation for that one .  One can find such alternative explanations, but often they are more fantastical or equally as 'paranormal' as  the idea of  contact with the departed  was in the first place  .